[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[torchard96]

Hi i'm trying to make this really big mission in RSS and RO. I'm wondering is if there's a way to have multiple heat shields so when one burns up the reentry heating hits the next one after it. I tried it but everything just exploded. I have procedural parts with heat shields so size isn't an issue. The lander is 87 meters tall and 50 meters across and the whole thing weighs in at 24,000 tons (I know it's insane but the planet is really big).

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, torchard96 said:

Hi i'm trying to make this really big mission in RSS and RO. I'm wondering is if there's a way to have multiple heat shields so when one burns up the reentry heating hits the next one after it. I tried it but everything just exploded. I have procedural parts with heat shields so size isn't an issue. The lander is 87 meters tall and 50 meters across and the whole thing weighs in at 24,000 tons (I know it's insane but the planet is really big).

You shouldn't need more than one. If your shield is burning up, either it's not properly configured for RO or you're coming in too steep or too shallow. (too shallow is the most likely cause. Too steep will increase the heat pulse but the total heat loading is lower)

But tell me, what kind of angle are you coming in at, how fast when you hit reentry interface and how long until the shield fails? And what planet?

[torchard96]

22 hours ago, Starwaster said:

You shouldn't need more than one. If your shield is burning up, either it's not properly configured for RO or you're coming in too steep or too shallow. (too shallow is the most likely cause. Too steep will increase the heat pulse but the total heat loading is lower)

But tell me, what kind of angle are you coming in at, how fast when you hit reentry interface and how long until the shield fails? And what planet?

I've Already tested the same heat shield with smaller payloads and it works fine (even if it does say WIP). As for the decent it's I've tried a few different configurations, from a pe of 18km and a ap of 200km to a ap of 200km and a pe of -2Mm (any more and the delta V to slow down would be unrealistic). Reentry around this planet is 15 km/s from low orbit and the heat shield (which is 50 m across) lasts about a minute (probably less due to high lag). And like I said in the first post the planet is a secret, but it is 0.75 atmospheric pressure at sea level.

And just letting you know this is not a bug report just a design issue I need help on. I'm a bit of a newbie at the KSP forms and figured this was a good place to go for help.

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, torchard96 said:

I've Already tested the same heat shield with smaller payloads and it works fine (even if it does say WIP). As for the decent it's I've tried a few different configurations, from a pe of 18km and a ap of 200km to a ap of 200km and a pe of -2Mm (any more and the delta V to slow down would be unrealistic). Reentry around this planet is 15 km/s from low orbit and the heat shield (which is 50 m across) lasts about a minute (probably less due to high lag). And like I said in the first post the planet is a secret, but it is 0.75 atmospheric pressure at sea level.

And just letting you know this is not a bug report just a design issue I need help on. I'm a bit of a newbie at the KSP forms and figured this was a good place to go for help.

Uhm ok. Planet is a secret. No, you did not mention that before. I don't even know what to say to that.

Whatever. Pe of 18km is way too steep. Not enough time for aerobraking; you need as much aerobraking as high up as possible.

And then you say the shield lasts.... one minute. That does not sound like a shield intended for 15km/s reentry. In spite of the orbital parameters provided, those are lunar reentry speeds and the shield has to be rated for lunar reentry.

 

[eightiesboi]

Hey Starwaster!

After a hiatus (thank you, XCOM 2), I am back playing KSP and in a new career; however, my skill set has apparently deteriorated with time. I am trying to have a probe survive reentry on Kerbin from an AP of around 500km. Probe is an OKTO core with two (small) radial attached chutes and a 6.25 heat shield. So far, I've survived exactly one reentry with a PE of around 50km, but did not survive a subsequent reentry (APs were slightly different). Although the ablator burns down on the heat shield, it does nothing to protect the skin of my OKTO, which heats up to 850k and goes POOF! I am using FAR. Suggestions? If it will help, I can run one quick sim and attach the logs, but I am really looking for suggestions as to PE, unless you think there may be something else wrong (besides my inherent ineptitude, of course).

(BTW - if it wasn't obvious, I am holding a retrograde descent, and my chutes DON'T burn up (nor does anything else.)

Thanks, and as always, thank you for making this mod!

Edited August 30, 2016 by eightiesboi

[Starwaster]

9 hours ago, eightiesboi said:

Hey Starwaster!

After a hiatus (thank you, XCOM 2), I am back playing KSP and in a new career; however, my skill set has apparently deteriorated with time. I am trying to have a probe survive reentry on Kerbin from an AP of around 500km. Probe is an OKTO core with two (small) radial attached chutes and a 6.25 heat shield. So far, I've survived exactly one reentry with a PE of around 50km, but did not survive a subsequent reentry (APs were slightly different). Although the ablator burns down on the heat shield, it does nothing to protect the skin of my OKTO, which heats up to 850k and goes POOF! I am using FAR. Suggestions? If it will help, I can run one quick sim and attach the logs, but I am really looking for suggestions as to PE, unless you think there may be something else wrong (besides my inherent ineptitude, of course).

(BTW - if it wasn't obvious, I am holding a retrograde descent, and my chutes DON'T burn up (nor does anything else.)

Thanks, and as always, thank you for making this mod!

That shield is barely big enough to cover the bottom of the core. But the probe's sides extend straight up from there. That means if you don't have exactly 0.0000 (feel free to stick on some more zeroes; the point is it's gotta be really SMALL) deg angle of attack / sideslip then whatever the thing you're protecting won't be. And the smaller the shield then the smaller the vertical area of coverage is so the payload can't be very tall either for a 625 shield

[eightiesboi]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

That shield is barely big enough to cover the bottom of the core. But the probe's sides extend straight up from there. That means if you don't have exactly 0.0000 (feel free to stick on some more zeroes; the point is it's gotta be really SMALL) deg angle of attack / sideslip then whatever the thing you're protecting won't be. And the smaller the shield then the smaller the vertical area of coverage is so the payload can't be very tall either for a 625 shield

Ya know, I wondered if it could be as simple as that (i.e. the sides sticking out), but I figured that it had to be me, not the heatshield. Okay, back to the drawing board... thank you!

[torchard96]

16 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Uhm ok. Planet is a secret. No, you did not mention that before. I don't even know what to say to that.

Whatever. Pe of 18km is way too steep. Not enough time for aerobraking; you need as much aerobraking as high up as possible.

And then you say the shield lasts.... one minute. That does not sound like a shield intended for 15km/s reentry. In spite of the orbital parameters provided, those are lunar reentry speeds and the shield has to be rated for lunar reentry.

 

Sorry about that I was trying to be funny, the planet's is Tau Ceti e from the RSS Star Pack. It's about 6 times the mass of earth and has 2.3 times the surface gravity, that's why the reentry speed is so high. I tried using one of the other Lunar rated heat shields but the biggest one was 10m and my ship is 50m so I made this monstrosity https://www.dropbox.com/s/ulq3zgiug0zktsp/screenshot20.png?dl=0 (I also tried scaling one up to the right size with tweak scale). I put my pe down to 70km and just like I thought all the ablator burnt away (all 47000 units), but before it did that the Saturn V avionics near the middle of the ship overheated for no reason, it was well behind the heat shield and it happens within 10 seconds of entering the atmosphere.

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, torchard96 said:

Sorry about that I was trying to be funny, the planet's is Tau Ceti e from the RSS Star Pack. It's about 6 times the mass of earth and has 2.3 times the surface gravity, that's why the reentry speed is so high. I tried using one of the other Lunar rated heat shields but the biggest one was 10m and my ship is 50m so I made this monstrosity https://www.dropbox.com/s/ulq3zgiug0zktsp/screenshot20.png?dl=0 (I also tried scaling one up to the right size with tweak scale). I put my pe down to 70km and just like I thought all the ablator burnt away (all 47000 units), but before it did that the Saturn V avionics near the middle of the ship overheated for no reason, it was well behind the heat shield and it happens within 10 seconds of entering the atmosphere.

I need to see your ModuleManager.ConfigCache file please. You can upload it somewhere like Dropbox and include the link here.

I need to see what the base state of various shields are so I know what RO is or is not doing. No way does 47k worth of shield just burn away in 10 seconds. Something is horribly wrong there. What is that the tweak scaled lunar shield?

 

[torchard96]

7 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

I need to see your ModuleManager.ConfigCache file please. You can upload it somewhere like Dropbox and include the link here.

I need to see what the base state of various shields are so I know what RO is or is not doing. No way does 47k worth of shield just burn away in 10 seconds. Something is horribly wrong there. What is that the tweak scaled lunar shield?

 

First it was the avionics section in the middle of the ship that blew up in 10 seconds the heat shield lasted another 7 minutes.

And the image was a bunch of non-scaled 10 meter shields stacked together to cover the bottom of the ship, I didn't show the tweak scaled shield since it looks like just one big heat shield.

I don't think there's anything wrong with RO, I think it's that the ship is just too heavy (24k tons) to slow down and so it punches straight through the atmosphere.

 

But anyway here's the ModuleManager.ConfigCache file https://www.dropbox.com/s/hd85epsjfz0prbm/ModuleManager.ConfigCache?dl=0

[Starwaster]

7 hours ago, torchard96 said:

First it was the avionics section in the middle of the ship that blew up in 10 seconds the heat shield lasted another 7 minutes.

And the image was a bunch of non-scaled 10 meter shields stacked together to cover the bottom of the ship, I didn't show the tweak scaled shield since it looks like just one big heat shield.

I don't think there's anything wrong with RO, I think it's that the ship is just too heavy (24k tons) to slow down and so it punches straight through the atmosphere.

 

But anyway here's the ModuleManager.ConfigCache file https://www.dropbox.com/s/hd85epsjfz0prbm/ModuleManager.ConfigCache?dl=0

It may well be that your craft is just too heavy but there's definitely some issues with several of the 42 heat shields you have installed there. As in they're configured for stock instead of a scaled up universe. That includes the procedural heat shields.

DRE has some fallback configs but they only work for RSS because ir relies on the mod's folder name to determine if it should apply itself.

[torchard96]

15 hours ago, Starwaster said:

It may well be that your craft is just too heavy but there's definitely some issues with several of the 42 heat shields you have installed there. As in they're configured for stock instead of a scaled up universe. That includes the procedural heat shields.

DRE has some fallback configs but they only work for RSS because ir relies on the mod's folder name to determine if it should apply itself.

Yea now that I think about it my ship is way too big, i'll need to do some major redesigns. Btw while testing I found some bug that caused the "Saturn Instrument Unit" to over heat and explode despite being behind the 10 meter heat shield as if it wasn't there. Please feel free to ask me for any files you may need to sort out the issue.

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, torchard96 said:

Yea now that I think about it my ship is way too big, i'll need to do some major redesigns. Btw while testing I found some bug that caused the "Saturn Instrument Unit" to over heat and explode despite being behind the 10 meter heat shield as if it wasn't there. Please feel free to ask me for any files you may need to sort out the issue.

What's the size of the SIU?

[torchard96]

6 hours ago, Starwaster said:

What's the size of the SIU?

7.9 meters (darn imperial system)

[Starwaster]

@torchard96

Might be that heat shield doesn't have a rescaled drag cube. Lots of RO's parts that have been rescaled also rescale the drag cubes in the RO configs. But some don't and I don't know why that is. I'd bring it up in the RO thread because whether or not parts thermally occlude one another is handled by stock code and is based on their drag cubes. DRE doesn't touch on that at all.

[Starwaster]

Ok, so tropical storm Hermine is bearing down on me (maybe hurricane by the time it arrives) so any support requests will probably have to wait for a few days if I lose power.

[kcs123]

I can only whish that short power shortage is all damage that Hermine will cause. Can only pray that everything will be well after it pass.

[Starwaster]

Day 3 without power. Probably worst electric company ever so... Who knows. Our local infrastructure is intact so no idea. Even up nearest main road lines are up and lights are on. 

 

[Starwaster]

Yay, have power and intarwebz back

[kcs123]

Nice to hear that things going back to normal. Not having fresh clean water is probably worst thing to loose. Often noticing how much we depend on it, only when it is missing. Second to that is electricity and internet. Mostly due to all new living habits we have in 21st century.

[Starwaster]

13 hours ago, kcs123 said:

Nice to hear that things going back to normal. Not having fresh clean water is probably worst thing to loose. Often noticing how much we depend on it, only when it is missing. Second to that is electricity and internet. Mostly due to all new living habits we have in 21st century.

Well we had 3 days water saved up (which is a LOT of water because I live at a cat sanctuary and we use lots of water for drinking water for us and the cats and for cleaning purposes. 

On day 3 we were starting to get worried so we carried all our empty containers to someone's house to restock water, charge my iPhone and take SHOWERS! (well water, so no electricity = no pump = no water = no showers)

When we got back home we saw some Talquin workers in the area so on a whim I turned on our outside faucet and WATER!

[rsparkyc]

I'm playing with Realism Overhaul and just noticed that Deadly Reentry doesn't seem very...well...deadly.  Obviously something is wrong here.  I had a bad reentry and managed to pull 19 gees in the Mk1 capsule, but was able to land just fine.  I would think the pilot would have died from overgee but he was fine.  I just tried reinstalling DRE, but I'm not optimistic.  Will post again if the problem persists in a minute.

Here's my mod list:

Spoiler

KSP: 1.1.3 (Unix) - Unity: 5.2.4f1 - OS: Mac OS X 10.11.6
Toolbar - 1.7.12
Advanced Jet Engine - 2.7.2
AtmosphereAutopilot - 1.5.7
B9 Aerospace Procedural Parts - 0.40.7
Community Resource Pack - 0.5.4
Connected Living Space - 1.2.3
Contract Configurator - 1.19
CC-CP-SCANSat - 0.6.0.1
Contract Pack: RemoteTech - 2.1.3
CustomBarnKit - 1.1.9
DMagic Orbital Science - 1.3.0.2
CapCom Mission Control On The Go - 1.0.2.4
Contract Parser - 1.0.4
Contracts Window Plus - 1.0.6.4
Progress Parser - 1.0.5
Deadly Reentry - 7.4.7
EditorExtensionsRedux - 3.2.14
Engine Lighting - 1.4.5
Ferram Aerospace Research - 0.15.7.2
Firespitter - 7.3
RasterPropMonitor - 0.27.1
KRASH - 0.5.21
KSP-AVC Plugin - 1.1.6.1
Kerbal Construction Time - 1.3.4
Kerbal Joint Reinforcement - 3.2
MagiCore - 1.1.2
Infernal Robots - 2.0.5
ModularFlightIntegrator - 1.1.6
Docking Port Alignment Indicator - 6.4
PartCommander - 1.1.1
Procedural Parts - 1.2.5
RCS Build Aid - 0.8.1
RSSDateTime - 1.0.4
RealChute - 1.4.1.1
RealSolarSystem - 11.4
RealismOverhaul - 11.3.2
RemoteTech - 1.7.1
SCANsat - 1.1.6.6
ShipManifest - 5.1.2.2
SolverEngines - 2.3
TestFlight - 1.7.0.1
TextureReplacer - 2.4.13
TAC Life Support - 0.12.4
Kerbal Alarm Clock - 3.7.1
TweakScale - 2.2.13
VenStockRevamp - 1.9.5
Waypoint Manager - 2.5.3
[x] Science! - 4.20
kOS - 1.0

 

EDIT: After a reinstall, I still survive what should have been a "Deadly Reentry" 

Edited September 10, 2016 by rsparkyc

[Starwaster]

18 hours ago, rsparkyc said:

I'm playing with Realism Overhaul and just noticed that Deadly Reentry doesn't seem very...well...deadly.  Obviously something is wrong here.  I had a bad reentry and managed to pull 19 gees in the Mk1 capsule, but was able to land just fine.  I would think the pilot would have died from overgee but he was fine.  I just tried reinstalling DRE, but I'm not optimistic.  Will post again if the problem persists in a minute.

Here's my mod list:

  Reveal hidden contents

KSP: 1.1.3 (Unix) - Unity: 5.2.4f1 - OS: Mac OS X 10.11.6
Toolbar - 1.7.12
Advanced Jet Engine - 2.7.2
AtmosphereAutopilot - 1.5.7
B9 Aerospace Procedural Parts - 0.40.7
Community Resource Pack - 0.5.4
Connected Living Space - 1.2.3
Contract Configurator - 1.19
CC-CP-SCANSat - 0.6.0.1
Contract Pack: RemoteTech - 2.1.3
CustomBarnKit - 1.1.9
DMagic Orbital Science - 1.3.0.2
CapCom Mission Control On The Go - 1.0.2.4
Contract Parser - 1.0.4
Contracts Window Plus - 1.0.6.4
Progress Parser - 1.0.5
Deadly Reentry - 7.4.7
EditorExtensionsRedux - 3.2.14
Engine Lighting - 1.4.5
Ferram Aerospace Research - 0.15.7.2
Firespitter - 7.3
RasterPropMonitor - 0.27.1
KRASH - 0.5.21
KSP-AVC Plugin - 1.1.6.1
Kerbal Construction Time - 1.3.4
Kerbal Joint Reinforcement - 3.2
MagiCore - 1.1.2
Infernal Robots - 2.0.5
ModularFlightIntegrator - 1.1.6
Docking Port Alignment Indicator - 6.4
PartCommander - 1.1.1
Procedural Parts - 1.2.5
RCS Build Aid - 0.8.1
RSSDateTime - 1.0.4
RealChute - 1.4.1.1
RealSolarSystem - 11.4
RealismOverhaul - 11.3.2
RemoteTech - 1.7.1
SCANsat - 1.1.6.6
ShipManifest - 5.1.2.2
SolverEngines - 2.3
TestFlight - 1.7.0.1
TextureReplacer - 2.4.13
TAC Life Support - 0.12.4
Kerbal Alarm Clock - 3.7.1
TweakScale - 2.2.13
VenStockRevamp - 1.9.5
Waypoint Manager - 2.5.3
[x] Science! - 4.20
kOS - 1.0

 

EDIT: After a reinstall, I still survive what should have been a "Deadly Reentry" 

19 gs for how long?

[rsparkyc]

@Starwaster 19 gees was the peak amount, but here's a video where I sustained over 15 for a while: https://youtu.be/9fwKUNqGK8k?t=20m0s

 

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, rsparkyc said:

@Starwaster 19 gees was the peak amount, but here's a video where I sustained over 15 for a while: https://youtu.be/9fwKUNqGK8k?t=20m0s

 

I'm not really seeing anything 'obviously wrong' in the video. I think the problem is this: Realism Overhaul expectations. In Reality, humans are more tolerant to g forces than most people realize. We used to get quite a few complaints about crew dying on short suborbital flights when using Realism Overhaul and what I realized was that RO needed its own set of g force parameters for crew. Stock Kerbin reentries are much shorter in duration and g forces inflicted are typically lower than than what you'd get on an Earth reentry. A LOT lower. 

So you should expect g force damage on crew to be a lot more forgiving when using Realism Overhaul. I crafted those parameters myself very carefully using 10 g as the calibration point such that DRE will not start checking for crew death for at least 1 minute at 10 g. And because of random  determination, the precise point at which a crew member dies is going to be a bit longer. And it should be longer given that the tolerance durations were derived from loss of consciousness data which is another reason that the RO configurations have to be more tolerant than for stock, which needs to be a lot more gamey. It may not look it, but it's actually much less tolerant as you pass 10 g. At 19 g the limit is reached after seconds rather than minutes. IRL, humans have survived that kind of g force for minutes without LOC. Durations in KSP must be measured at the MET clock rather than player time because the physics engine clock may be slower. (every time your MET clock turns yellow or red, physics time will be slower than usual)

I'll leave you with this excerpt about human endurance in g force testing. And these are for untrained humans. A trained human with an anti-g suit should be expected to withstand high g.

Earlier experiments reveal that untrained humans were able to stand 17 g eyeballs-in for several minutes without losing consciousness. This is in comparison to 12 g eyeballs-out. The record human tolerance of horizontal axis G force is held by acceleration pioneer John Stapp. He is known to have endured a peak "eyeballs-out" force of 46.2 times the force of gravity. This has proved that the human body is capable of this tolerance of Horizontal Axis G Force. Stapp was to live another 45 years to age 89, but his vision suffered lifelong damage due to these tests."

http://www.gforces.net/human-tolerance-horizontal.html

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Starwaster