[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[UnthinkableThinker]

Deadly reentry causes massive fps drop.

Anyone else experiencing this?

I dont recall that i had to deal with it when i tested it in 0.22

Is it during the reentry itself, with the flames and all? If it is, turn your Aerodinamic FX bar down. If not, try to check for your mods to see if they're all 0.23 compatible.

[-Velocity-]

Is there something wrong with the Mk1 command pod? Or am I just doing something wrong? I'm trying Deadly Reentry combined with the BTSM career mod. My first flight with the Mk 1 was an equatorial orbital flight, apoapsis of like, 120 km. I set up a periapsis of 35 km and survived, no problem.

My second flight, I put Jeb into an orbit inclined at 45 degrees. The apoapsis is around 120 km again, but no matter what periapsis I use, the Mk 1 command pod always explodes, as it heats up to 1500 degrees C. I am setting the velocity reference to "Surface", and keeping the pod oriented to within a couple degrees of being perfectly in the retrograde orientation- so that the atmosphere hits the spacecraft almost perfectly perpendicular to the heat shield.

I've tried periapsis' of 25 km, 30 km, 40 km, 45 km, and 50 km. The command pod always overheats and explodes. The ablation shielding is still well up in the 200s (out of 250) when the pod explodes. Again, as far as I can tell (I'm using a "large" sized flight UI), I am keeping the heat shield perfectly oriented into the incoming atmosphere, as I am using the surface reference, and the atmosphere is moving with the surface.

What's so confusing to me is why this is happening now, and not the previous flight?!?! I didn't really change anything, not that I know of.

Is Jeb just lost?

Also, question- can you stack heat shields and get like, double shielding? So that the first one overheats, explodes, and then you start on the next one?

[AbeS]

you can stack shields, looks ugly though

[-Velocity-]

Yup, just tried again with the Mk1 command pod. I was perfectly aligned with the incoming atmosphere. I did an aerobrake for like, 1/3 of an orbit at 50-60 km before I really began to re-enter. It still overheated and blew up.

[Starwaster]

How exactly do I add the heatshield module to a heatshield part mod that came out before DRE that I found recently?

This is from a 1.25m shield

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleHeatShield
		direction = 0, -1, 0 // bottom of pod
		reflective = 0.05 // 5% of heat is ignored at correct angle
		ablative = AblativeShielding
		loss
		{ // loss is based on the shockwave temperature (also based on density)
			key = 650 0 // start ablating at 650 degrees C
			key = 1000 64 // peak ablation at 1000 degrees C
			key = 3000 80 // max ablation at 3000 degrees C
		}
		dissipation
		{ // dissipation is based on the part's current temperature
				key = 300 0 // begin ablating at 300 degrees C
				key = 500 360 // maximum dissipation at 500 degrees C
		}
	}
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = AblativeShielding
		amount = 250
		maxAmount = 250
	}

Larger shields should have more (amount/maxAmount) of the resource. I seem to recall that the value of the second key goes down for larger shields? Look in the mod's parts folder and look at some of the part.cfg files to see what they do.

If you use Real Solar System then the second key should be 800 instead of 500! (see the other code sample at the very end of my reply to Velocity, that will make shields RSS compatible across the board with the caveat that I'm a bit worried that it's overpowered since I'm not 100% sure how dissipation works

Is there something wrong with the Mk1 command pod? Or am I just doing something wrong? I'm trying Deadly Reentry combined with the BTSM career mod. My first flight with the Mk 1 was an equatorial orbital flight, apoapsis of like, 120 km. I set up a periapsis of 35 km and survived, no problem.

My second flight, I put Jeb into an orbit inclined at 45 degrees. The apoapsis is around 120 km again, but no matter what periapsis I use, the Mk 1 command pod always explodes, as it heats up to 1500 degrees C. I am setting the velocity reference to "Surface", and keeping the pod oriented to within a couple degrees of being perfectly in the retrograde orientation- so that the atmosphere hits the spacecraft almost perfectly perpendicular to the heat shield.

I've tried periapsis' of 25 km, 30 km, 40 km, 45 km, and 50 km. The command pod always overheats and explodes. The ablation shielding is still well up in the 200s (out of 250) when the pod explodes. Again, as far as I can tell (I'm using a "large" sized flight UI), I am keeping the heat shield perfectly oriented into the incoming atmosphere, as I am using the surface reference, and the atmosphere is moving with the surface.

What's so confusing to me is why this is happening now, and not the previous flight?!?! I didn't really change anything, not that I know of.

Is Jeb just lost?

Also, question- can you stack heat shields and get like, double shielding? So that the first one overheats, explodes, and then you start on the next one?

Don't come in exactly retrograde.

Note how it's pitched up. You can pitch up even more, such that the side of the capsule is even with the wake. That will also help with g-forces especially. When used with FAR you can also generate lift that way so if you're coming in too hot and fast you can skip out of the atmosphere, or at least back up into the upper atmosphere. The benefit of that is that you're spreading out your braking in stages instead of all at once. If using FAR though it's kind of tough to pitch if you don't have either RCS, some weight to offset your center of mass or an airbrake. (I like to put a B9 airbrake on the top edge of my capsule, right between the cockpit viewports)

Also note what I said above about Real SOlar System. If you're using that then you need your shield beefed up a bit as described.

This bit of code will do that for all shields you have installed

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]
	{
		!dissipation
		dissipation
		{
			key = 300 0
			key = 800 1260
		}
	}
}

Put that in a file named RSS_HeatShields.cfg (name doesn't matter, only that extension is .cfg). Note though that the value for the second key.... I'm not sure that is correct. It will work for RSS but I'm not sure it's balanced properly. I've noticed recently that some shield examples have varying values for the second key by shield size and I'm not clear on what the reason is. If Nathan were to chime in right now that would be great.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Starwaster

[Soda Popinski]

Quartered the heat production and RAPIERs still go kaboom at ~21k up. Though it says it is due to excessive G forces so I'm not sure it is ultimately heat related.

Did you do it at both areas in the file?

[NathanKell]

DREC does not care about part size when calculating temperature. So a small shield will gain just as much heat as a large shield (true for any part) when reentering. That is, it tracks temperature, not total heat energy.

In real life, larger shields obviously need more shielding. To simulate this in DREC, large shields (with more shielding) are less effective per unit of shielding since what's tracked is not loss of energy but loss in part temperature. Thus they have higher loss rates and (since loss in temperature = shield_loss * dissipation) lower dissipation rates.

So Starwaster, your tweak will make larger shields essentially invulnerable.

NOTE: All this will change when I rewrite DREC per posts upthread...

[Starwaster]

DREC does not care about part size when calculating temperature. So a small shield will gain just as much heat as a large shield (true for any part) when reentering. That is, it tracks temperature, not total heat energy.

In real life, larger shields obviously need more shielding. To simulate this in DREC, large shields (with more shielding) are less effective per unit of shielding since what's tracked is not loss of energy but loss in part temperature. Thus they have higher loss rates and (since loss in temperature = shield_loss * dissipation) lower dissipation rates.

So Starwaster, your tweak will make larger shields essentially invulnerable.

NOTE: All this will change when I rewrite DREC per posts upthread...

Ok, that's what I was afraid of.

I don't see a way to definitely determine shield size, unless it's part of the name and there's no guarantee of catching all cases.

So what would a good overall value be? (assuming the key of 800 is correct... not sure where I got 1260 for the value)

[yeliabmit]

After deleting and re-installing DRE, and starting both a new sandbox and career game to check, I guess I should report that all my heatshields except the 2.5 m shield for the Pod MK 1-2 no longer appear in the VAB or on any of my craft. One of my existing vessels was removed from one of my existing games because it had a 1.25m shield on it. It is truly odd that only the shield for the MK 1-2 appears. The ablative function and the ejection function for that shield both work normally. The models are being loaded on start, and I can't find anything in the logs mentioning anything unusual about the DRE parts. I have the following numerous mods installed (all compatible with 0.23):

000_Toolbar

AIES_Areospace (legs and solar panels only)

BoulderCo (City Lights and Texture Compression)

DRE

EnhancedNavBall

FAR

Firespitter (DLL only)

HexCans

HullCameraVDS

RasterPropMonitor

KAS

KerbalJointReinforcement

Kerbaltek (Hyperedit)

Kerbpaint

Kethane

Klockheed_Martin (Tanks and shoulder mounts only)(

Kommit_Nucleonics

KSPX

KWRocketry

MagicSmokeIndustries (Plugins and Sounds only)

MechJeb2RPM

NavyFish (Docking Alignment Interface)

Nothke_DROMOMAN

NothkeSerCom

RemoteTech2

RLA_PowerGeneration

RLA_Stockalike

SafeChute

SCANsat

SCANsatRPM

SelectRoot

Squad (Obvs)

TextureReplacer

ThunderAerospace (TAC Fuel Balancer)

TreeLoader

TriggerTech (Kerbal Alarm Clock and Alternate Resource Panel)

VOID

WarpPlugin

ExsurgentEngineering.dll

ModuleManager_1_5_6.dll

That's a lot of mods, but they all play fine together. I have been using them without incident for some time now, but just since 0.23 the heatshields don't show up anymore. It's basically requiring me to design return vehicles that don't use the MK 1-2 pod with extra fuel and engines that slow spacecraft to negate re-entry heating, or using a 1-Kerbal pod with a 2.5m heatshield. Certainly possible, and kind of amusing for a time, but inefficient.

[yeliabmit]

Update! I went and uninstalled all the mods except DRE, and then slowly added mods until I isolated the culprit: TextureReplacer. For some reason unknown, TextureReplacer makes the heatshields disappear from the VAB and R&D facilities. Kind of a shame, because it's quite a nice mod. I will now go report this to the TextureReplacer dev, but I thought you might find it useful to know.

[Niels]

I'm installed bunch of mods including RSS, FAR and DRE. After first launch I've stumbled upon this

After checking whole list of my mods I found out that this is caused by DRE installation on some of the pods and cores:

Mk1 Cockpit

Mk3 Cockpit

Command pod Mk1

Stayputnik Mk1

Somehow this bug tied to the fact that said modules have heat shielding. If I build something with other modules and then take command from these shielded, then bug shows up again.

Is there solution for this problem?

[kiwiak]

Is it during the reentry itself, with the flames and all? If it is, turn your Aerodinamic FX bar down. If not, try to check for your mods to see if they're all 0.23 compatible.

It happens all the time (except time in VAB). Maybe its something with mods then. How can i check all of them?

[Centurionsc2]

I'm having a very similar problem with fps loss with larger rockets all the time. As a test I tried the Kerbal X stock rocket without any mods and with DRE and there wasn't any lag with vanilla. Just to be clear about the installation, when using 7zip, is it alright to click and drag the DRE folder and module manager files to the GameData folder, or should I extract them them copy paste?

Thanks in advance

[NathanKell]

Starwaster: doesn't MM support checking a minimum for a value? Then you could have a config for RESOURCE ablative > 1000, one for >500, and one for >100, and one for just having the resource. (You'd do it in the opposite order, for correct order of operations). That'll determine what loss_rate and dissipation values to apply.

You want max loss_rate * max dissipation ~= 96,000 for [quite] safe RSS reentries, probably even lunar reentries, but obviously you want some variation, so weaker shields would have lower values and lunar or interplanetary shields would have higher. That will give you your effective temperature loss multiplier. Amount of ablative shielding determines how long you can keep that up; a loss_rate of 66% to 100% of your resource quantity is what's used curently (the small shield at 100%, the 3.75 at less than 66%)

Niels, first of all looks like you're using an outdated version of RSS. Are you sure all your mods are up to date?

kiwiak: remove half your mods. If problem goes away, add half of what you removed back. If problem persists, remove half of what remains. Repeat until found. Binary search.

[Read have Read]

Parts inside KW rocketry fairings are blowing up from high temperatures, while the fairing remains for much longer than dinky solar panels. Does DR still use ray casting?

[Niels]

All mods that I'm using are downloaded just yesterday:

000_Toolbar

BoulderCo

DeadlyReentry

ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads

FerramAerospaceResearch

HexCans

KAS

Keramzit

KerbalJointReinforcement

Kethane

LifeSupport

MagicSmokeIndustries

ProceduralDynamics

RealChute

RealFuels

RealismOverhaul

RealSolarSystem

RemoteTech2

Romfarer

RPL_Tweak_Pack

SovietEngines 1.0

StretchyTanks

TreeLoader

WarpPlugin

Looked up any configuration changes for "probeCoreSphere". Apart from Deadly Reentry only Realism Overhaul, RemoteTech and RPL_Tweaks are changing part's cfg. But they are also changing cfg's for other parts that lack heat shielding and do not cause craft to be considered as travelling 400m/s relative to surface. Bug replicates only while manning command parts with built-in heat shielding. Addition of other shielded parts causes none of that.

[Fred9001]

After deleting and re-installing DRE, and starting both a new sandbox and career game to check, I guess I should report that all my heatshields except the 2.5 m shield for the Pod MK 1-2 no longer appear in the VAB or on any of my craft. One of my existing vessels was removed from one of my existing games because it had a 1.25m shield on it. It is truly odd that only the shield for the MK 1-2 appears. The ablative function and the ejection function for that shield both work normally. The models are being loaded on start, and I can't find anything in the logs mentioning anything unusual about the DRE parts. I have the following numerous mods installed (all compatible with 0.23):

000_Toolbar

AIES_Areospace (legs and solar panels only)

BoulderCo (City Lights and Texture Compression)

DRE

EnhancedNavBall

FAR

Firespitter (DLL only)

HexCans

HullCameraVDS

RasterPropMonitor

KAS

KerbalJointReinforcement

Kerbaltek (Hyperedit)

Kerbpaint

Kethane

Klockheed_Martin (Tanks and shoulder mounts only)(

Kommit_Nucleonics

KSPX

KWRocketry

MagicSmokeIndustries (Plugins and Sounds only)

MechJeb2RPM

NavyFish (Docking Alignment Interface)

Nothke_DROMOMAN

NothkeSerCom

RemoteTech2

RLA_PowerGeneration

RLA_Stockalike

SafeChute

SCANsat

SCANsatRPM

SelectRoot

Squad (Obvs)

TextureReplacer

ThunderAerospace (TAC Fuel Balancer)

TreeLoader

TriggerTech (Kerbal Alarm Clock and Alternate Resource Panel)

VOID

WarpPlugin

ExsurgentEngineering.dll

ModuleManager_1_5_6.dll

That's a lot of mods, but they all play fine together. I have been using them without incident for some time now, but just since 0.23 the heatshields don't show up anymore. It's basically requiring me to design return vehicles that don't use the MK 1-2 pod with extra fuel and engines that slow spacecraft to negate re-entry heating, or using a 1-Kerbal pod with a 2.5m heatshield. Certainly possible, and kind of amusing for a time, but inefficient.

Funny, I got any heatshield except the 2.5m one -.- (the one which I would need the most)

[Starwaster]

Starwaster: doesn't MM support checking a minimum for a value? Then you could have a config for RESOURCE ablative > 1000, one for >500, and one for >100, and one for just having the resource. (You'd do it in the opposite order, for correct order of operations). That'll determine what loss_rate and dissipation values to apply.

You want max loss_rate * max dissipation ~= 96,000 for [quite] safe RSS reentries, probably even lunar reentries, but obviously you want some variation, so weaker shields would have lower values and lunar or interplanetary shields would have higher. That will give you your effective temperature loss multiplier. Amount of ablative shielding determines how long you can keep that up; a loss_rate of 66% to 100% of your resource quantity is what's used curently (the small shield at 100%, the 3.75 at less than 66%)

I don't think it does support that, or it didn't last time I checked.

I made a blanket Ioncross patch once that added life support to pods for up to six kerbals and I had to do six individual checks for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 crew respectively.

[yeliabmit]

Funny, I got any heatshield except the 2.5m one -.- (the one which I would need the most)

When I posted the problem to the TextureReplacer thread, they pointed out that there had been a revision to the mod right after I downloaded it, as disappearing parts were a known bug. I installed the new iteration of the mod (0.12.1), and all the parts appear in the VAB now.

[celem]

Loving playing with DRE for the first time, great mod.

Got a design problem now though and wanted to ask some of you guys haunting this thread:

My usual early-career re-entry is the small pod with a science-jr under it, thermometers, solarpanels and such stud the sci-jr and I have to add a pair of radial chutes since the single top chute cant soft-land a pod/sci-jr. This is all well and good, but im having some serious issues getting my science back through the atmosphere now!

Specifically, no matter how well I chase the prograde marker I lose everything radially mounted to the sci-jr. I put a heatshield under it, so it itself is surviving the heat, but the things stuck to it just burn off (all my lovely science )

How do you normaly get around these issues with DRE guys? I recently picked up the 6S service compartment mod, which certainly seems to have some potential for protecting the little instruments, but what about the radial chutes (my sci-jrs all get destroyed on touchdown). Do I need to put everything like that onto the sloping sides of the capsule to get it out of the line of fire? Or can I put them slightly lopsided and use the capsule's shadow/wake/lee/whatever? Some guidance please!

Also, if it gets to the point I want to put landers on Kerbin (or other atmospheric bodies), does this now mean powered descents to stop legs from frying off rather than high-velocity aerobrakes??

[sarbian]

With .23 you can move your science result from the part to your command pod with a IVA Kerbal. So you can move all the result to your pod and then decouple your experiment stage.

[FenrirWolf]

My first science landers in a DRE career save generally consist of a pod with a modular girder section attached at the bottom. Attach radial parachutes and goo modules to the sides of the girder. Then put a science bay and/or heat shield under the girder. It makes for a nice, compact design that hides the modules and radial chutes from the heat.

[celem]

I was quite honestly forgetting the 0.23 EVA technique, which is odd, but there you go.

And thanks Fenrir, that girder worked beautifully for the chutes, i'm really looking forward to finding and unlocking a wider heatshield next. Feels wasteful to keep throwing my ECLSS O2 regenerators away to burn-up but they are too fat.

[Shad0wCatcher]

So is there any support whatsoever for AIES, RLA stockalike, and Novapunch parts? I'm currently paused in a game at 10 kilometers and 370 m/s vertical velocity with a craft which "burns up on re-entry". 2.1 g's of acceleration; purely vertical launch (because FAR absolutely destroys any 3.75 to 2.5 meter rockets I build that I attempt to launch). The payloads that are burning up are protected by NP fairings and additionally are 0.625 meter and 1 meter wide fuel tanks protected (literally sandwiched between) by a 1.25 meter science bay (the stock one) and another 1.25 meter fuel tank (that perplexingly also burns up...at 370 m/s.......AIES all black fuel tank). I'm going apoplectic with this rocket; all the parts that are burning up have 1450+ degree centigrade destruction temps. I'd really love to know just what the hell is going on, considering that the exterior isn't even reaching 350 degrees centigrade before things are exploding inside my fairings.

EDIT number 4: Figured out the issue. Kraken was hungry. Took out two of the four landers and the part count went down enough (took out 66 parts total; each lander was 32 parts plus two for the radial decouplers) the Kraken stopped wanting to eat the craft. Really really wish there were some way to have the game say something to the effect of "ERMAGERD KRAKEN INCOMING" versus having me scratch my head over nonsensical flight log messages.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Shad0wCatcher
x2 for more information; x1 because the does not equal that or which.

[NathanKell]

Read have read: Raycasting works off collision detection IIRC, and KW fairings, unlike procedural fairings, don't really have colliders.