[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starwaster]

Having an issue on Linux x64. Completely stock, fresh install. Cant attach any heatshields to anything it seems. With some work with the mouse i can get the parts to flash green, but its difficult.

Player.log

KSP.log

You're going to have to finesse them a little (assuming you're up to date on DRE and not on the very first release for some reason)

It's probably because the nodes are very close together on the shield. Drag just a little and it'll turn green. Sometimes it helps to make sure the cursor isnt over the part you're attaching to.

It was the stock service bay with vens stock revamp. Stock barometer aswell. Yes to FAR. My barometer issue

If it's been replaced with Ven's part then it's not stock anymore.

The problem is probably the animation. The service bay part uses ModuleCargoBay which for animated parts like that relies on knowing which animation state represents 'open' and 'closed'. Looking at that picture and seeing no convective flux I can tell you right now: That cargo bay thinks it is closed.

You're going to have to kick this over to Ven. Either he needs to fix the animation or he has to change the cargo bay module on the part so that its closedPosition has the proper value for 'closed'

Edited May 23, 2015 by Starwaster
value

[Psycho_zs]

OK, with this code numbers in cache are correct:

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] {
    MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{
        skinHeatConductivity = 1
        skinThicknessFactor = 0.01
        skinMaxTemp = 1900
    }
    @maxTemp=1900
}

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleStaticRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] {
    MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{
        skinHeatConductivity = 1
        skinThicknessFactor = 0.01
        skinMaxTemp = 1900
    }
    @maxTemp=1900
}

But radiators are still blowing up early, around 840K.

UrlConfig
{
name = radiator-universal-1
type = PART
parentUrl = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1
url = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1
PART
{
name = radiator-universal-1
module = Part
author = ChrisAdderley
mesh = radiator-universal-1.mu
rescaleFactor = 1
TechRequired = heatManagementSystems
entryCost = 14000
node_attach = 0.0, -0.00, 0.00, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0
cost = 3500
category = Utility
subcategory = 0
title = XR-550 Standardized Heat Radiator
manufacturer = Kerb Kastra Inc.
description = Attach this deployable heat radiator to cool parts.
attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1
mass = 0.19
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.2
angularDrag = 1
crashTolerance = 4
maxTemp = 1900
thermalMassModifier = 1.0
emissiveConstant = 1.0
heatConductivity = 0.001
bulkheadProfiles = srf
MODULE
{
name = ModuleGenericRadiator
animationName = Radiator_Extend
sunTracking = true
raycastTransformName = LinkRotator
pivotName = LinkRotator
isBreakable = true
HeatAnimation = RadiatorMediumUniversal_Heat
HeatTransformName = MediumUniversalRadiator
Emissive = 0.7
EmissiveExtended = 1.0
Area = 1.17
AreaExtended = 4.31
Radiation = 150
RadiationExtended = 1100
}
MODULE
{
name = BBModule
}
MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]
{
skinHeatConductivity = 1
skinThicknessFactor = 0.01
skinMaxTemp = 1900
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleAeroReentry
skinHeatConductivity = 0.12
}
MODULE
{
name = GeometryPartModule
}
MODULE
{
name = FARAeroPartModule
}
MODULE
{
name = FARPartModule
}
}
}

[Starwaster]

OK, with this code numbers in cache are correct:

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] {
    MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{
        skinHeatConductivity = 1
        skinThicknessFactor = 0.01
        skinMaxTemp = 1900
    }
    @maxTemp=1900
}

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleStaticRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] {
    MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{
        skinHeatConductivity = 1
        skinThicknessFactor = 0.01
        skinMaxTemp = 1900
    }
    @maxTemp=1900
}

But radiators are still blowing up early, around 840K.

UrlConfig
{
name = radiator-universal-1
type = PART
parentUrl = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1
url = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1
PART
{
name = radiator-universal-1
module = Part
author = ChrisAdderley
mesh = radiator-universal-1.mu
rescaleFactor = 1
TechRequired = heatManagementSystems
entryCost = 14000
node_attach = 0.0, -0.00, 0.00, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0
cost = 3500
category = Utility
subcategory = 0
title = XR-550 Standardized Heat Radiator
manufacturer = Kerb Kastra Inc.
description = Attach this deployable heat radiator to cool parts.
attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1
mass = 0.19
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.2
angularDrag = 1
crashTolerance = 4
maxTemp = 1900
thermalMassModifier = 1.0
emissiveConstant = 1.0
heatConductivity = 0.001
bulkheadProfiles = srf
MODULE
{
name = ModuleGenericRadiator
animationName = Radiator_Extend
sunTracking = true
raycastTransformName = LinkRotator
pivotName = LinkRotator
isBreakable = true
HeatAnimation = RadiatorMediumUniversal_Heat
HeatTransformName = MediumUniversalRadiator
Emissive = 0.7
EmissiveExtended = 1.0
Area = 1.17
AreaExtended = 4.31
Radiation = 150
RadiationExtended = 1100
}
MODULE
{
name = BBModule
}
MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]
{
skinHeatConductivity = 1
skinThicknessFactor = 0.01
skinMaxTemp = 1900
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleAeroReentry
skinHeatConductivity = 0.12
}
MODULE
{
name = GeometryPartModule
}
MODULE
{
name = FARAeroPartModule
}
MODULE
{
name = FARPartModule
}
}
}

That's wrong, that's not even close to what I gave you before.

You can't use something like:

MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]

because you are ADDING a module. That's why it's

MODULE
{
    name = ModuleAeroReentry
    (other stuff)
}

Edited May 23, 2015 by Starwaster

[Psycho_zs]

Oops, I should've copypasted it instead of editing...

Fixed that, there is only one moduleAeroReentry entry per radiator in cache now and it contains proper values.

But actual maxTemp is still low, around 700-800K

Other observations:

- Thinner skin is less conductive, despite conductivity still set to 1, difference between body and skin temp increases, so I ended up setting skinThicknessFactor = 0.99, this reduced difference to minimum. Radiators are all about skin anyway.

- When in timewarp, skin conductivity also failing (timewarps below 1000 of course). Inside heats up more with increasing warp. When timewarp is off, it slowly equalizes again.

- At max power radiators equalize sooner with about half of nominal temp.

GR-4 radiator at full power equilibrium with DRE:

temp 529K

skin temp 523K

rad area 2.62m^2

exp area 2.37m^2

thermal mass 64

rad flux -400

UrlConfig
{
name = radiator-conformal-2
type = PART
parentUrl = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2
url = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2
PART
{
name = radiator-conformal-2
module = Part
author = ChrisAdderley
mesh = radiator-conformal-2.mu
rescaleFactor = 1
TechRequired = nuclearPower
entryCost = 6400
node_attach = 0.107, -0.02, 0.00, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0
cost = 1600
category = Utility
subcategory = 0
title = GR-4 Conformal Heat Radiator
manufacturer = Kerb Kastria
description = A small conformal heat radiator designed uniquely for the MX-4 reactor. From the box inset: "Six shall be the number of thy radiators, and the number of thy radiators shall be six". What an eccentric way of putting it.
attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1
mass = 0.08
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.2
angularDrag = 1
crashTolerance = 8
maxTemp = 1900
breakingForce = 13
thermalMassModifier = 1.0
emissiveConstant = 1.0
heatConductivity = 0.001
MODULE
{
name = ModuleGenericRadiator
animationName = Radiator_Extend
sunTracking = true
raycastTransformName = Midlink
pivotName = Midlink
isBreakable = true
HeatAnimation = RadiatorMedium_Heat
HeatTransformName = MediumReactorRadiator
Emissive = 0.7
EmissiveExtended = 1.0
Area = 2.99
AreaExtended = 2.71
Radiation = 100
RadiationExtended = 450
}
MODULE
{
name = BBModule
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleAeroReentry
skinHeatConductivity = 1
skinThicknessFactor = 0.99
skinMaxTemp = 1900
}
MODULE
{
name = GeometryPartModule
}
MODULE
{
name = FARAeroPartModule
}
MODULE
{
name = FARPartModule
}
}
}

GR-4 radiator at full power equilibrium without DRE:

temp 1397K

thermal mass 64

rad flux -400

UrlConfig
{
name = radiator-conformal-2
type = PART
parentUrl = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2
url = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2
PART
{
name = radiator-conformal-2
module = Part
author = ChrisAdderley
mesh = radiator-conformal-2.mu
rescaleFactor = 1
TechRequired = nuclearPower
entryCost = 6400
node_attach = 0.107, -0.02, 0.00, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0
cost = 1600
category = Utility
subcategory = 0
title = GR-4 Conformal Heat Radiator
manufacturer = Kerb Kastria
description = A small conformal heat radiator designed uniquely for the MX-4 reactor. From the box inset: "Six shall be the number of thy radiators, and the number of thy radiators shall be six". What an eccentric way of putting it.
attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1
mass = 0.08
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.2
angularDrag = 1
crashTolerance = 8
maxTemp = 1900
breakingForce = 13
thermalMassModifier = 1.0
emissiveConstant = 1.0
heatConductivity = 0.001
MODULE
{
name = ModuleGenericRadiator
animationName = Radiator_Extend
sunTracking = true
raycastTransformName = Midlink
pivotName = Midlink
isBreakable = true
HeatAnimation = RadiatorMedium_Heat
HeatTransformName = MediumReactorRadiator
Emissive = 0.7
EmissiveExtended = 1.0
Area = 2.99
AreaExtended = 2.71
Radiation = 100
RadiationExtended = 450
}
MODULE
{
name = BBModule
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleAeroReentry
skinHeatConductivity = 1
skinThicknessFactor = 0.99
skinMaxTemp = 1900
}
MODULE
{
name = GeometryPartModule
}
MODULE
{
name = FARAeroPartModule
}
MODULE
{
name = FARPartModule
}
}
}

[Sput42]

Having an issue on Linux x64. Completely stock, fresh install. Cant attach any heatshields to anything it seems. With some work with the mouse i can get the parts to flash green, but its difficult.

Player.log

KSP.log

I can reproduce this, by fiddling with the mouse I can get the part to flash green for a fraction of a second immediately before it "unsticks" and jumps away from the pod, but not long enough to issue a click. Tried all sorts of things, camera angles, zooming in and out, no dice. Tried with the Mk1 pod and the DRE heat shield.

In the end I got it to attach by first attaching it upside-down to some other part, adding the pod, changing the root and removing the superfluous parts, but that's rather awkward...

[Starwaster]

I can reproduce this, by fiddling with the mouse I can get the part to flash green for a fraction of a second immediately before it "unsticks" and jumps away from the pod, but not long enough to issue a click. Tried all sorts of things, camera angles, zooming in and out, no dice. Tried with the Mk1 pod and the DRE heat shield.

In the end I got it to attach by first attaching it upside-down to some other part, adding the pod, changing the root and removing the superfluous parts, but that's rather awkward...

It's a problem with any part which has 2 or more attach nodes in close proximity; I can even repro it on stock part.

You don't have to do those convoluted gyrations you describe to get around the problem. Just careful move the cursor slightly away from whatever you're attaching to but not quite enough to unsnap from the part.

[somnambulist]

It's a problem with any part which has 2 or more attach nodes in close proximity; I can even repro it on stock part.

You don't have to do those convoluted gyrations you describe to get around the problem. Just careful move the cursor slightly away from whatever you're attaching to but not quite enough to unsnap from the part.

Someone on the forums mentioned that the order the attach nodes are listed in the CFG seems to affect their affinity for attaching to parts. The node list last in the CFG is the first that wants to attach. You could alleviate some of the problems by swapping the order of `node_stack_top` and `node_stack_bottom` so the top node is the first node that tries to attach. (This is, of course, assuming this isn't just some old Kerbal's tale. )

[Motokid600]

I was able to get the shield to attach. Its strange. Sometimes it'll go green easily. Other times it'll take a few minutes of messing with the mouse. I had originally made the comment because I couldn't get it too attatch at all. But I went back and it worked after a restart.

[Starwaster]

Someone on the forums mentioned that the order the attach nodes are listed in the CFG seems to affect their affinity for attaching to parts. The node list last in the CFG is the first that wants to attach. You could alleviate some of the problems by swapping the order of `node_stack_top` and `node_stack_bottom` so the top node is the first node that tries to attach. (This is, of course, assuming this isn't just some old Kerbal's tale. )

It very much does sound like an 'old Kerbal's tale'. I mean, those rockets get bigger and bigger with each retelling!

Still, we try stuff. Sometimes it works.

Looking at the configs, in the case of the 2.5m shield, their order was already bottom first, top second.... and they still need a little mouse tweaking..... so I don't know. I'll try playing with the order and see if anything changes.

[Svm420]

If it's been replaced with Ven's part then it's not stock anymore.

The problem is probably the animation. The service bay part uses ModuleCargoBay which for animated parts like that relies on knowing which animation state represents 'open' and 'closed'. Looking at that picture and seeing no convective flux I can tell you right now: That cargo bay thinks it is closed.

You're going to have to kick this over to Ven. Either he needs to fix the animation or he has to change the cargo bay module on the part so that its closedPosition has the proper value for 'closed'

I think I am confused. My question is why, since the service bay is closed, is only that part heating and how can it get hotter than the air around it, how can it not radiate it's own heat away, how can it get that hot when nothing near it is that hot, and why does it suddenly cool off if the doors are opened. I then close them and it returns to slowly heating till it exploded from 1200* skinTemp while the part temp is around 286. Where is the magic heat coming from that only effects this part and can somehow pump heat into a part that is hotter than all other parts around it? None of that happens in stock. Here is an album illistating more what I mean. The first photo is right as my jet engine exploded from heat the rest relate to the service bay

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Starwaster]

I think I am confused. My question is why, since the service bay is closed, is only that part heating and how can it get hotter than the air around it, how can it not radiate it's own heat away, how can it get that hot when nothing near it is that hot, and why does it suddenly cool off if the doors are opened. I then close them and it returns to slowly heating till it exploded from 1200* skinTemp while the part temp is around 286. Where is the magic heat coming from that only effects this part and can somehow pump heat into a part that is hotter than all other parts around it? None of that happens in stock. Here is an album illistating more what I mean. The first photo is right as my jet engine exploded from heat the rest relate to the service bay http://imgur.com/a/FcB7q

Most of those picture don't really tell me much though. I can see they're a bunch of small parts in a service module but I don't understand what you're trying to convey about them..

The engine is another matter. Just to confirm, THAT is the part that is exploding?

(I see no errors in your log btw. at all)

[Svm420]

Most of those picture don't really tell me much though. I can see they're a bunch of small parts in a service module but I don't understand what you're trying to convey about them..

The engine is another matter. Just to confirm, THAT is the part that is exploding?

(I see no errors in your log btw. at all)

If you just checked the log recently it may be a newer one not related. I have a habit of having to supply those a lot lately. Those part are heating from no where. Look at the different skintemps. Why are some getting hot while others aren't? This photo is what happens 5 RL minutes after those 9 photos of all the parts in the service bay. I just wanted to get the early temp differences in those 9 pictures to show what each part was experiencing.

Why is the barometer able to get to 1000+K inside a service bay while all other parts stay normal temp. How can it get this hot without radiating heat away? Why does it cool when I open the bay and start to heat again when I close it? Are you really seeing no issues with this? And yes the 1st pic is of the engines exploding and the Rclick menu to show the readouts

Edited May 23, 2015 by Svm420

[Starwaster]

There's no big mystery as to where the heat is coming from. This mod doesn't create heat out of nowhere. You've got an engine there cranking out quite a bit of it.

Which engine I don't know. It would probably be more useful to know that than all those small parts in that bay.

A craft aft file with just stock parts would be good too. I really can't learn much else from that barometer that I don't already know.

[Svm420]

There's no big mystery as to where the heat is coming from. This mod doesn't create heat out of nowhere. You've got an engine there cranking out quite a bit of it.

Which engine I don't know. It would probably be more useful to know that than all those small parts in that bay.

A craft aft file with just stock parts would be good too. I really can't learn much else from that barometer that I don't already know.

Then explain the heat to me. I am not seeing how thermodynamicly that is possible. It says the heat is coming from radiation. From where? How can skin temp be 700 degrees higher than ambient temp. How is that thermodynamicly possible?

[taniwha]

Svm420: Ambient temp is pretty cold, yes, but your vessel plowing through the air at supersonic speeds compresses the air, causing heating (iirc, on the order of Tc/T = V/Vc where Tc and Vc are compressed temperature and volume, T and V are the ambient temperature and volume) in the resulting shock wave. It is the superheated air in the shock wave that is the source of the radiated heat.

In other words, the heat to heat up your vessel comes from the shock wave that gets its energy from the kinetic energy of your vessel. Or, you are converting your vessel's kinetic energy into thermal energy, some of which returns to the vessel allowing you to cook your kerbals.

[DSM20T]

Svm420: Ambient temp is pretty cold, yes, but your vessel plowing through the air at supersonic speeds compresses the air, causing heating (iirc, on the order of Tc/T = V/Vc where Tc and Vc are compressed temperature and volume, T and V are the ambient temperature and volume) in the resulting shock wave. It is the superheated air in the shock wave that is the source of the radiated heat.

In other words, the heat to heat up your vessel comes from the shock wave that gets its energy from the kinetic energy of your vessel. Or, you are converting your vessel's kinetic energy into thermal energy, some of which returns to the vessel allowing you to cook your kerbals.

I think the question he is getting at is why is the barometer the only part in that area that is getting hot. From what I can gather none of the parts right next to it are getting hot, only the barometer.

I have a similar scenario with mystery goo getting hot on one of my vessels. Only the goo gets hot but the service bay and all the other science parts in the service bay stay cool.

[Svm420]

Svm420: Ambient temp is pretty cold, yes, but your vessel plowing through the air at supersonic speeds compresses the air, causing heating (iirc, on the order of Tc/T = V/Vc where Tc and Vc are compressed temperature and volume, T and V are the ambient temperature and volume) in the resulting shock wave. It is the superheated air in the shock wave that is the source of the radiated heat.

In other words, the heat to heat up your vessel comes from the shock wave that gets its energy from the kinetic energy of your vessel. Or, you are converting your vessel's kinetic energy into thermal energy, some of which returns to the vessel allowing you to cook your kerbals.

I will have to take a video. No one seems to get it. I can cool the part by opening the bay at mach 1. I can cool the part by opening the bay at mach 1. It will remain cool as long as the bay is open. As soon as the bay is closed it begins to heat. So your telling me the part is unable to radiate/conduct any heat away without the bay open? I don't know what else to say.

[Starwaster]

I will have to take a video. No one seems to get it. I can cool the part by opening the bay at mach 1. I can cool the part by opening the bay at mach 1. It will remain cool as long as the bay is open. As soon as the bay is closed it begins to heat. So your telling me the part is unable to radiate/conduct any heat away without the bay open? I don't know what else to say.

How about saying you'll provide a craft file in stock parts that will let me repro your problem?

I'm not learning anything from those pictures. I put up craft with jet engines and service modules and didn't see anything unusual.

[Gryphon]

So your telling me the part is unable to radiate/conduct any heat away without the bay open?

I don't really know much about it, but where would a part in an enclosed bay radiate heat TO?

[Starwaster]

I don't really know much about it, but where would a part in an enclosed bay radiate heat TO?

IRL, they would radiate into the enclosed environment of the cargo bay where it would be absorbed and reeradiated by everything around, including the cargo bay.

Both stock and DRE suspend convection / radiation for a part that is marked as shielded. (except for when it's in analytical mode I think. i.e. faster than timewarp x100)

[Svm420]

IRL, they would radiate into the enclosed environment of the cargo bay where it would be absorbed and reeradiated by everything around, including the cargo bay.

Both stock and DRE suspend convection / radiation for a part that is marked as shielded. (except for when it's in analytical mode I think. i.e. faster than timewarp x100)

It's some interaction with FAR. I tried DR with stock no issue. DR with FAR leads to exploding science. Replication

1. Start game with DR and FAR latest dev build.

2.a Build plane with service bay stock.

2b Load science in said service bay

3. Launch plane.

4. Get speed over mach 1

5. Fly level until part explodes as skintemp slowly creeps to 1500+K.

Here is a 100% stock craft file so you can skip to step 3.

[smunisto]

On a side note, I still seem to be having some convection heating problems...or at least that's what I think it is. Using DRE 7.0.3 with Starwaster's updated DLL and .cfg.

A good thing to report was that parts within PF no longer almost spontaneously explode with the updated DLLs and Procedural Fairings.

However I still keep getting cheese-made parts explode in a relatively normal ascent. For example the stock micro-landing struts get destroyed due to heating before I even finish setting the apo during ascent.

I don't understand, even if convective(heat transmitted from one part to another, right?) heating with DRE is supposed to be realistic with the part skin system, I don't get how burning the first stage engine for 2 mins can overheat a part that is on the topmost of the rocket. Realistically there is some heat shielding between stages, right? Isn't it the same in KSP with decouplers? Shouldn't they at least limit any heat going through them by some percentage?

I don't really understand the technical data related to heating in 1.0, I remember someone explained it somewhere(maybe Starwaster, but I can't seem to find it), but here's a few screens and an output log.

Output_log

https://bg3.biz/cloud/index.php/s/E0SujuioB46VDjl

https://bg3.biz/cloud/index.php/s/6UpCo4UU7prooXr

https://bg3.biz/cloud/index.php/s/xKrzIq5QapC3BFI

Reposting for the sake of an answer. Keep getting fairly squishy parts explode inside the fairings on lengthy ascents with rockets that have long stage burning times.

[Svm420]

Reposting for the sake of an answer. Keep getting fairly squishy parts explode inside the fairings on lengthy ascents with rockets that have long stage burning times.

Where is the heat coming from according to the rclick menu with thermal debug enabled? If it is a small amount of rad heat then it's a FAR/DR issue. I am having the same problem. PArts inside fairings and service bays heat from a small amount of rad heat till they explode. I posted above about this and hope that Starwaster is looking into it. For the time being I uninstalled DR as I'd rather have real aerodynamics.

[Roelstra]

Hello

i have a little question

Is there a way to configure burning FX ?

don't know why i get burning FX during ascend

is it a side effect of DRE & temp skin ?

sorry if question was already asked ...

[smunisto]

Hello

i have a little question

Is there a way to configure burning FX ?

don't know why i get burning FX during ascend

is it a side effect of DRE & temp skin ?

sorry if question was already asked ...

This means you have way too much TWR and is an effect from the realistic aerodynamics of stock 1.0. DRE just reinforces this effect to force you to create realistic rockets without insane TWR.

Try balancing your rocket to have between 1.20 - 1.60 TWR while in the atmosphere, either by reducing the throttle or using better engines for the purpose, not some overkill.