andqui Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Apologies if this has been discussed before, I tried searching and couldn't find anything. I'm having an issue, which I would guess is related to this mod, of rockets not correctly detecting when they are in the "landed" state. There seems to be some problem with elevations in general. If I build a rocket, and put it on the launchpad without any clamps, it works fine and is sitting on the ground. If I mouse up to the top of the screen, I get the recover vessel option. However, the grill on the bottom of the launch pad is out of alignment with the rest of the 3d launchpad model, above and slightly to the side, and my craft is "stuck" to it when I try to take off. When I add clamps, I avoid this issue and can take off without a problem, but the craft is in the "flying" state when I'm at the launchpad, and I can't go to high time acceleration or use things like MechJeb's targeted ascent, because it thinks I have already taken off. Is there a good way around this?thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaphor Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Apologies if this has been discussed before, I tried searching and couldn't find anything. I'm having an issue, which I would guess is related to this mod, of rockets not correctly detecting when they are in the "landed" state. There seems to be some problem with elevations in general. If I build a rocket, and put it on the launchpad without any clamps, it works fine and is sitting on the ground. If I mouse up to the top of the screen, I get the recover vessel option. However, the grill on the bottom of the launch pad is out of alignment with the rest of the 3d launchpad model, above and slightly to the side, and my craft is "stuck" to it when I try to take off. When I add clamps, I avoid this issue and can take off without a problem, but the craft is in the "flying" state when I'm at the launchpad, and I can't go to high time acceleration or use things like MechJeb's targeted ascent, because it thinks I have already taken off. Is there a good way around this?thanksI've had the same problem. On some rockets (usually larger ones) it's impossible to use non-physics time warp while they're on the launchpad. The game thinks they're already moving so only allows physical time warp up to 4x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 I've had the same problem. On some rockets (usually larger ones) it's impossible to use non-physics time warp while they're on the launchpad. The game thinks they're already moving so only allows physical time warp up to 4x.I don't think the problem is that the game thinks they are moving as such. It knows they are. Physics hasn't settled down after the ship loaded and for some designs may never stop. Either the ship is swaying too much or has overlapping collision bodies constantly acting on each other. When I get such a ship into solar orbit it turns out to be one of those that wants to spin out of control for no visible reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Party Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Who's up for making a kickass banner for the new subreddit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andqui Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 (edited) I don't think the problem is that the game thinks they are moving as such. It knows they are. Physics hasn't settled down after the ship loaded and for some designs may never stop. Either the ship is swaying too much or has overlapping collision bodies constantly acting on each other. When I get such a ship into solar orbit it turns out to be one of those that wants to spin out of control for no visible reason.I don't really seehow the vessel I have could be any simpler- some rocket tanks joined by interstage fairings, and it flies fine and gets into orbit without any stability issues or anything like that. There's no wobbling/swaying/oscillation that I can see. Edited December 8, 2013 by andqui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I don't really seehow the vessel I have could be any simpler- some rocket tanks joined by interstage fairings, and it flies fine and gets into orbit without any stability issues or anything like that. There's no wobbling/swaying/oscillation that I can see.When you use that same design on other launches, multiple times, what is the normal behavior for it? And can you leave it in solar orbit (no SmartA.S.S. commands, no SAS), walk away from the keyboard and come back to to find it doing the same thing as when you left it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andqui Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 (edited) When you use that same design on other launches, multiple times, what is the normal behavior for it? And can you leave it in solar orbit (no SmartA.S.S. commands, no SAS), walk away from the keyboard and come back to to find it doing the same thing as when you left it?Yes, no problem. I have no issues with disintegration, wobbling, structural integrity, anything like that. To reiterate, with the clamps it can take off no problem, and doesn't sway or wobble or anything like that while on the ground, but the while on the pad the game thinks the rocket is "in flight" and I can't speed up time to wait for launch windows and such. When I don't use the clamps, it sits on the ground firmly and stably, and I am detected as on the ground (I can recover and accelerate time), but when I try to take off the engines on the bottom are "stuck" with the misaligned launch pad grill, which hovers barely above and slightly skewed to the side the 3d model of the launchpad. Normal behavior is take off, separate first stage (no problem), separate second stage (no problem), circularize, all without any catastrophes or kraken-esque demolitions. Edited December 8, 2013 by andqui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 Place a (large as possible) decoupler under the bottom engine, and stage it along with ignition. That will fix the "thrust transform under launchpad" issue that clamps were designed to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsoul097 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Anyone got a working Space Shuttle, CSS or Buran that works with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I am, but please be patient. It'll take some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsoul097 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Dragon, I know you do, but I heard someone on this thread had resized the CSS, and I cant find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Party Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Here it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thesonicgalaxy Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Dragon, I know you do, but I heard someone on this thread had resized the CSS, and I cant find it. Unless they also added far support in there too, it's not going anywhere, the SRB's flip upside down around 4 KM or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsoul097 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Damn! I really want to make my station using shuttles as the lifter. Oh well. Now to wait for Dragon01 then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andqui Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 (edited) Place a (large as possible) decoupler under the bottom engine, and stage it along with ignition. That will fix the "thrust transform under launchpad" issue that clamps were designed to solve.Ok, but in the career I'm doing the largest decoupler is 1.25 meters, and placing that under each SRB that touched the ground still resulted in me being stuck. Is there any other workaround, or is this an unavoidable side effect of the rescaled system?EDIT: Interestingly enough, when I use the clamps at the launchpad, I am detected as in flight and can't accelerate past 4x speed. When I do so, however, the mechjeb target selection and recovery options become available again, as if the time acceleration resulted in my status being "on the ground". When I decelerate time back to 1x, the camera shifts a tiny amount and I'm back to the original problem. When I look at the map orbit view, I have a tiny apoapsis at 87 meters and a periapsis way down in the center of the earth, so the launchpads somehow make the rocket in flight/free fall. Edited December 8, 2013 by andqui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFJackBauer Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Damn! I really want to make my station using shuttles as the lifter. Oh well. Now to wait for Dragon01 then.In the meantime if you don't mind flying a closely-looking, instead of an exact replica, I've been working on rescaling some of the B9 parts to match the shuttle dimensions, and I have a procedural wing profile that seems to work with FAR for re-entry and landing. The only outstanding work its on resizing the CSS external tank, reinforcing the strangely weak joints of B9 parts, and work on booster separation rockets angle and power. I predict to be able to post a .craft file in the next few days.@andqui, its a known problem and the only workarounds so far are using a separation stage off the ground as Nathan said. I've been having fun actually building the structure towers for my rockets instead of using the launch clamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathsoul097 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Thanks, I will try it when you can post the file. (Please include all of the parts that are resized as-well, as I don't have B9) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesrate Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Good work! •Better to adjust reentry FX to make it show up only in a higher velocity•Orbital velocities of some planets are too high, such as Minmus•Is Duna's atmosphere OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaphor Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Got a Titan Sample Return mission working:Javascript is disabled. View full album Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeS Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 That is awesome metaphor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesrate Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Oh, and:•Atmosphere height limits are too low. Especially for Jool, when you slightly lower the orbit just above the top of its atmosphere you'll know what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 Cesrate: Thanks! If you have DRE (and you need to, for this mod) you can alter the "start showing FX" and "Full FX" velocity thresholds. During flight, hold ALT+D+R to open debug window and set them as desired. Then hit save, then close by clicking on the X.What planets are off? Since Minmus is Uranus its orbital velocity will be quite high. Is it wrong for Uranus?Duna's atmosphere is now Mars's atmosphere, since Duna is now mars. Metaphor has a fix in the coming-soon RSS v5.3 to tweak its pressure however.Finally, what do you mean by "atmosphere height limits"?andqui: Ah, career mode. Do you have any radial decouplers and girders so you can do like SFJackBauer suggests?metaphor: that is...good gracious, that is _most_ impressive. Kudos! (I notice you opted not to try with ~1hr light lag )BTW, how's the balance on the shields? Did they perform about right, were they too effective or not effective enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesrate Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Cesrate: Thanks! If you have DRE (and you need to, for this mod) you can alter the "start showing FX" and "Full FX" velocity thresholds. During flight, hold ALT+D+R to open debug window and set them as desired. Then hit save, then close by clicking on the X.What planets are off? Since Minmus is Uranus its orbital velocity will be quite high. Is it wrong for Uranus?Duna's atmosphere is now Mars's atmosphere, since Duna is now mars. Metaphor has a fix in the coming-soon RSS v5.3 to tweak its pressure however.Finally, what do you mean by "atmosphere height limits"?Thanks for the explanation. Oops I haven't turned my mind into the real one as it's quiet weird to think Minmus as Uranus...Atmosphere height is... the one shown in KSP wiki, the upper limit of atmosphere, determined by the ratio of pressure... When you getting into Jool's atmosphere, this limit will be pretty obvious... The Q FAR showed just bumped up to 50,000... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 That's because the code for the legacy atmosphere model has an error. Will be avoided when RSS switches to pressureCurves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesrate Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 That's because the code for the legacy atmosphere model has an error. Will be avoided when RSS switches to pressureCurves.So that's avoidable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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