[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[SpacedInvader]

I'm starting to be skeptical of getting around this through increased deformity. Or at least JUST deformity.

There's also:

simplexHeightStart

simplexHeightEnd

Found the planet editor I was thinking of and have been experimenting with those values in realtime. No real results yet but you might want to try negative values of simplexHeightStart. I'm noticing for Duna that the scaled up radius is pulling terrain farther from 'sea level' than I remember. Lowest altitudes are a good 6km above sea level which would only serve to flatten it. Does that sound about right to you? Or am I coming down with the dumb?

It just occurred to me that I'd really like to try tweaking simplex frequency and persistence as both of those seem to have a significant effect on PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute. Unfortunately, neither of these are yet defined within the dll to be edited.

[SpacedInvader]

Ralathon: if you're doing this for RSS proper, you should use Mars's real heightmap anyway.

But if you want Duna's, kind of a problem, in that that's a non-GameData asset (and thus we'd be extracting it out of the procected Assets files). As a workaround, create a new RSS CFG that only features Duna, and inside only an Export node (copy from Kerbin's, change fooExport to Export); also disable oceans in the node. Then you can set desired resolution and max/min heights (guess?) and you'll get a height map export based off the combination of the original heightmap and all Duna's original PQSMods. You'll also get a color map.

I'm assuming this process will work for the rest of the CB's as well?

[Nicholander]

No, when i move the camera i can't see it. So i don't know if it is underground or not.

[Nicholander]

DarthVader: Ferram made the PSLV (as the text above the pics mentions). He used Stretchy SRBs/tanks, procedural fairings, and standard, his own, and blackheart612's textures for them. He probably also custom-made the liquid fuel engine's stats for the job (I can't make out which engine it is).

The AJ260s are also Stretchy SRBs.

To those having problems moving KSC: If it appears under ground, you need to either fuss with the radius offset, or set repositionToSphereSurface = true.

Ralathon: if you're doing this for RSS proper, you should use Mars's real heightmap anyway.

But if you want Duna's, kind of a problem, in that that's a non-GameData asset (and thus we'd be extracting it out of the procected Assets files). As a workaround, create a new RSS CFG that only features Duna, and inside only an Export node (copy from Kerbin's, change fooExport to Export); also disable oceans in the node. Then you can set desired resolution and max/min heights (guess?) and you'll get a height map export based off the combination of the original heightmap and all Duna's original PQSMods. You'll also get a color map.

NathanKell, i tried doing that, and it worked. But it seems that there's a lot of lag and KSC seems to be floating on top of the trees. (I tried to make KSC at Baikonur.)

[Ralathon]

Ralathon: if you're doing this for RSS proper, you should use Mars's real heightmap anyway.

But if you want Duna's, kind of a problem, in that that's a non-GameData asset (and thus we'd be extracting it out of the procected Assets files). As a workaround, create a new RSS CFG that only features Duna, and inside only an Export node (copy from Kerbin's, change fooExport to Export); also disable oceans in the node. Then you can set desired resolution and max/min heights (guess?) and you'll get a height map export based off the combination of the original heightmap and all Duna's original PQSMods. You'll also get a color map.

Thanks that worked like a charm. I'm using the Duna heightmap for now since that matches with the scaled space model. Terrain looks much better now:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

If anyone else wants to try it: Just dump THIS heightmap in your RealSolarSystem\Plugins\PluginData folder and copy paste the following PQS code to Duna's RSS config.

PQS
{
Duna
{
maxLevel = 14
maxQuadLenghtsPerFrame = 0.8 //0.03 -- and yes, typo is correct.
//visRadSeaLevelValue = 7.0 //5.0 // the max visRad
//visRadAltitudeValue = 1.7999999523162842 // the minimum visRad
//visRadAltitudeMax = 15000.0 //10000.0

PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute // doubles
{
deformity = 900 //1000 // 485
persistence = 0.7 // 0.60000002384185791
frequency = 36 //12 // 24
}
PQSMod_VertexHeightNoiseVertHeightCurve2 // floats
{
deformity = 5000 //6000 // 4000
ridgedAddFrequency = 48 // 48
ridgedSubFrequency = 32 // 32
//ridgedAddOctaves = 8 // 6 INT
simplexHeightStart = 800 // 800
simplexHeightEnd = 9000 // 4600

}
PQSMod_VertexRidgedAltitudeCurve // floats
{
deformity = 950 // 1800 //1100 // 750
ridgedAddFrequency = 140 // 25 // 140
//ridgedAddOctaves = 8 // 3 INT
simplexHeightStart = 500 // 0
simplexHeightEnd = 9000 // 6000
}
PQSMod_VertexHeightMap // doubles
{
heightMapOffset = -2150.0 //-2000.0
heightMapDeformity = 17300.0 //15600.0 //7000 // 5000
heightMap = GameData/RealSolarSystem/Plugins/PluginData/DunaHeight.png
}
PQSMod_AltitudeAlpha // doubles
{
atmosphereDepth = 6000 // 4000
}
}
KerbinOcean
{
PQSMod_AerialPerspectiveMaterial // floats
{
atmosphereDepth = 7500 // 5000, scale height in m
}
}
}

I made the heightmap by simply scaling the exported heightmap of Duna to 8192x4096 and then adding some noise with this matlab code:

[FileName,PathName] = uigetfile;
I=imread(strcat(PathName,FileName));
I=double(I(:,:,1))/256;


%Magic happens
[m,n] = size(I);
I = min((rand(m,n)-0.5).*(I.^2)+I,1);




%Build checkerboard testmatrix
%m=8192;
%n=4096;
%I=xor(repmat(mod(1:m,2), [n 1]),repmat(mod(1:n,2)', [1 m]));


%Write to output
imwrite(I,'output.png');

%Read the heightmap and convert to matrix for ease of use

which adds stronger noise as the terrain gets higher.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Ralathon

[Omicron314]

I am having a similar problem with this latest version as SlimeCrusher. The planet remains as Kerbin, and the KSC is underground (setting setToSphereSurface doesn't remedy this). The planet is real-sized and in its proper orbit, as are the inner planets, but all the planets beyond Kerbin's orbit (Duna, Jool, Eeloo) are in their normal-sized orbits. No object other than Kerbin has been resized. Any idea about what could be going on?

[Green Skull]

First up I have to say thanks to NathanKell for making an awesome, much needed addon and his advice so far

So I'm ready to show my RSS config that I have been working on. Let me make this clear from the start I'm not an astrophysicist or an expert in thermodynamics or anything even remotely related to planets, spaceships or KSP. Also I'm number dyslexic which makes some things more challenging than they need to be...

My aims with this config:

1. To configure RSS for stock KSP parts and ships / launch systems made for the standard game like the KSO Shuttle, Bobcat and FASA rockets etc.

2. Real planets in same layout with similar orbits plus the visual enhancements and tweaks RSS brings.

3. I'm hoping this is what sets mine apart from others... Standard KSP has gotten a bit easy for me so I've configured RSS for an increased difficulty factor - extra delta v on take off and landing, messed with atmospheres to hopefully add to the difficulty.

4. Maintain a "Gamey" feel with Sim qualities.

This is the U.S. version so launch from the cape.. I'll do a Russian version after some initial feedback. I've been keeping an eye on this thread and have applied a few tweaks I have seen. I also made my own through experimentation and pure kerbal slaughter...

Recommended mods list is :

Deadly Re-Entry set to your level. Aimed at using with stock settings tho.

Real Chutes.

The excellent moon textures posted by AndreyATGB posted a few pages back and a nice skybox (Space Kraken sent me one and since I compressed it the stars actually twinkle!!!!!! I can send if you like)

Download - Green_Skull_RSS_Alpha

I welcome any constructive criticism, but please be mindful of my original goals... I haven't had time to go to the moon or any planets yet but I applied a similar (in theory ) formulae to these too.

[SpacedInvader]

@Ralathon: How does this method handle large scale terrain features (canyons, mountains, etc.)? Up to this point my experiments with PQS editing have never resulted in acceptable definition in large features, instead just giving a little hint of their existence with color and minor variation on elevation. I'm really looking for a method that will output canyons and hills where they exist without having to exaggerate their vertical dimension to obscene proportions.

[Ralathon]

@Ralathon: How does this method handle large scale terrain features (canyons, mountains, etc.)? Up to this point my experiments with PQS editing have never resulted in acceptable definition in large features, instead just giving a little hint of their existence with color and minor variation on elevation. I'm really looking for a method that will output canyons and hills where they exist without having to exaggerate their vertical dimension to obscene proportions.

Right now the distortion effect depends purely on altitude in the original heightmap. So highlands will be rough, crater bottoms and low areas are smooth. So if you land a probe in the 'Valles Marines' area of Duna you'll see a significant difference in landscape compared to a landing in one of the mountain ranges (see image album).

However, note that all the surface features are 10 times as big. This means it is much harder to make out the lay of the land. It's easy to see you're in a crater with a diameter of 1km, not so easy to see a 10km crater. So while you'll certainly notice the smooth terrain in valles marines, and you'll notice the terrain gradually get rougher as you drive out of the valley, you won't hit a sheer cliff at any point.

It should be doable though, it just requires a bit more advanced image processing than I use now. For example, to get good looking crater walls I could scan the original heightmap for all points below a certain height to get the edges, then I just need to add a static value to everything on one side of those edges to create steep cliffs there.

Do note that the exact thing you're asking for is impossible. You simply can't have the exact same landscape as the original without distorting the height to obscene levels. I get around that with the random function, where you used to have 1 big mountain you'll see many small hills afterwards.

[SpacedInvader]

Right now the distortion effect depends purely on altitude in the original heightmap. So highlands will be rough, crater bottoms and low areas are smooth. So if you land a probe in the 'Valles Marines' area of Duna you'll see a significant difference in landscape compared to a landing in one of the mountain ranges (see image album).

However, note that all the surface features are 10 times as big. This means it is much harder to make out the lay of the land. It's easy to see you're in a crater with a diameter of 1km, not so easy to see a 10km crater. So while you'll certainly notice the smooth terrain in valles marines, and you'll notice the terrain gradually get rougher as you drive out of the valley, you won't hit a sheer cliff at any point.

It should be doable though, it just requires a bit more advanced image processing than I use now. For example, to get good looking crater walls I could scan the original heightmap for all points below a certain height to get the edges, then I just need to add a static value to everything on one side of those edges to create steep cliffs there.

Do note that the exact thing you're asking for is impossible. You simply can't have the exact same landscape as the original without distorting the height to obscene levels. I get around that with the random function, where you used to have 1 big mountain you'll see many small hills afterwards.

I know that you just can't have the same landscape as you do in stock, but there was has to be a decent compromise. Think about large craters around the world, they may not look like we'll defined impact craters like the found in Arizona, but you can often see the rim in the form of a circular mountain range. I'm also thinking about the way depression features like the twin craters on the moon are displayed. In their current form, they do appear depressed, but only slightly, completely removing the impression that they were impact events at all.

My thinking is the solution to this is much like you described, where certain situations are interpreted as sheer walls where others are seen as gentle slopes. I would approach this by working with the rigid altitude curve though, as I have a feeling it can be tweaked to constrain certain regions of the terrain into steeper walls rather than gentle slopes.

[NathanKell]

SpacedInvader: Yes, every CB (*Except Jool*, which doesn't have a PQS) can have an Export node.

Ralathon: that's quite interesting! Until we get the other PQSMods working better I think RSS should go with your solution. Apologies for harshing on it earlier!

Omicron314: Sounds like you maybe installed it in a different folder. Install exactly as readme instructs. If you still have trouble, post your output_log.txt

Green Skull: Cool! (A note about those moon textures--check out my post a couple pages back where I explain what has to be done to the normal map for it to work right. The texture as uploaded has those 90-degrees-off normals.)

[Ralathon]

I know that you just can't have the same landscape as you do in stock, but there was has to be a decent compromise. Think about large craters around the world, they may not look like we'll defined impact craters like the found in Arizona, but you can often see the rim in the form of a circular mountain range. I'm also thinking about the way depression features like the twin craters on the moon are displayed. In their current form, they do appear depressed, but only slightly, completely removing the impression that they were impact events at all.

My thinking is the solution to this is much like you described, where certain situations are interpreted as sheer walls where others are seen as gentle slopes. I would approach this by working with the rigid altitude curve though, as I have a feeling it can be tweaked to constrain certain regions of the terrain into steeper walls rather than gentle slopes.

I'll see if I can cook up something during the night/tomorrow. No guarantees it'll look good though, I suspect the stock features are just too big to be distinct on RSS scales.

Ralathon: that's quite interesting! Until we get the other PQSMods working better I think RSS should go with your solution. Apologies for harshing on it earlier!

No problem. I'd be careful implementing it as the default solution though. This requires all CB's to have their own high def heightmaps and I don't know how heavy that'll be on your RAM usage. You can probably get away with 4096 on some of the smaller bodies, but anything Mars sized and up really needs 8192 to look decent.

[Starwaster]

I think I've got my valley back on Duna.

Increased the basic height field deformity by 10 to 80000 and offset it with-5000 (I think...)

Haven't checked the rest of the planet and the other PQS mods are untouched as yet.

I think we should increase base pressure to... 0.011?

Of course I realize eventually you'll want a mars map.

[Kerbal01]

DarthVader: Ferram made the PSLV (as the text above the pics mentions). He used Stretchy SRBs/tanks, procedural fairings, and standard, his own, and blackheart612's textures for them. He probably also custom-made the liquid fuel engine's stats for the job (I can't make out which engine it is).

The AJ260s are also Stretchy SRBs.

sorry... They looked like they had made the parts themselves. I'd still be interested in the textures if they have them.

[SpacedInvader]

I think I've got my valley back on Duna.

Increased the basic height field deformity by 10 to 80000 and offset it with-5000 (I think...)

Haven't checked the rest of the planet and the other PQS mods are untouched as yet.

I think we should increase base pressure to... 0.011?

Of course I realize eventually you'll want a mars map.

This is exactly what I did to get features back on the Mun which was great visually, but as NathanKell pointed out, means that the highest point on Duna I this case would now be 80km which is quite tall.

I'm thinking that the best the we're going to be able to get out of this is better definition near canyon walls and/or around the biggest mountain ranges and even that is going to be a compromise rather than a proper solution. That being said, I'm starting to think about the possibility of negative elevations for some features like craters or canyons. If done properly, it may allow for smaller vertical deformity while also allowing deeper, more defined features.

[Dirt_Merchant]

Ok, so for give me if this has indeed been asked about, I have done my diligence and searched the thread, but have come up empty handed.

My goals is to employ the 6.4:1 rescale of RSS, but with the earth map. I have been able to add the earth textures to the map screen, but in flight and in effect kerbin is still very much kerbin, albeit a much larger version of itself. Is there a simple fix for this, or does my desire require a more involved config edit? If indeed it does require the edit, I shall endevour to complete it. However, if its a simple switcher job, ill be stoked to have it. Thanks natekell and team, you make this game kick so much more ass!

[SlimeCrusher]

I am having a similar problem with this latest version as SlimeCrusher. The planet remains as Kerbin, and the KSC is underground (setting setToSphereSurface doesn't remedy this). The planet is real-sized and in its proper orbit, as are the inner planets, but all the planets beyond Kerbin's orbit (Duna, Jool, Eeloo) are in their normal-sized orbits. No object other than Kerbin has been resized. Any idea about what could be going on?

That happens when you're about to run out of ram i've noticed, i deleted 1 or 2 useless mods at it worked fine, so try that out

[SpacedInvader]

That happens when you're about to run out of ram i've noticed, i deleted 1 or 2 useless mods at it worked fine, so try that out

I highly recommend trying the WIP Load on Demand Mod... My GameData folder is almost 5GB and I almost never get OOM crashes.

[SlimeCrusher]

I highly recommend trying the WIP Load on Demand Mod... My GameData folder is almost 5GB and I almost never get OOM crashes.

Well i only have 2 GBs of ram, so i can get half the mods a guy with 4+ GBs can get

I'll try that mod out, thanks!

[Starwaster]

This is exactly what I did to get features back on the Mun which was great visually, but as NathanKell pointed out, means that the highest point on Duna I this case would now be 80km which is quite tall.

I'm thinking that the best the we're going to be able to get out of this is better definition near canyon walls and/or around the biggest mountain ranges and even that is going to be a compromise rather than a proper solution. That being said, I'm starting to think about the possibility of negative elevations for some features like craters or canyons. If done properly, it may allow for smaller vertical deformity while also allowing deeper, more defined features.

That's why I gave it a negative offset. I'm going to experiment with other values. Increase the offset amount to at least half... currently it's at -5000 offset. Not sure those particular values are recognized by RSS; I'm using the planet editor to edit them. The valley I'm targeting is one of several that are good landing spots because of their low elevations. This one is near the equator and requires a little care to make sure you don't clip the edge of the cliff coming in. You probably know the one.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I am having a similar problem with this latest version as SlimeCrusher. The planet remains as Kerbin, and the KSC is underground (setting setToSphereSurface doesn't remedy this). The planet is real-sized and in its proper orbit, as are the inner planets, but all the planets beyond Kerbin's orbit (Duna, Jool, Eeloo) are in their normal-sized orbits. No object other than Kerbin has been resized. Any idea about what could be going on?

That happens when you're about to run out of ram i've noticed, i deleted 1 or 2 useless mods at it worked fine, so try that out

It could be a RAM issue caused by the large image files used by Kerbin but it's also possible there's an error in the RealSolarSystem.cfg file. In either event, the problem is actually happening when that file is being parsed. The error halts parsing with the result that everything in the configs after the error don't get processed. Check output_log.txt and look for errors. Memory errors or nullreference errors. (not ksp.log, which is near useless. output_log.txt)

[Ralathon]

That's why I gave it a negative offset. I'm going to experiment with other values. Increase the offset amount to at least half... currently it's at -5000 offset. Not sure those particular values are recognized by RSS; I'm using the planet editor to edit them. The valley I'm targeting is one of several that are good landing spots because of their low elevations. This one is near the equator and requires a little care to make sure you don't clip the edge of the cliff coming in. You probably know the one.

http://imgur.com/a/Ht64F

The problem is that your valley is now 60 kilometers deep, which is not very realistic.

[Starwaster]

The problem is that your valley is now 60 kilometers deep, which is not very realistic.

It's not 60km deep. I would put it at maybe 10km deep. If I'm lucky.

And there are canyons on Mars that deep.

[NathanKell]

Dirt_Merchant: use regex's config, but add back in the lines that refer to pngs. Make sure you get all three.

Starwaster: did you really mean 80km, or was that a typo?

[Dirt_Merchant]

Dirt_Merchant: use regex's config, but add back in the lines that refer to pngs. Make sure you get all three.

Starwaster: did you really mean 80km, or was that a typo?

will do, last time around i only added two of the three. oops

[Starwaster]

Starwaster: did you really mean 80km, or was that a typo?

No, I did indeed scale it to 80,000 with an offset of -5000

Perhaps a more realistic target would be 30km, which is the maximum separation of high/low altitudes on Mars. If in fact the height field can be scaled to ensure such a separation.

But yeah, I don't think it's fair to say that the valley itself is 60km deep because not all of the surrounding terrain is that high; it varies. That just happens to be the maximum separation point across the planet.