[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[RocketRyleigh]

7 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@Headrip @RocketRyleigh

Not enough information and unable to reproduce problem on my end. I need your output_log.txt file and ModuleManager.ConfigCache files.

K well now I'm really confused especially since @Headrip seems to have experienced the same thing. Upon attempting to recreate the issue again today to get the logs, I can't get it to happen again in any configuration (DRE and MM only on my clean 1.2.2 backup, DRE and MM only on the copy I was using initially, DRE and all my other mods, nothing). Also, at this point the output_log has been delete and recreated multiple times (deleted it so the new one would only show the issue).

If @Headrip manages to recreate it, then we've got something, but otherwise I guess it'll just be a mystery.

EDIT: Recreation successful, logs imminent.

Is there a better way to provide logs than this?:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/leefik22tluambf/output_log.txt?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/prgxk158b6mzmmt/ModuleManager.ConfigCache?dl=0

Edited May 17, 2017 by RocketRyleigh

[Starwaster]

21 minutes ago, RocketRyleigh said:

Is there a better way to provide logs than this?:

No. Dropbox is the best way ever.

(that doesn't sound... biased... right?)

btw if you changed ?dl=0 to ?dl=1 then clicking it automagically starts the download of that file

Edited May 17, 2017 by Starwaster

[RocketRyleigh]

2 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

No. Dropbox is the best way ever.

(that doesn't sound... biased... right?)

btw if you changed ?dl=0 to ?dl=1 then clicking it automagically starts the download of that file

Definitely good to know, I'll do that now for those files, if anything just to familiarize myself.

[Starwaster]

@RocketRyleigh

Do you know how to turn on thermal debugging? (Alt-F12->Physics->Thermal then check the box that says 'Display Thermal Data...')

then right click a Kerbal on EVA (be sure to turn on the max temp cheat if you need to)

And then come back here and tell me what the thermal mass and skin thermal mass of the Kerbal is please.

[RocketRyleigh]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

@RocketRyleigh

Do you know how to turn on thermal debugging? (Alt-F12->Physics->Thermal then check the box that says 'Display Thermal Data...')

then right click a Kerbal on EVA (be sure to turn on the max temp cheat if you need to)

And then come back here and tell me what the thermal mass and skin thermal mass of the Kerbal is please.

Thermal Mass = 71.5 kj/K

Skin Thermal Mass = 3.5 kj/K

Edit: It's probably worth mentioning that when I couldn't recreate the issue earlier, I think I was inadvertently just using the earlier working download of DRE (just a few days difference, same version), and the issue returned when I tried a fresh download of DRE.

Also, the max temp cheat wasn't necessary, as the Kerbal is fine while holding onto the craft, it's only when he lets go that he immediately explodes, hence my suspicion that the issue is related to moving through the atmosphere.

Edit: Sorry for edit bloating; I just realized you might have been asking for thermal data of the Kerbal once it lets go of the ladder.

Just tested and there's no change in the Thermal Mass or Skin Thermal Mass.

Here are the two copies of DRE I've been referring to (both 7.5.0), the first is apparently working fine, the second is the fresh download with the issue:

Working:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p0kphqe2t7cghg4/AAAOLbBScxXqMpzZUxlAxnAwa?dl=0

Broken:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uqdg0yi74ocg48n/AAAd0YQmxChzxUzDCjdwuAwJa?dl=0

P.S. Where would I edit that ?dl=0 to ?dl=1?

Edited May 17, 2017 by RocketRyleigh

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, RocketRyleigh said:

Thermal Mass = 71.5 kj/K

Skin Thermal Mass = 3.5 kj/K

Edits: It's probably worth mentioning that when I couldn't recreate the issue earlier, I think I was inadvertently just using the earlier working download of DRE (just a few days difference, same version), and the issue returned when I tried a fresh download of DRE.

Also, the max temp cheat wasn't necessary, as the Kerbal is fine while holding onto the craft, it's only when he lets go that he immediately explodes, hence my suspicion that the issue is related to moving through the atmosphere.

where were you? Does it happen on the launch pad? Still having no luck on repro.

The only thing that really stands out here is your Kerbal's thermal mass. 71.5kj is pretty low. Much lower than the stock value of ~40000kj. The difference is enough to raise your temperature 559x higher than what would raise the temperature of a stock Kerbal one degree. But that assumes a really high temperature delta that you're just not going to see on Kerbin. On the other hand, really weird things have been known to happen if the thermal mass is too low but safeguards have long been in place in the stock code to ensure that it can't drop too low.

Actually I WAS able to get Valentina killed by holding shift+space which ejects them off the ladder with more force (they jump away from it basically)

But the cause of death was crashing into the terrain. Hard enough to destroy the pad. Which isn't a Deadly Reentry issue... so I'm still looking into it.

Actually one other thing: Send a copy of your ModuleManager.Physics file and then DELETE that file and run the game again. And then see if you  still duplicate the problem.

Ok, scratch all that (actually that's what I just did....) 71.5kj is totally normal. My stock testing environment wasn't quite as stock as I thought because I'd made some screwy changes testing something else. Namely set my kerbalCrewMass really high testing something else and then forgot to set it back. The funny thing is that supposedly that setting doesn't actually do anything and isn't SUPPOSED to touch KerbalEVA parts at all but it does. So not only was my thermal mass absurdly high on a supposed stock testing environment but was also making my Kerbal heavy enough to destroy the pad. So let's try reproing this again

Edited May 18, 2017 by Starwaster

[RocketRyleigh]

@Starwaster I've been testing on the launchpad, and once in low orbit where there were streaming flame effects eminating from the Kerbal (specifically low Joolian orbit, for no particular reason other than the view, and at that time I had my other mods installed including Realistic Atmospheres).

I can hop on now and Set Orbit to an 80km LKO and see what happens.

Edit: Can confirm that as @Headrip observed, the Kerbal explodes immediately on EVA while in orbit; here is a fresh output_log from that test:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/leefik22tluambf/output_log.txt?dl=0

(accidentally replaced the first output_log I posted, but I'll assume you downloaded that already)

Edited May 18, 2017 by RocketRyleigh

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, RocketRyleigh said:

@Starwaster I've been testing on the launchpad, and once in low orbit where there were streaming flame effects eminating from the Kerbal (specifically low Joolian orbit, for no particular reason other than the view, and at that time I had my other mods installed including Realistic Atmospheres).

I can hop on now and Set Orbit to an 80km LKO and see what happens.

Edit: Can confirm that as @Headrip observed, the Kerbal explodes immediately on EVA while in orbit; here is a fresh output_log from that test:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/leefik22tluambf/output_log.txt?dl=0

(accidentally replaced the first output_log I posted, but I'll assume you downloaded that already)

And that's WITH Realistic Atmospheres? You mentioned Jool before. What was the altitude? 400 or lower maybe?

Edit: I don't see Realistic Atmospheres in that log

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Starwaster

[RocketRyleigh]

21 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

And that's WITH Realistic Atmospheres? You mentioned Jool before. What was the altitude? 400 or lower maybe?

Edit: I don't see Realistic Atmospheres in that log

 

My tests from today have all been with only DRE; when I tested in orbit at Jool, I'm pretty sure Realistic Atmospheres was still installed, and I set the orbit to 7000000 (going by memory, not in front of my computer right now, but it was set to just a bit higher than the lowest orbit the cheat menu will safely allow for Jool).

But I think the log I provided in my last post is more relevant, since it's only DRE installed and I got the same immediate exploding on EVA bug that @Headrip reported in orbit (which is more game-breaking than what I thought I saw at Jool).

For clarity, the last log was with DRE + MM only and in ~80km orbit around Kerbin, where Jeb exploded immediately on EVA.

Edit: The Jool thing might've been some interaction between Realistic Atmospheres and ReentryParticleEffect, and I don't think it's related to this bug.

Edited May 18, 2017 by RocketRyleigh

[Starwaster]

4 minutes ago, RocketRyleigh said:

My tests from today have all been with only DRE; when I tested in orbit at Jool, I'm pretty sure Realistic Atmospheres was still installed, and I set the orbit to 7000000 (going by memory, not in front of my computer right now, but it was set to just a bit higher than the lowest orbit the cheat menu will safely allow for Jool).

But I think the log I provided in my last post is more relevant, since it's only DRE installed and I got the same immediate exploding on EVA bug that @Headrip reported in orbit (which is more game-breaking than what I thought I saw at Jool).

For clarity, the last log was with DRE + MM only and in ~80km orbit around Kerbin, where Jeb exploded immediately on EVA.

I'm starting to get an idea of how this might be happening... probably because ModuleAeroReentry isn't initializing properly for Kerbals. Why they're getting singled out I don't have 100% worked out yet but there's a file you can download to fix it. It was going to go in the next update but I've been using it with 7.5.0 which is why I don't have exploding Kerbals, apparently.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/master/DeadlyReentry/DeadlyReentry-KerbalEVA.cfg

Copy that to your DeadlyReentry folder. You might want to take a minute to read its contents because it actually imposes some harsher limits on the Kerbal internal temperatures... namely, their absolute maximum limit is the temperature of boiling water. Their space suits (skin temp) is more resilient and has better emissive and absorptive properties (contrary to popular belief you can have differing values for each)

Edit: I made an edit to it a couple of minutes ago so make sure you have that one, in case you downloaded it while I was editing it.

[RocketRyleigh]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

I'm starting to get an idea of how this might be happening... probably because ModuleAeroReentry isn't initializing properly for Kerbals. Why they're getting singled out I don't have 100% worked out yet but there's a file you can download to fix it. It was going to go in the next update but I've been using it with 7.5.0 which is why I don't have exploding Kerbals, apparently.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/master/DeadlyReentry/DeadlyReentry-KerbalEVA.cfg

Copy that to your DeadlyReentry folder. You might want to take a minute to read its contents because it actually imposes some harsher limits on the Kerbal internal temperatures... namely, their absolute maximum limit is the temperature of boiling water. Their space suits (skin temp) is more resilient and has better emissive and absorptive properties (contrary to popular belief you can have differing values for each)

Edit: I made an edit to it a couple of minutes ago so make sure you have that one, in case you downloaded it while I was editing it.

Was just out walking the dog, so I missed the first upload of that cfg anyways  I'll grab it now and load up KSP.

Quote

"...it actually imposes some harsher limits on the Kerbal internal temperatures... namely, their absolute maximum limit is the temperature of boiling water. Their space suits (skin temp) is more resilient and has better emissive and absorptive properties (contrary to popular belief you can have differing values for each)"

Alright I'll definitely take a look, but on that description alone it sounds like a good direction to go IMO (I'm a "MOAR realism! MOAR challenge!" type of player ); harsher Kerbal temp limits just means stricter mission planning, which I enjoy, and really it makes more sense from a realism standpoint.

Edit: P.S., Glad you're getting somewhere in figuring it out; I hope my feedback was helpful. Thanks very much for your efforts!

Edited May 18, 2017 by RocketRyleigh

[RocketRyleigh]

@Starwaster Okay, so that cfg definitely solves the exploding issue, but has a minor consequence; I guess since you raised some temp values, the stock critical temperature gauge thinks it needs to be displayed for the Kerbal at all times. Is that an unavoidable byproduct of this fix, or just a result of a temporary solution (just out of curiosity; between F2 and Through The Eyes of a Kerbal, I could live with it if need be)?

Edit: In case it's helpful, the new Thermal Mass and Skin Thermal Mass values are 312.7 kj/K and 15.4 kj/K, respectively.

Also, it might be worth checking out this copy of DRE, which is 7.5.0 and in which the exploding issue never came up; it was downloaded a few days ago:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p0kphqe2t7cghg4/AAAOLbBScxXqMpzZUxlAxnAwa?dl=0

Edited May 18, 2017 by RocketRyleigh

[Starwaster]

33 minutes ago, RocketRyleigh said:

@Starwaster Okay, so that cfg definitely solves the exploding issue, but has a minor consequence; I guess since you raised some temp values, the stock critical temperature gauge thinks it needs to be displayed for the Kerbal at all times. Is that an unavoidable byproduct of this fix, or just a result of a temporary solution (just out of curiosity; between F2 and Through The Eyes of a Kerbal, I could live with it if need be)?

Make sure you've got the following two lines in there: There shouldnt be any temperature highlighting there...

%gaugeThresholdMult = 1.20460941

%edgeHighlightThresholdMult = 1.20460941

 

[RocketRyleigh]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

Make sure you've got the following two lines in there: There shouldnt be any temperature highlighting there...

%gaugeThresholdMult = 1.20460941

%edgeHighlightThresholdMult = 1.20460941

 

Hmm, weird, those two lines are definitely in there, but the temperature highlighting remains

If anyone else following this could test this fix as well, more data points would be very helpful:

3 hours ago, Starwaster said:

I'm starting to get an idea of how this might be happening... probably because ModuleAeroReentry isn't initializing properly for Kerbals. Why they're getting singled out I don't have 100% worked out yet but there's a file you can download to fix it. It was going to go in the next update but I've been using it with 7.5.0 which is why I don't have exploding Kerbals, apparently.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/master/DeadlyReentry/DeadlyReentry-KerbalEVA.cfg

Don't forget to check out that working copy of DRE 7.5.0 @Starwaster; maybe being able to check the before and after of whatever changed in the past week would be helpful.

[Gooner]

I had this issue last night while using DRE with RSS. I was able to Eva on the launch pad but after entering space any attempt at an Eva would result in my kerbal exploding instantly, even after landing back down to earth. Its as if the craft gets too hot to touch after liftoff.

 

This was with a fresh install (started a new save yesterday)

Edited May 18, 2017 by Gooner

[Headrip]

7 hours ago, RocketRyleigh said:

@Starwaster Okay, so that cfg definitely solves the exploding issue, but has a minor consequence; I guess since you raised some temp values, the stock critical temperature gauge thinks it needs to be displayed for the Kerbal at all times. Is that an unavoidable byproduct of this fix, or just a result of a temporary solution (just out of curiosity; between F2 and Through The Eyes of a Kerbal, I could live with it if need be)?

Edit: In case it's helpful, the new Thermal Mass and Skin Thermal Mass values are 312.7 kj/K and 15.4 kj/K, respectively.

Also, it might be worth checking out this copy of DRE, which is 7.5.0 and in which the exploding issue never came up; it was downloaded a few days ago:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p0kphqe2t7cghg4/AAAOLbBScxXqMpzZUxlAxnAwa?dl=0

Can confirm this too, the cfg solves the exploding issue but the temperature gauge shows up on EVA at about 80k orbit around Kerbin.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Headrip

[Starwaster]

@RocketRyleigh @Headrip @Gooner

What temperature is the Kerbal at when he gets highlighted? (both internal and skin)

Edited May 18, 2017 by Starwaster

[Headrip]

@Starwaster

Recreating it is not very consistent but I just got a highlighted kerbal.

Internal temp: 323.1 K

All Skin: 302.x K

That is on EVA while landed on Kerbin.

Edit: Got some data from EVA in Kerbin orbit too

Internal temp: 323.1 K

All Skin 284.x K

Edited May 19, 2017 by Headrip

[Starwaster]

7 hours ago, Headrip said:

@Starwaster

Recreating it is not very consistent but I just got a highlighted kerbal.

Internal temp: 323.1 K

All Skin: 302.x K

That is on EVA while landed on Kerbin.

Edit: Got some data from EVA in Kerbin orbit too

Internal temp: 323.1 K

All Skin 284.x K

Ok so actually this seems like it is working as designed. 323.1 K is approx 120 Fahrenheit. Fortunately, the part of the code that would start doing internal damage isn't in place yet, partly because I wanted to be sure how Kerbals would interact with it. Basically though, IRL, tissue damage starts at 317 Kelvin. So that's not even a high fever, that's like scalding water hot. He's not boiling yet but he's hurting pretty badly.

I don't know why he'd be getting so hot in Kerbin orbit. I looked at your logs and MM cache and I don't see any mods that I recognize as being capable of doing that and your physics globals config has all stock values.

Is timewarp past 100x a requirement for reproducing that temperature?

[Headrip]

On 5/19/2017 at 10:48 PM, Starwaster said:

Ok so actually this seems like it is working as designed. 323.1 K is approx 120 Fahrenheit. Fortunately, the part of the code that would start doing internal damage isn't in place yet, partly because I wanted to be sure how Kerbals would interact with it. Basically though, IRL, tissue damage starts at 317 Kelvin. So that's not even a high fever, that's like scalding water hot. He's not boiling yet but he's hurting pretty badly.

I don't know why he'd be getting so hot in Kerbin orbit. I looked at your logs and MM cache and I don't see any mods that I recognize as being capable of doing that and your physics globals config has all stock values.

Is timewarp past 100x a requirement for reproducing that temperature?

Timewarp past 100x doesn't seem to be a requirement for reproducing that. I'm sorry that I can't be more specific but it seems to happen randomly.

I also noticed that sometimes when I go to fly one of my already orbiting crafts it might be "on fire" as in having the appearance of an overheated part during reentry but it wont' take any damage. If that happens and I go back to tracking station and then fly the craft again the fire will be gone.

Lastly a couple of times when I had a contract to rescue a stranded Kerbal I found that if it had that "on fire" effect and I got close to it while in time warp it would explode.

Again, sorry that I can't be more specific but these instances seem to happen randomly, I haven't found a reliable way to reproduce them.

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, Headrip said:

Timewarp past 100x doesn't seem to be a requirement for reproducing that. I'm sorry that I can't be more specific but it seems to happen randomly.

I also noticed that sometimes when I go to fly one of my already orbiting crafts it might be "on fire" as in having the appearance of an overheated part during reentry but it wont' take any damage. If that happens and I go back to tracking station and then fly the craft again the fire will be gone.

Lastly a couple of times when I had a contract to rescue a stranded Kerbal I found that if it had that "on fire" effect and I got close to it while in time warp it would explode.

Again, sorry that I can't be more specific but these instances seem to happen randomly, I haven't found a reliable way to reproduce them.

Any craft? Not just Kerbals? It's been a long time since there's been any report of inappropriate fire effects. (though if you ARE on fire and turn on Ignore Max Temp cheat then fire effects don't get removed until both the cheat is disabled AND temperatures lower enough to not be on fire, but that's the only situation I know of and it's been low priority)

Fire also only happens if skin temperatures pass a threshold determined its maxSkinOperationalTemp value, with the exception of the previously mentioned bug that was affecting Kerbals.

I have a preview of the next version that's not even in pre-release. You can try it if you want:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2kiug1k6opjvgqv/DeadlyReentry.dll?dl=1

I just added some code to it to keep Kerbal temperatures stable if in time warp. Maybe that will help

It also has a new directional damage system in place but you probably won't 'see' it 

[Bornholio]

This .cfg fixes my exploding kerbal problem on a RO/RP-0 Dev build install.  Troubleshooting Pics.  Thanks for the fix. 

They mostly exploded. Various altitudes and conditions (Landed, flying, orbit, lunar SOI).  The latest round was on way to the moon.  Flaming in orbit, exploded after getting to Moon SOI.  Time warp didn't seem to affect it. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Bornholio

[Starwaster]

Re: KSP 1.3.0

As everyone is probably aware of by now, KSP 1.3.0 has been released

The latest build of DRE is 99.999999% certain not to be compatible with 1.3.0 at all on the grounds that anything not re-compiled for KSP 1.3.0 will probably CRASH the game before it gets to the main menu. I don't know for certain that it will crash 100% of mods so I allowed for 0.000001% chance that it wouldn't, but let's be honest: It's probably going to crash 100% of anything not recompiled against the 1.3.0 binaries.

My plans are to finish work on the current build of DRE (which abbreviation I notice STILL hasn't gotten any mouse-over abbreviation love  ) release that update for KSP 1.2.2 followed by an immediate release for KSP 1.3.0

That probably should take less than a week.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Starwaster

[msnbcorp]

Thank you for you great job ! waiting for your 1.3 release impatiently^^

[Russos]

Stock KSP 1.2.2 x64 + MM 2.7.6 + KSP AVC 1.1.6.2 + Deadly Reentry v7.5.0 (manual or CKAN install)

When an astronaut in EVA from pod - he explodes o___O

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dmldko88nwgn3xt/output_log.txt?dl=0