[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starstrider42]

You shouldn't need to upgrade to the new format at all.

Agreed. I'm on 2.0.6 at the moment, and the only change I needed to make was removing a space from one of my homemade configs. Anything officially associated with a mod worked fine as-was.

[NathanKell]

GregroxMun: do it in flight. It doesn't work in other scenes.

Kalista: Thank you for an excellent bug report! Might be a drag issue, yes, since the "sudden onset of massive drag" seems to be related to weird interaction between ship design and FAR. What I'd like you to do is try that again with the DRE debug GUI up (ALT-D-R) so when you right-click on things it will tell you whether they're shielded.

That said, the shielding algorithm needs replacement (which ferram is doing) since it raycasts against a part's center (and so that antenna might well count as shielding the probe core, since it shields the center of the probe core).

Also, you have errors in your long from Distant Objects, from CLS, from KerbQuake, and from Final Frontier. Might want to show this log to those authors as well.

Einarr: as Taki117 and Starstrider42 say, MM2.1+ does not require any new format of anything, it merely supports mod makers using more commands. If you do upgrade, however, make sure you get the latest (2.1.2) ModuleManager and delete older copies (including the one in DRE).

[Kalista]

Video (might still be uploading/processing when viewed)

http://youtu.be/lgVEgfFN_Aw

Output log

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwYzqg0314S0aEtLRnEtcm4zeUE/edit?usp=sharing

Craft File same as before

Only diff when I reproduced it was the craft didn't shred the craft ( prob because I didn't time warp the whole way down when it was obvious the craft wasn't burning up)and the 4 other mods throwing errors were removed for the test.

[Taki117]

SNIP

Einarr: as Taki117 and Starstrider42 say' date=' MM2.1+ does not require any new format of anything, it merely supports mod makers using more commands. If you do upgrade, however, make sure you get the latest (2.1.2) ModuleManager and delete older copies (including the one in DRE).[/quote']

I can't find the 2.1.2 in the MM thread, do you happen to have a link to the specific post?

[panarchist]

NathanKell: have you ever considered extending the heat model in DREC? I'm looking at trying to write a plugin to support heat generation and removal through heat sinks and radiators, and ideally it would be friendly with at least one other mod utilizing heat - DREC is the obvious choice, or possibly KSPI. Mostly what intrigues me about DREC is that it tracks temperatures on a per-part basis, and already handles part damage due to overheating. I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel - mine would cover putting heat into a part or removing heat from a part, and the particulars of radiating heat (Boltzman's law, etc).

There's been a few people lamenting the lack of a heat model in orbit, who have no desire to use KSPI. Of course, if you're already investigating this for RSS/RO, then you might already have some ideas on those lines.

[Starstrider42]

There's been a few people lamenting the lack of a heat model in orbit, who have no desire to use KSPI. Of course, if you're already investigating this for RSS/RO, then you might already have some ideas on those lines.

By "heat model in orbit", do you mean things like parts being able to shade other parts from sunlight?

[NathanKell]

Kalista: thanks!

I wonder if that antenna has its physics disabled; DRE won't add heat to physicsless parts, which means they make excellent shields. It's a C32 from RT2, right? Have you changed its stats at all, or added any mods that change its stats?

In the VAB, what is the C32's max temperature listed as?

Taki117: check the last page or so; swamp_ig just released 2.1.3.

panarchist: Actually yes! ialdabaoth has a partly-written successor to DRE that turns off the stock heating model and allows us to substitute our own, which sounds like a great springboard for you. If you want to take that on, we'd both be super-happy! (As would basically everyone else ever.)

[Kalista]

Antenna is the default squad one with no changes at all ( its deployed in both tests ).

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/577896547095569452/C2840586C1061DCC0126E7578F2F81F8606F5945/

[Starwaster]

Kalista: thanks!

I wonder if that antenna has its physics disabled; DRE won't add heat to physicsless parts, which means they make excellent shields. It's a C32 from RT2, right? Have you changed its stats at all, or added any mods that change its stats?

In the VAB, what is the C32's max temperature listed as?

Taki117: check the last page or so; swamp_ig just released 2.1.3.

panarchist: Actually yes! ialdabaoth has a partly-written successor to DRE that turns off the stock heating model and allows us to substitute our own, which sounds like a great springboard for you. If you want to take that on, we'd both be super-happy! (As would basically everyone else ever.)

isnt there a way to make raycasting ignore physicsless arts?

also if the long awaited 'real heating' emerges, I hope we're taking into account specific heat and not just 'temperature'

[NathanKell]

Kalista: ah, ok. Yep, that would explain it: SQUAD set the antenna to physicsless in .23.5.

Starwaster: perhaps. I'll have to check. Since ferram's rewriting the shielding code, though, it's not a super-high priority if the fix doesn't turn out to be trivial.

And yes, I would hope so too. Basically, ialdabaoth zeroed out stock heat dissipation/transfer and replaced them with blank methods we can put what we like in.

[Kalista]

So will removing the PhysicsSignificance = 1 line in the cfg make the antenna melt off again ? If so I'm doing it so I can watch my sats blow up on reentry again if I put an antenna dead center.

[NathanKell]

Yep.

(10char)

[panarchist]

isnt there a way to make raycasting ignore physicsless arts?

also if the long awaited 'real heating' emerges, I hope we're taking into account specific heat and not just 'temperature'

Well, mine will be... slow to see the light of day (haven't coded in a while, and this is my project to get back into it), but yes, I want to write one which takes into account specific heat. I want to be able to have radiators based on ammonia (ISS) or Liquid Sodium or Liquid Lithium (more advanced concepts like ICAN-II or HOPE), which all have *very* different specific heats, operating temperatures, and radiative characteristics. Craft should generate heat due to kerbals, due to electronics, (all electrical use eventually becomes heat inside the craft except that which is radiated away by communications or science instruments) and due to certain other proceses (most exothermic chemical proceses); and they should lose heat due to radiation in vacuum, and due to convection when operating in an atmosphere. I expect I have a lot of work ahead of me.

Initially, it will not account for parts being shaded by other parts, but I'd like it to eventually - craft heat levels vary significantly depending on whether or not the craft is in sunlight. Anyway, it's in extremely early stages right now - at the moment, I'm trying to determine how the logic should work, and to do that, I have to learn more about how plugins work with the KSP API. That's one reason why I'd rather skip some (most) of that by piggybacking off an established mod with existing mechanics - if possible. AFAIK, DREC and KSPI are the only mods dealing with heat, and assigning damage to overheated parts. Unfortunately, KSPI deals with "waste heat" on a "whole vessel" level rather than part-by-part.

Anyway, I should have a mod dev thread up soon, and I'll stop cluttering this one with things specific to that - just wanted to get an idea as to whether DREC currently supported any heat inputs/outputs beyond those generated by re-entry.

[NathanKell]

panarchist: that sounds cool! Let me send you the framework ialdabaoth made, it sounds perfect for your needs. Best would be if you could PM me an email, but I can also toss them up somewhere and PM you a link.

Also, I hope you'll consider a way to simulate single parts that are passively thermally controlled (for example, Explorer 1, Pioneer 3/4, etc).

Deadly Reentry really is two different mods (and this is why ialdabaoth wanted to separate them out, into RealHeat and RealDamage): one that deals with shockwave heating (and heat shielding), and one that deals with damage from high temperature and high G forces (on parts and on crew). The two operate basically independently even now; ialdabaoth's plan is to have them in separate plugins.

Also, regarding reentry heat, swamp_ig and ferram4 (and I, although I don't really have the math for it, so I mostly listen ) are trying to figure out a better heating model for reentry heat. Discussion is usually on #kspmodders on espernet.

[The Destroyer]

ArcFurnace: Yes, they are for RO.

sumghai: I'll check out how InfiniteDice's mod works. Thanks for the tipoff.

The Destroyer: Output_log.txt please.

Darn, should've checked back here sooner, didn't see your post, I've changed my mods a lot since then

[Synthesis]

Has anyone made any progress adapting the KSO Mini Shuttle to work natively with the mod? In my limited experience, the greatest constraint seems to be the lack of shielding for the landing gear (at least forward landing gear) and the nosecone--the KSO seems able to survive a 'reasonable' controlled spaceplane reentry otherwise from the get-go. Is it as simple as making those particular parts super heat resistant?

[panarchist]

panarchist: that sounds cool! Let me send you the framework ialdabaoth made, it sounds perfect for your needs. Best would be if you could PM me an email, but I can also toss them up somewhere and PM you a link.

Also, I hope you'll consider a way to simulate single parts that are passively thermally controlled (for example, Explorer 1, Pioneer 3/4, etc).

Deadly Reentry really is two different mods (and this is why ialdabaoth wanted to separate them out, into RealHeat and RealDamage): one that deals with shockwave heating (and heat shielding), and one that deals with damage from high temperature and high G forces (on parts and on crew). The two operate basically independently even now; ialdabaoth's plan is to have them in separate plugins.

Also, regarding reentry heat, swamp_ig and ferram4 (and I, although I don't really have the math for it, so I mostly listen ) are trying to figure out a better heating model for reentry heat. Discussion is usually on #kspmodders on espernet.

Email sent via PM. Yeah, I need to plug myself into the kspmodders group.

[Starwaster]

Has anyone made any progress adapting the KSO Mini Shuttle to work natively with the mod? In my limited experience, the greatest constraint seems to be the lack of shielding for the landing gear (at least forward landing gear) and the nosecone--the KSO seems able to survive a 'reasonable' controlled spaceplane reentry otherwise from the get-go. Is it as simple as making those particular parts super heat resistant?

Try this one. And also, previously I said the fuselage bellies of space planes was 0,0,-1. That's totally wrong. That's not the way I've been doing it and I'm not sure what I was thinking (when I said that). It's 0,0,1 (so 45 degrees forward/bottom would be 0, 1, 1)

DREC.KSO.SW.cfg

This overrides existing heat shields such as the KSO already comes with. Also deletes the AblativeShielding resource as it is not needed and adds unnecessary mass.

Tail rudder also given minimal omnidirectional shield. This will not be sufficient if it that part is exposed to sustained reentry effects; it's only to protect against intermittent exposure, so keep it properly occluded during reentry.

// Starwaster's version 2.0 of KSO's DREC config.
// Removes existing PartModule ModuleHeatShield and removes AblativeShielding resource.

@PART[thrustmaxkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1800
@MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
{
@heatProduction = 215
}
}

@PART[boosterkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 2520
@MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
{
@heatProduction = 250
}
}

@PART[omskso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 2220
@MODULE[ModuleEngines]
{
@heatProduction = 150
}
}

@PART[avionicskso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1450
}

@PART[tailrudderkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1450
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 0, 0 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.05 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}



@PART[KSO_Cabin]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}

@PART[cgholdkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}

@PART[rearkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}

@PART[leftwingkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}

@PART[rightwingkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}


@PART[noseconekso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}

@PART[nosegearkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}

@PART[rightgearkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}

@PART[leftgearkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}



@PART[rearplanekso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}

PART[leftelevkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}
}
PART[rightelevkso]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]:FINAL
{
@maxTemp = 1500
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
!RESOURCE[AblativeShielding]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleHeatShield
direction = 0, 1, 1 // underside of fuselage
reflective = 0.25 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle
}

}

Edited May 19, 2014 by Starwaster

[keizerdoc]

Has anyone ran into the problem where when you start a career mode save, you don't have access to the 1.25 metre heat shield, and if you buy it from the R&D Centre, you still don't have access?

Sounds like a bad install, try reinstalling it again and see if that helps.

I did. Same thing.

keizerdoc: yep, bad install. You didn't follow install directions. You need to extract the zip to your GameData folder, which will create a DeadlyReentry folder in the GameData folder. That's it. Don't do anything more or less.

[facepalm] You don't quite get it, do you? I put it in the GameData folder. It works, I just can't get the 1.25 metre heatshield.

Edit: Deadly Reentry works, but I don't get the 1.25 metre heat shield at the beginning. Only the 0.625 metre heat shield. I see it in the catalogue in the VAB, but it says I have to buy it at the R&D Centre. I do that, and it still says I need to get it from the R&D centre.

keizerdoc: yep, bad install. You didn't follow install directions. You need to extract the zip to your GameData folder, which will create a DeadlyReentry folder in the GameData folder. That's it. Don't do anything more or less.

I did that. I'll show you a screenshot of the issue.

Here is before the 1.25 metre heat shield was bought from the R&D Centre:

It's not bought, so I can't select it.

I bought it:

Shows as not bought.

Here's after I bought it:

Still doesn't show up as usable.

Edited May 20, 2014 by sjwt

[Taki117]

Has anyone ran into the problem where when you start a career mode save, you don't have access to the 1.25 metre heat shield, and if you buy it from the R&D Centre, you still don't have access?

Sounds like a bad install, try reinstalling it again and see if that helps.

[NathanKell]

keizerdoc: yep, bad install. You didn't follow install directions. You need to extract the zip to your GameData folder, which will create a DeadlyReentry folder in the GameData folder. That's it. Don't do anything more or less.

[Frederf]

Has anyone ran into the problem where when you start a career mode save, you don't have access to the 1.25 metre heat shield, and if you buy it from the R&D Centre, you still don't have access?

I got this with procedural fairings. Try editing your save file and deleting the lines where parts are purchased under certain techs. Then they should be available for purchase again, even if the helpful reminder number isn't on the tech to show purchasable parts.

[keizerdoc]

keizerdoc: yep, bad install. You didn't follow install directions. You need to extract the zip to your GameData folder, which will create a DeadlyReentry folder in the GameData folder. That's it. Don't do anything more or less.

That's what I did. It's not a bad install, it's a bug in Deadly Reentry.

[taniwha]

keizerdoc: it's a bad install. Apparently the problem is caused by there being two such heat-shields somewhere.

[keizerdoc]

Oh. Derp. Forgot to delete the last installation's parts.