[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[KoolBreeze420]

How can I toughen the KSO shuttles heat shielding as it is I can't deorbit either of the shuttles with out them exploding. I have tried over and over again using various reentry angles. usually what happens is the tail fins blow then the nose cone blows and then the whole ship goes. I think if I could toughen the nose cone and the tail fins i may be able to perform a successful reentry. I Can do it with any of the rockets with no problem but the shuttles blow up any help would be appreciated thanks..

[Boomerang]

How can I toughen the KSO shuttles heat shielding as it is I can't deorbit either of the shuttles with out them exploding. I have tried over and over again using various reentry angles. usually what happens is the tail fins blow then the nose cone blows and then the whole ship goes. I think if I could toughen the nose cone and the tail fins i may be able to perform a successful reentry. I Can do it with any of the rockets with no problem but the shuttles blow up any help would be appreciated thanks..

What's your periapsis before beginning reentry? Aiming between 30-35km on stock-sized Kerbin if you're reentering from LKO should keep the temperatures in a survivable range.

[camlost]

Has anyone brought down a Mk1-2 pod? Using RSS, RO, the pod has a 4m Mk1-2 heat shield. Reentry orbit was 120 x 60 km but the heat shield still burns up at ~ 50km @ 6-7km/s.

I see what's the problem. FAR did not correctly calculate the Cd of that particular heat shield. Should be ~0.35 but is 0.02. I used another 4m shield everything seems fine.

[Starwaster]

How can I toughen the KSO shuttles heat shielding as it is I can't deorbit either of the shuttles with out them exploding. I have tried over and over again using various reentry angles. usually what happens is the tail fins blow then the nose cone blows and then the whole ship goes. I think if I could toughen the nose cone and the tail fins i may be able to perform a successful reentry. I Can do it with any of the rockets with no problem but the shuttles blow up any help would be appreciated thanks..

Try downloading this config and dropping it somewhere in your GameData folder. (if you have a tweaks folder that you maintain for ModuleManager patches then that's the place for this)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ys4koesu5zdxrq9/dre_KSO.SW.cfg?dl=1

For the KSO25

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4j4r99yb1bjp8wz/kso25_dre.cfg?dl=1

PLEASE note that the one for the KSO25 is NOT a patch. It's meant to replace the file that comes with KSO (it's GameData/KSO/FX/kso25_dre.cfg). Eventually I'll make a patch version of that one.

The main differences with these files is that they remove the ablative shielding resource and converts it entirely to reflection based system and changes the reflection vector to reward proper shuttle reentry orientation. (the 'stock' DRE configs that KSO comes with actually only gave you full shielding if your shuttle was completely perpendicular to the velocity vector. So you're faced with either a loss of control or weaker shielding)

When used with Real Solar System, the KSO25 version enjoys a massive increase in reflection strength and uses a simulated 'heat capacity', which if overloaded can result in the destruction of that part. (does this using a massless resource that only exists if Real Solar System is installed)

One of the benefits here is that by not using ablative, when using a non-stock aerodynamics system, the mass of the shuttles goes down so drag will be more effective in slowing the shuttles. Their performance as gliders should also improve somewhat.

I see what's the problem. FAR did not correctly calculate the Cd of that particular heat shield. Should be ~0.35 but is 0.02. I used another 4m shield everything seems fine.

So you're saying the problem was actually that you weren't decelerating enough in the upper atmosphere? What shield is that? Not one of the DRE shields since none of them are 4m. (unless you mean the 3.75m part)

[KoolBreeze420]

What's your periapsis before beginning reentry? Aiming between 30-35km on stock-sized Kerbin if you're reentering from LKO should keep the temperatures in a survivable range.

I,ve tried various heights from 20 to none have not tried higher then 20 I don't think since I bounced off the atmosphere. I either descend to fast and not enough lift to keep the nose up or burn for to long either way I have not been able to land one of these KSO shuttles since adding deadly rentry cont I have watched a the few videos out there but they seem to leave out the real important info as the perapisis height angle pitch etc.. STarwasher gave me a couple files I am going to try them out right away and see if I have better luck I really like the shuttles and I like the deadly reentry but if I can't nail the landings I will have to give one of the mods up..

[Wanderfound]

I,ve tried various heights from 20 to none have not tried higher then 20 I don't think since I bounced off the atmosphere. I either descend to fast and not enough lift to keep the nose up or burn for to long either way I have not been able to land one of these KSO shuttles since adding deadly rentry cont I have watched a the few videos out there but they seem to leave out the real important info as the perapisis height angle pitch etc.. STarwasher gave me a couple files I am going to try them out right away and see if I have better luck I really like the shuttles and I like the deadly reentry but if I can't nail the landings I will have to give one of the mods up..

It sounds like you're just coming in too steep. Set periapsis to 30km, then use your control surfaces to hold yourself at that altitude until you've slowed enough to descend further.

[Starman4308]

I,ve tried various heights from 20 to none have not tried higher then 20 I don't think since I bounced off the atmosphere.

And there's your problem: you are coming in way too steep. In my experience, setting periapsis halfway into atmosphere is a decent guideline, and I often use even shallower reentries. You kind of want to bounce: you want to shed as much velocity as possible in relatively thin upper atmosphere. Trajectories is a pretty decent mod for figuring out where you will reenter, though it doesn't work with stock lift (only FAR/NEAR), and I'm not sure it models loss of ablative material. The second caveat should not be a big deal, because if you're doing reentry right, by the time you start losing buckets of ablative material, you've already shed most of your speed.

[Soda Popinski]

Am I and Meero Biro doing something wrong here? We're both getting parachute failure due to "Excessive Heat."

It's happening with the stock mk 16 with Biro, and with RealChutes radial (at least) with me. I'm popping my chutes under 600 m/s and still getting the failure - parachutes are also well under what I would consider hot (~30°C).

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/96582-MK-16-and-Deadly-ReEntry-Question

All of this use to work for me, but I took a bit of a hiatus and came back with 0.25, so I may be doing something horribly wrong.

[smunisto]

Yup, I do happen to lose my chutes from time to time too. I thought it's due to speed, but now that you mentioned it - seems like I am losing them due to heat.

[Tripod27]

check what the temperature limit on the chutes are

I know on the B9 pack pretty much all the engines have a maximum temp of 0.5 degrees, so they explode as soon as the ship loads

[Jacke]

Reentries with current DR are now more like real-life ones. A highly simplified calculation in an aerospace book I read showed that successful reentries start with an approach velocity less that 1 degree from horizontal. In KSP with DR 6.1+ I found reentries from both LKO and returning from Mun needed periapsis no lower than 30km or the craft burned up.

[KoolBreeze420]

Try downloading this config and dropping it somewhere in your GameData folder. (if you have a tweaks folder that you maintain for ModuleManager patches then that's the place for this)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ys4koesu5zdxrq9/dre_KSO.SW.cfg?dl=1

For the KSO25

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4j4r99yb1bjp8wz/kso25_dre.cfg?dl=1

PLEASE note that the one for the KSO25 is NOT a patch. It's meant to replace the file that comes with KSO (it's GameData/KSO/FX/kso25_dre.cfg). Eventually I'll make a patch version of that one.

The main differences with these files is that they remove the ablative shielding resource and converts it entirely to reflection based system and changes the reflection vector to reward proper shuttle reentry orientation. (the 'stock' DRE configs that KSO comes with actually only gave you full shielding if your shuttle was completely perpendicular to the velocity vector. So you're faced with either a loss of control or weaker shielding)

When used with Real Solar System, the KSO25 version enjoys a massive increase in reflection strength and uses a simulated 'heat capacity', which if overloaded can result in the destruction of that part. (does this using a massless resource that only exists if Real Solar System is installed)

One of the benefits here is that by not using ablative, when using a non-stock aerodynamics system, the mass of the shuttles goes down so drag will be more effective in slowing the shuttles. Their performance as gliders should also improve somewhat.

So you're saying the problem was actually that you weren't decelerating enough in the upper atmosphere? What shield is that? Not one of the DRE shields since none of them are 4m. (unless you mean the 3.75m part)

Thankyou so much I have now successfully reentered the atmosphere with both KSO shuttles, now I Can practice hitting the runway am able to use parachutes now without them all exploding to land in case i don t hit the runway so I can complete contracts and not just reload the same landing over and over thank you so much you made me so happy...

[KoolBreeze420]

It sounds like you're just coming in too steep. Set periapsis to 30km, then use your control surfaces to hold yourself at that altitude until you've slowed enough to descend further.

So set the perapsis at 30km when I start hitting the atmosphere what speed and angle should I be at although with the files Star gave me it's much easier to renter but still am interested in what I am doing wrong and why I cant reenter without exploding...

[KoolBreeze420]

And there's your problem: you are coming in way too steep. In my experience, setting periapsis halfway into atmosphere is a decent guideline, and I often use even shallower reentries. You kind of want to bounce: you want to shed as much velocity as possible in relatively thin upper atmosphere. Trajectories is a pretty decent mod for figuring out where you will reenter, though it doesn't work with stock lift (only FAR/NEAR), and I'm not sure it models loss of ablative material. The second caveat should not be a big deal, because if you're doing reentry right, by the time you start losing buckets of ablative material, you've already shed most of your speed.

When you say halfway into atmosphere are you talking about the placement of the green thing on the ball I find if I come in and the green thing is over the atmosphere in the ball I burn for too long and blow up if it's under the line then I lose lift and cant hold pitch and blow up. What is the perapsis at when you reenter and does the apsosis height matter at all?

[Starwaster]

When you say halfway into atmosphere are you talking about the placement of the green thing on the ball I find if I come in and the green thing is over the atmosphere in the ball I burn for too long and blow up if it's under the line then I lose lift and cant hold pitch and blow up. What is the perapsis at when you reenter and does the apsosis height matter at all?

By halfway he means the periapsis should be halfway in. For instance, stock is ~70km max atmosphere altitude (69.x actually) so you'd put periapsis at about 35km by his rationale.

Not sure that would work in RSS.... it could I guess. Depending on the craft

[Sandermatt]

I tend to loose my parachute before actually deploying itm what could my problem be? It is attached on top of the capsule and I enter with the opposite direction.

[Starwaster]

I tend to loose my parachute before actually deploying itm what could my problem be? It is attached on top of the capsule and I enter with the opposite direction.

Your problem is that either you have not downloaded DRE version 6.2.1 and/or you are deploying your chutes too early and the air outsided is thousands of degrees Kelvin and they are burning up. Wait until you are lower.

FYI, Apollo deployed its drogue chutes at 7km altitude and main chutes at ~3km.

[Starman4308]

By halfway he means the periapsis should be halfway in. For instance, stock is ~70km max atmosphere altitude (69.x actually) so you'd put periapsis at about 35km by his rationale.

Not sure that would work in RSS.... it could I guess. Depending on the craft

I did mostly play with a blatantly reduced heat transfer coefficient (10-11) using the 6.4x RSS config so that I didn't have to bother with the RO heatshields: whether or not I should've set it higher is up to debate. I did usually tend towards going shallower than 50% atmosphere in any event.

When you say halfway into atmosphere are you talking about the placement of the green thing on the ball I find if I come in and the green thing is over the atmosphere in the ball I burn for too long and blow up if it's under the line then I lose lift and cant hold pitch and blow up. What is the perapsis at when you reenter and does the apsosis height matter at all?

As to apoapsis: maybe I'm wrong, but it seems sometimes you can be gentler with a high apoapsis if you do it right and "bounce" off your periapsis, killing even more velocity in upper atmosphere. In any case, just remember: do your level best to bleed off as much speed in the thin upper atmosphere as possible, because the lower atmosphere will kill you if you are still moving at anything remotely resembling orbital velocity. There is simply that much more air to transfer thermal energy and bleed away the ablative heat shielding.

To clear up one point: what would burn your hand faster, near-vacuum at 1000 degrees Celsius, or a pot of boiling water at 100 degrees Celsius? It isn't the near-vacuum, because there is so little matter to transfer heat there.

[Sandermatt]

Your problem is that either you have not downloaded DRE version 6.2.1 and/or you are deploying your chutes too early and the air outsided is thousands of degrees Kelvin and they are burning up. Wait until you are lower.

FYI, Apollo deployed its drogue chutes at 7km altitude and main chutes at ~3km.

I think I tried to deploy below 2km, but the chutes looked destroyed already before even trying to deplay. I will check my version.

[Soda Popinski]

Yup, I do happen to lose my chutes from time to time too. I thought it's due to speed, but now that you mentioned it - seems like I am losing them due to heat.

Did some testing with 4 radials (RealChute). They all failed due to "excessive heat" above 400 m/s. I set up 4 successive stages with 4 radial parachutes. At 450 m/s, still failed, even at 430 m/s, I think, they failed.

[Xyd]

Is there a reason why this doesn't support 64 bit?

Just curious as I've recently returned to playing KSP and have not tried it out yet on 64 bit, so was wondering the reasons behind the incompatibility?

[endl]

can i get some advice for using this mod with SSTO plane's. currently while doing my speed run for orbital insertion i have stuff melting off like drag chutes, antenna, air brakes. is there anything i can do about this? it doesnt seem to matter which side i place these on they just burn off at some point.

[Wanderfound]

can i get some advice for using this mod with SSTO plane's. currently while doing my speed run for orbital insertion i have stuff melting off like drag chutes, antenna, air brakes. is there anything i can do about this? it doesnt seem to matter which side i place these on they just burn off at some point.

Fly higher.

Climb steeply to 15,000 or so, then level off and crank it up on the way to 25,000. Once you're approaching hypersonic, try to hold it above 25,000.

Kerbal Flight Data is very useful for temperature warnings.

[Wanderfound]

Is there a reason why this doesn't support 64 bit?

Just curious as I've recently returned to playing KSP and have not tried it out yet on 64 bit, so was wondering the reasons behind the incompatibility?

Windows 64-bit is an unstable POS. Many mods are refusing to support it as more trouble than it's worth.

[uraa]

I see what's the problem. FAR did not correctly calculate the Cd of that particular heat shield. Should be ~0.35 but is 0.02. I used another 4m shield everything seems fine.

I am experiencing same thing with shield for Mk1-2 pod (stock size Kerbin, FAR, KJR, DR and KER only). If I don't decouple shield, pod does not even slow down to subsonic speed before ground and if I decouple shield at low altitude (less then 5k), crew is almost always killed by excessive g force since pod immediately starts to break. Same trajectory with other shields from DR works without of problem.