[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[Starwaster]

I usually do quit the game by alt+F4, and I did do it in this instance. I think you're onto something with the camera clipping idea. Sometimes when I hit map mode, the camera is embedded inside the planet (or on the blank surface of where Kerbin's surface would be), looking outwards through the atmosphere into space. I just don't understand why it only happens when I leave the pod and come back. Even if I quit the game while everything is fine and come back in, the issue still rears its head.

Also, it only happens perpendicular to the pod's location at a set radius. The affected areas go back to normal after I get past this radius.

Someone else posted this on r/realsolarsystem, and it looks like it's the same issue, but his screenshots show the circular nature more clearly than mine: http://imgur.com/a/hd7SZ#3

In Flight mode, press alt+G and see what the camera values are at. Do it before and after the problem starts and compare them. It would be the near clip planes, if that's what the problem is.

[Carlo]

It s possible to aerobrake on a Gas-Giant? I'm trying to orbitate Jupiter and I need an aerobrake (12km/s Dv needed to circularize).

The problem is that all my probes just explode as they enter Jupiter's atmosphere (800km circa), because of the extreme high temperatures (those probes segnalate "ambient temperature" over 900 degrees).

Do I have to aerobrake on one of the moons? wich one is the best? Or there is a way to aerobrake on the Giant himself?

Ty!

EDIT: is a bug maybe? or just my install bugged?

Edited March 9, 2015 by Carlo

[celem]

On a related note, the biomes are all still 'Kerbin' biomes, referred to as kerbin in dialogues, there were also a couple of moments where the biome reported by instruments was clearly not the texture i was actually passing over..

Ehh, solved this one. I needed Custom Biomes and the RSS config for it. Dont think it was on the recommended list for this or RO, neither on the threads or through ckan. Might be I missed it, if not then might be an idea to add it.

[SymbolicFrank]

Being a programmer doesn't convey ability to make any of this work. I very much doubt most players of KSP are programmers. I'm one but that I'm not better at playing KSP or using these mods because of it.

If FAR destroys your creations then you need to relearn how to create them. Or relearn how to fly them. (personally I also consider FAR's aerodynamic failures excessively aggressive. But it IS totally possible to fly with it) (I don't use it anymore myself; I have a stock friendlier solution that works better with MJ. It's in my signature)

Thanks. I'll check it out and see if that works better.

The disintegrating is excessive, but I can turn that off. What I cannot handle is that they tend to roll and spin out of control, that the camera loses sight of them and that MechJeb cannot help me get control back.

If Deadly Reentry is disintegrating your ships then you either need to relearn how to build so that parts of your ship aren't exposed or unshielded. Or learn proper reentry angles. Too shallow and you can deplete your shield before you've slowed to subsonic speeds. Too steep and aerodynamic stresses / gforces can kill Kerbals or destroy parts of your ship. For RSS sized Kerbin setting your periapsis to 60 usually gives you a decent angle.

Yes, I know that. Add a heatshield, point the engines retrograde orbit, burn excess speed down to less than ~1000 m/s before entering the atmosphere. Landing on a body without atmosphere is not hard, or can be left to MechJeb. But try a powered landing in an atmosphere and see your ship enter some weird, repeating movement cycle, like PhysX crashing and getting into an endless loop. Sometimes you can force the ship out of it again, but considering that you're at most a few kilometer above ground and closing in fast, it's not going to help.

As for program crashes, it's likely memory, but who can say without logs? (you're a programmer, you know the value of logs in troubleshooting). Still, if it's memory then are you using Advanced Texture Management? It cuts memory usage quite a bit.

Yes, I'm using that. I think it was actually the first thing I googled and installed. I'm pretty sure out-of-memory is what tends to cause it most of the time. If memory usage goes over 3 GB and you load another scene, down it goes. And with Realism Overhaul (just the recommendations from CKAN), it starts out at 3.46 GB after program load...

[Starwaster]

It s possible to aerobrake on a Gas-Giant? I'm trying to orbitate Jupiter and I need an aerobrake (12km/s Dv needed to circularize).

The problem is that all my probes just explode as they enter Jupiter's atmosphere (800km circa), because of the extreme high temperatures (those probes segnalate "ambient temperature" over 900 degrees).

Do I have to aerobrake on one of the moons? wich one is the best? Or there is a way to aerobrake on the Giant himself?

Ty!

EDIT: is a bug maybe? or just my install bugged?

If you're also using Realism Overhaul, I think a lot (most?) parts have had their maxTemp reduced.

At 900 degrees ambient, most of your parts are going to be destroyed in seconds even without Deadly Reentry.

Looking at Jupiter's temperatureCurve though and it doesn't go above 401 degrees so I'm confused as to where 900 is coming from... are you using a different set of configs for RSS?

Not sure about a moon intercept.... you'd have to do a course change as soon as you enter the Jovian system and intercept the target moon from behind. But I'm not sure if any actually have an atmosphere for braking.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Starwaster

[Taki117]

I have a minor annoyance. I am using the 1/10th config and if I'm going faster than about 10m/s in any direction my vessel falls through the terrain and is destroyed. Is there any way to prevent/fix this? I am running Ubuntu 14.04 with 64bit KSP.

[Carlo]

If you're also using Realism Overhaul, I think a lot (most?) parts have had their maxTemp reduced.

At 900 degrees ambient, most of your parts are going to be destroyed in seconds even without Deadly Reentry.

Looking at Jupiter's temperatureCurve though and it doesn't go above 401 degrees so I'm confused as to where 900 is coming from... are you using a different set of configs for RSS?

Not sure about a moon intercept.... you'd have to do a course change as soon as you enter the Jovian system and intercept the target moon from behind. But I'm not sure if any actually have an atmosphere for braking.

I changed a few things in the .cfg file for Jupiter and his moons, I lowered a bit the temperature indicated for the highest part of the atmosphere (ok, could be radio-action, but not to 800-900 degrees) and I changed drastically the datas for the atmospheric pressure (I think they are just wrong, Jupiter low atmosphere can't have a lower pressure than the one of Venus). Now it seems possible to dive into Jupiter's atmosphere for something like 300 km before beeing crushed.

Other than this i noticed that Jupiter is not reconnaised as a Gas Giant in the .cfg files, there is a specific file into the compatibility directory called Real Heat, where it is said: "/This is used to differentiate gas giants from rocky bodies" and Jupiter is not listed, just Saturn and Uranus. And even in the general .cfg is defined as earth mars and venus, not as saturn and uranus (not as a gas giant).

None of the Moons of Jupiter have an atmosphere in game it seems, so I'll try to add one to those ones that have one in RL

[Starwaster]

I changed a few things in the .cfg file for Jupiter and his moons, I lowered a bit the temperature indicated for the highest part of the atmosphere (ok, could be radio-action, but not to 800-900 degrees) and I changed drastically the datas for the atmospheric pressure (I think they are just wrong, Jupiter low atmosphere can't have a lower pressure than the one of Venus). Now it seems possible to dive into Jupiter's atmosphere for something like 300 km before beeing crushed.

Other than this i noticed that Jupiter is not reconnaised as a Gas Giant in the .cfg files, there is a specific file into the compatibility directory called Real Heat, where it is said: "/This is used to differentiate gas giants from rocky bodies" and Jupiter is not listed, just Saturn and Uranus. And even in the general .cfg is defined as earth mars and venus, not as saturn and uranus (not as a gas giant).

None of the Moons of Jupiter have an atmosphere in game it seems, so I'll try to add one to those ones that have one in RL

Real Heat was never completed. Those are probably just there for future use.

Considerable research and attention were given to Jupiter's atmosphere. You're better off going with the values in the pressureCurve instead of making up your own. IRL, Jupiter's atmosphere hits 1 bar 1,000 kilometers deep. (in RSS, the top of the atmosphere cuts off a little early and that's by design)

Your problems that you're experiencing are because you're putting strange data into the files. It's no wonder your probes are exploding.

[Carlo]

I started putting "strage datas" because my probes were exploding, they started exploding before i had ever touched them.

I may be wrong, but the values for Venus's atmosphere are much higher then the jupiter's ones, i think this is not very plausible in RL (but I'm absolutly not a scientist, i could perfectly be wrong)

[Starwaster]

I started putting "strage datas" because my probes were exploding, they started exploding before i had ever touched them.

I may be wrong, but the values for Venus's atmosphere are much higher then the jupiter's ones, i think this is not very plausible in RL (but I'm absolutly not a scientist, i could perfectly be wrong)

You can't compare Venus and Jupiter. 'Jupiter' as represented in the game does not have an atmosphere deep enough to encounter the full pressure that Jupiter in real life possesses. You can't go deep enough in the game because in the game, Jupiter has a solid surface. In real life, it has no surface that has ever been detected. It probably has a solid core down there somewhere, and yes, if you could get that deep then yes, its pressure would be greater than Venus. We can't properly model that in the game because the camera becomes uncontrollable with a properly scaled Jupiter (to represent a 'core') and a properly scaled atmosphere. (I know, because I've tried and things got unplayable). Edit: On the subject of Venus, at its surface it is 90 bars in pressure. That's 140 km deep. With Jupiter's atmosphere the probe we dropped in there went approx 1,146 km deep and the last pressure it measured was 24 bars.

That said, the representation of Jupiter's atmosphere and temperature data is accurate when measured from the top of the atmosphere (taking into account that it was arbitrarily capped when the pressure got too low to matter) to as deep as we can make it before hitting the 'surface' of the planet.

<DELETED SUGGESTION THAT IT MIGHT BE DEADLY REENTRY BECAUSE I AM @#$&%^ stupid and forgot that I submitted a fix for a very similar problem a month ago>

Edit: #2

I got distracted by some elements of the conversation and I forgot the part where you originally said there was 900 ambient and then the second part where you said that was before you edited anythingI got distracted by some elements of the conversation and I forgot the part where you originally said there was 900 ambient and then the second part where you said that was before you edited anything. I'm looking at things closer here but there's nothing in the temperature curve that should cause ambient that high....

Carlo, try this https://www.dropbox.com/s/ydnvp1fz6h9fsf9/RealSolarSystem.dll?dl=1

Download that and replace the existing RealSolarSystem.dll

There's a multiplier in KSP's code that is increases the temperature after it has been retrieved from the temperature curves. (I submitted a fix that was zeroing out temperatures on airless bodies and it seems to fix an opposite but related issue with Jupiter and who knows what other planets...)

Ignore anything I said about Deadly Reentry before editing this, if you saw it.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Starwaster

[Nyia]

In Flight mode, press alt+G and see what the camera values are at. Do it before and after the problem starts and compare them. It would be the near clip planes, if that's what the problem is.

The near clip planes all have the same settings, before and after.

EDIT: After trying altering the numbers, I was able to fix the issue by changing Camera ScaledSpace Depth to -1, but in so doing it makes the planet-side draw distance very short:

When I change Depth back to -3 (default):

it goes back to normal on the ground, but up in space it is still messed up. Can't seem to find the happy medium or figure out why default Depth works up until I 'load' the space scene.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Nyia

[Carlo]

On the subject of Venus, at its surface it is 90 bars in pressure. That's 140 km deep. With Jupiter's atmosphere the probe we dropped in there went approx 1,146 km deep and the last pressure it measured was 24 bars.

That said, the representation of Jupiter's atmosphere and temperature data is accurate when measured from the top of the atmosphere (taking into account that it was arbitrarily capped when the pressure got too low to matter) to as deep as we can make it before hitting the 'surface' of the planet.

Carlo, try this https://www.dropbox.com/s/ydnvp1fz6h9fsf9/RealSolarSystem.dll?dl=1

Download that and replace the existing RealSolarSystem.dll

There's a multiplier in KSP's code that is increases the temperature after it has been retrieved from the temperature curves. (I submitted a fix that was zeroing out temperatures on airless bodies and it seems to fix an opposite but related issue with Jupiter and who knows what other planets...)

Ok, Ty! I'll try that .dll right now with the original Rss.cfg (i have a backup copy since I'm not a programmer and I don't thrust my abilities in modding ^^)

P.S. on the Venus-Jupiter difference, i didn't knew that Jupiter's atmosphere was so light on the upper levels, seen that, your curve make much more sense.

P.S.2 i found somekind of "wall" standing at about 500km from the "surface" of Jupiter (any ship that can get there just explode, even if the temperatures and the pressure are not that high), is this intended to prevent people from diving to deep? it is intended in general?

Edited March 10, 2015 by Carlo

[Starwaster]

Ok, Ty! I'll try that .dll right now with the original Rss.cfg (i have a backup copy since I'm not a programmer and I don't thrust my abilities in modding ^^)

P.S. on the Venus-Jupiter difference, i didn't knew that Jupiter's atmosphere was so light on the upper levels, seen that, your curve make much more sense.

P.S.2 i found somekind of "wall" standing at about 500km from the "surface" of Jupiter (any ship that can get there just explode, even if the temperatures and the pressure are not that high), is this intended to prevent people from diving to deep? it is intended in general?

I don't know? I don't think there's a hard limit at 500km.... (there probably should be one somewhere until we can have realistic gas giants... but I don't think there is one)

Or do you mean an actual physical wall somewhere?

Edited March 10, 2015 by Starwaster

[Carlo]

Sorry for my poor english ^^ I did not explain myself clearly, it is not an actual physical wall, I tried multiple times with different approaches to dive deeper than 500km, and at that altitude "limit" my probes just explode. It can be a bug possibly related with a lot of different things, or it can be somekind of "wall" intended to be there to stop people from diving deeper.

[Starwaster]

Sorry for my poor english ^^ I did not explain myself clearly, it is not an actual physical wall, I tried multiple times with different approaches to dive deeper than 500km, and at that altitude "limit" my probes just explode. It can be a bug possibly related with a lot of different things, or it can be somekind of "wall" intended to be there to stop people from diving deeper.

No, I've been playing around with a probe over Jupiter myself and I've been as far as 450 km. (testing Deadly Reentry and Stock Drag Fix)

Plus I've been involved enough with RSS coding and configs that I know it's not doing anything like that.

(though I have toyed with the idea of introducing pressure extremes to Deadly Reentry.... and may yet do so if it survives KSP 1.0)

[srbgaming]

Already posted this over to the KopernicusTech thread but wanted to show it here. This is an expansion pack for RSS I put together by editing configs. It does require Kopernicus so keep that in mind if you'd like to try it out.

DOWNLOAD LINK: https://www.sendspace.com/file/6oqrkc

Remember to read the readme for instructions.

Requires RSS (duh?) and adds:

New Pluto with red texture for accuracy: Moons Charon, Styx, Kerberos, Nix, Hydra

Orcus: Moon Vanth

Eris: Moon Dysnomia

Haumea: Moons Hi'iaka, Namaka

Ceres

Vesta

Neptune: Moon Triton

Warning, Nix had a Deimos kraken when I tried to land on it. It could just been that one spot, but be warned.

Credits in readme.

Also do note that lighting on the surface will be messed up unless you change the opacity on the normal map to 50% in an editing program. Some of these have already been done by me but I didn't really want to do all of them (sorry).

[regex]

Also do note that lighting on the surface will be messed up unless you change the opacity on the normal map to 50% in an editing program. Some of these have already been done by me but I didn't really want to do all of them (sorry).

Have you converted Ceres, Neptune, and Triton? I would think those three would be the most important, mainly because Neptune is a major body and Ceres is a current hot topic.

[DYo12234]

Will this be compatible with KerbinSide?

[srbgaming]

Have you converted Ceres, Neptune, and Triton? I would think those three would be the most important, mainly because Neptune is a major body and Ceres is a current hot topic.

I do not believe I did Ceres or Triton. I know that Haumea and Orcus should be done. Neptune is unnecessary due to the nature of the issue.

Basically, a 100% opacity Normal map will cause the scaled space to look normal but when you land, the sun's light will opposite. So the dark side of the planet is lit up and vice versa. Because of this Neptune, which you can't land on, is unaffected.

I packaged these files the other day and realized that I forgot to convert all the normals afterward, so that is why this hasn't been done. It certainly isn't game breaking and is unlikely to mess anything up.

[NathanKell]

Starwaster: thanks so much for providing so much support while I was offline--megakudos!

LostOblivion, I think you'd do better to ask that question in the FAR thread; that's full of people who use FAR on stock-size Kerbin. We, kinda by definition, don't. :]

celem: the launch sites are in need of an update, but even so the problem is they can only be optimized for one combination of heightmap and terrain detail setting at a time. However, if you're in a giant hole that just screems "issue with the site!!!" to me. You can actually try to fix it yourself, on the wiki there's an explanation of the parameters used.

On the later points, awesome!

Guamokolatokint: looks like you forgot to install a texture pack.

Nyia: I think there's a weird issue with the scaled space camera. If memory serves pete reported it a while back but I don't think I ever fixed it.

pvnkb1tch: Atmospheres are cut off where a spacecraft returning on an interplanetary trajectory would suffer 1 Pa of dynamic pressure. Below that there isn't much point in realtime modeling of atmospheres. The thing to remember about Venus is that it has a short but thick atmosphere; it's incredibly thick near the surface but thins out quickly. Mars is the reverse; not much pressure anywhere, but it drops off slowly.

Carlo: well, at some point you do hit Jupiter's "surface" which is actually not a surface, but we couldn't model it as a gas giant, we had to model it as a planet with an atmosphere (as KSP does). So at some point you do hit a wall...

Starwaster: I really need to release with your pull. Life's just been super crappy lately, sorry. Suppose you can get the other one you just found in? When I get back (this weekend) I'll try to fix the scaledspace clipping not being loaded, update DDSLoader, and go for launch.

srbgaming: that's super-awesome!

[Starwaster]

Starwaster: I really need to release with your pull. Life's just been super crappy lately, sorry. Suppose you can get the other one you just found in? When I get back (this weekend) I'll try to fix the scaledspace clipping not being loaded, update DDSLoader, and go for launch.

Actually, the last bit of code I submitted fixes the Jupiter temperatureCurve problem too. What I gave Carlo a link to was the compiled code for that

Apparently Squad has altitudeMultiplier or atmoshpereTemperatureMultiplier (typo deliberate) set to varying values for different bodies (0 for Pol and something substantially higher than 1 for Jool)

I don't think it was like that pre-KSP 0.90 or we would have caught it before now. I know I've done Jupiter aerobraking after we first put the temperature curves in.

So, short story is that the fix was to set both those fields to 1 if we have a valid temperatureCurve in.

[braininator]

That looks great! I will check it out, srbgaming! BTW, you might be able to get better textures from SE for those planets of which you used the textures from my pack, which was from metaphor's pack.

Nathen: Do you mind removing my old pack from the original post? I have stopped supporting it, and SRBGaming's is going to be better.

[NathanKell]

Sure.

10char.

Starwaster: awesome.

[srbgaming]

I updated the RSS Expansion Pack and added it to KerbalStuff for permanent download link. Version 1.1 includes Enceladus, Saturn's cryovolcanic moon with a subterranean ocean. I decided to add it in due to all the press it's been getting, and a mission is in the works right now.

I also streamlined the download a bit to make it easier to install.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Snark
Link to defunct website removed by moderator

[Guamokolatokint]

Guamokolatokint: looks like you forgot to install a texture pack.

Red first page again... And... It's magic! I've download it, but not installed.

Thanks a lot! Now it works.