[1.3] Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v3.3.3 7/24/17

[ferram4]

It will, but docking connections will still be a weak point in the design. So to answer the next question, yes you will still have issues if you try to have a Clampotron Jr. handle the thrust of a Mainsail. However you shouldn't if you use a Clampotron Sr.

[9911MU51C]

looks pretty useful, I hate using so many struts

[Galane]

Quantum struts and the strut guns from that mod work just fine in .23 You just have to ensure they don't intersect nor are mounted on certain parts like the cubic octagonal strut (girder piece).

That can be a useful feature. Put a quantum strut on a small hardpoint and aim it at a cubic octagonal strut. Use an action group to toggle the strut and you have a device that will hold the ship in place against rotation. Should make docking easier because the ship can't wobble about.

[dewin]

I admittedly run a plugin-heavy install, but I'm having a problem that I think is this mod.

I recently added RemoteTech 2, KJR and FAR to my list of addons -- all the most recent (and 0.23 compatible) versions. I'm sporadically having two problems when I switch craft (and occasionally when recovering a craft and returning to the space center -- so any scene changes). Neither of these problems occured prior:

The first is: When changing vessels, there's a chance I'll get some interesting camera shaking, paired with random unplanned disassembly. Reloading my last quicksave and switching vessels does NOT trigger this. I suspect the camera shake hints that something is causing the COM to be in the wrong place (since the camera centers on COM normally), but whether that's the cause or a symptom is impossible to guess.

The second is: When changing vessels, I'll occasionally get the "stuck at 0 meters" altitude bug with LOTS of exception spam about being unable to find the active vessel (I don't have it handy at the moment). This leaves the game broken until I full out restart it (I can return to the space center which is also broken; exiting to the main menu and resuming my save won't fix it -- but restarting the game entirely and resuming my save is fine). RemoteTech 2 was having an issue like this prior to its 0.23 update so I'm more inclined to blame it, but I'm mentioning it here in case it's helpful.

Currently running the following (long) list of plugins -- I can try to narrow it down later when I have more time:

The common Toolbar plugin

blizzy's Achievements plugin

ActionGroupManager

EditorExtensions

Engineer

Module Manager 1.5.6

KJR

FAR

KAS

KerbPaint

Kethane

MechJeb2

ProceduralFairings

chatterer

KSP Interstellar

SCANsat

SelectRoot

TacFuelBalancer

TreeLoader

KerbalAlarmClock

various parts modules which do not add plugins and thus aren't likely culprits (KW Rocketry, etc.)

[firstpirlo]

ProceduralFairings seems to have some problems with KJR.Its auto-struts doesn't work.

[ferram4]

@dewin: First I'll need to know the version number for each of those mods. The first issue sounds like a bug caused by something that duplicates the vessel and then the telefrag each other; it has been caused on installs that don't have KJR, so it's likely not the culprit.

I'm not aware of any "stuck at 0 meters altitude" bug at all, but if you're getting exception spam the output_log.txt should tell you exactly what started the issue. In that case, you'll need to go through there, find the first relevant exception, then go make sure that you're using the most up-to-date version of that mod, and if the bug still occurs in the most up-to-date version, post a bug report to that thread with the entire output_log.txt.

Honestly, neither of these sound like KJR bugs.

@firstpirlo: That's news to me. I just launched a 50 tonne space station in real solar system that used a procedural fairing connection between the payload fairing base and a ring halfway up the station to support most of the aerodynamic upper section. The lower section collapsed when I tried detaching the payload fairing while still under 1 g of acceleration; perhaps you're using an out of date version of KJR? Or perhaps you could elaborate more on your problem, since procedural fairings auto-struting does work in the situations that I've tested.

[firstpirlo]

I use procedural fairing as fairings of engines,and the rocket shakes a lot.I ask Honeyfox about it and he said maybe it's KJR.I'll try again.

@dewin: First I'll need to know the version number for each of those mods. The first issue sounds like a bug caused by something that duplicates the vessel and then the telefrag each other; it has been caused on installs that don't have KJR, so it's likely not the culprit.

I'm not aware of any "stuck at 0 meters altitude" bug at all, but if you're getting exception spam the output_log.txt should tell you exactly what started the issue. In that case, you'll need to go through there, find the first relevant exception, then go make sure that you're using the most up-to-date version of that mod, and if the bug still occurs in the most up-to-date version, post a bug report to that thread with the entire output_log.txt.

Honestly, neither of these sound like KJR bugs.

@firstpirlo: That's news to me. I just launched a 50 tonne space station in real solar system that used a procedural fairing connection between the payload fairing base and a ring halfway up the station to support most of the aerodynamic upper section. The lower section collapsed when I tried detaching the payload fairing while still under 1 g of acceleration; perhaps you're using an out of date version of KJR? Or perhaps you could elaborate more on your problem, since procedural fairings auto-struting does work in the situations that I've tested.

[HoneyFox]

@dewin: First I'll need to know the version number for each of those mods. The first issue sounds like a bug caused by something that duplicates the vessel and then the telefrag each other; it has been caused on installs that don't have KJR, so it's likely not the culprit.

I'm not aware of any "stuck at 0 meters altitude" bug at all, but if you're getting exception spam the output_log.txt should tell you exactly what started the issue. In that case, you'll need to go through there, find the first relevant exception, then go make sure that you're using the most up-to-date version of that mod, and if the bug still occurs in the most up-to-date version, post a bug report to that thread with the entire output_log.txt.

Honestly, neither of these sound like KJR bugs.

@firstpirlo: That's news to me. I just launched a 50 tonne space station in real solar system that used a procedural fairing connection between the payload fairing base and a ring halfway up the station to support most of the aerodynamic upper section. The lower section collapsed when I tried detaching the payload fairing while still under 1 g of acceleration; perhaps you're using an out of date version of KJR? Or perhaps you could elaborate more on your problem, since procedural fairings auto-struting does work in the situations that I've tested.

He's using the interstage adapter with fairings. AFAIK the PF plugin will create 8 joints among the 4 fairings and to the top part. According to his statement, i wonder if KJR destroyed these joints by mistake. But I've read your code also, and it seems like KJR will only destroy joints made by itself or connected to a part on a different vessel... so...

[Shogun Gunshow]

When using this mod, when I try and use decouplers, instead of a normal decouple, things ...... explode off, rocketing away with incredible speed and force. Sometimes I get lucky and the separated parts do not destroy my ship. More often, though, it results in unplanned disassembly.

[Dingbat1967]

Hello,

Just want to thank you for this amazing plugin. I can finally build more realistic rockets instead of these assemblies of struts to launch large payloads in orbit. I don't understand why Squad did not focus on fixing this wobbly problem but thanks for fixing it.

[ferram4]

@firstpirlo: So basically you're having the rocket change from a large-diameter tank / interstage fairing to a small-diameter engine to another large-diameter tank? It sounds like you'll need to attach struts between the tanks manually, although that shouldn't be necessary since KJR should already do that. You'll need to produce a picture of what you're doing for me to figure out what's going on, if it's actually a bug.

@Shogun Gunshow: Using FAR v0.12? If so, upgrade it; the bug is there, not in KJR. Otherwise, you'll need to post a list of all the mods you're using and their version numbers so I can figure out what's wrong.

[Galane]

It will, but docking connections will still be a weak point in the design. So to answer the next question, yes you will still have issues if you try to have a Clampotron Jr. handle the thrust of a Mainsail. However you shouldn't if you use a Clampotron Sr.

Clampotron Jr's worked fine on my Duna ship, with four quantum struts, holding orange tanks side by side, with mainsails. At some points of the trip there was only thrust on one side of that connection. Probably wouldn't have worked without KJR, which was the answer to making the ship usable on my computer.

It has a dual core (would unlock to quad if the chipset was one little revision newer) Phenom II X2 555 AM3 CPU (in an AM2+ socket) with 2 gigs of PC2-6400, running XP 32bit. Will soon be upgraded to 6 gigs RAM and Windows 7 64bit. I'm thinking the PCIe x16 Radeon HD2600 Pro with only 512meg is holding it back.

[Schilcote]

I've noticed that having this mod made the connections a whole heck of a lot more brittle as well; is that normal behavior? I've been unable to get anything bigger than the stock Z-MAP kit into LKO with KJR installed; even with no payload, my launchers always snapped as soon as the gravity turn began. I also had some problems getting rockets to fly straight that seemed to dissipate after I uninstalled the mod, though I might put that down to being a little bit out of practice.

[ferram4]

That shouldn't happen in the most recent version of the mod, since it overrides a lot of the part's breakForces now. You're using v1.6, right?

[Surefoot]

@Ferram: got that issue with recent patches (0.23 and so on):

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64117-0-23-Modular-Fuel-Tanks-v4-1?p=888145&viewfull=1#post888145

and

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64117-0-23-Modular-Fuel-Tanks-v4-1?p=889021&viewfull=1#post889021

Maybe it's MFT, maybe it's KJR, it's not clear to me. Seemed from reading the stretchytanks threads there was an issue with MFT there, but now i'm less sure. All my symmetric engine configurations have off-balance thrust, with random variations upon game reload / ship change. I am using the latest version of everything.

[Hyomoto]

I've been using this for a while so its about time I drop a comment saying how great it is. Why now? I did a stock challenge, which of course required I remove this mod, and I was instantly reminded of how insanely spaghetti rockets are without this. So thank you, this is a really great project. As 'amusing' as watching parts slide all over is, its nice to have rockets act like rockets.

[Castun]

I agree, it's great having rockets that act like rockets. I've built some incredibly large ships in orbit, and this along with Strut Guns from the Quantum Strut pack to secure docked parts, it's amazing. Maybe someday both parts and docking ports will behave properly without needing mods.

[Galane]

@Ferram: got that issue with recent patches (0.23 and so on):

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64117-0-23-Modular-Fuel-Tanks-v4-1?p=888145&viewfull=1#post888145

and

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64117-0-23-Modular-Fuel-Tanks-v4-1?p=889021&viewfull=1#post889021

Maybe it's MFT, maybe it's KJR, it's not clear to me. Seemed from reading the stretchytanks threads there was an issue with MFT there, but now i'm less sure. All my symmetric engine configurations have off-balance thrust, with random variations upon game reload / ship change. I am using the latest version of everything.

Randomly breaking fuel pipes? I always do a 'fly around' on rockets with fuel pipes to make sure some haven't vanished on the pad.

[ferram4]

@Ferram: got that issue with recent patches (0.23 and so on):

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64117-0-23-Modular-Fuel-Tanks-v4-1?p=888145&viewfull=1#post888145

and

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64117-0-23-Modular-Fuel-Tanks-v4-1?p=889021&viewfull=1#post889021

Maybe it's MFT, maybe it's KJR, it's not clear to me. Seemed from reading the stretchytanks threads there was an issue with MFT there, but now i'm less sure. All my symmetric engine configurations have off-balance thrust, with random variations upon game reload / ship change. I am using the latest version of everything.

I'm gonna guess that's not KJR, since it sounds like a center of mass issue, and KJR doesn't mess with that...

What do all of these vehicles have in common? Do all these vehicles use fuel lines? Does the issue continue if you remove the fuel lines and manually pump fuel (if necessary)? Does removing MFT fix the issue?

I know that I had some weird MFT-caused CoM changing with v4, but v4.1 fixed that for me.

[1096bimu]

If you build a craft such that it has lower drag at a specific orientation in FAR, and then attach parachute to it with the Real Chute plugin. Then it doesn't matter where you place the chutes the craft will always tend to fly at the orientation of the lowest drag without parachutes. If you try too hard to break it out of that orientation it will simply start to swing, spin and explode upon chute deployment. And ideas?

[ferram4]

I think you intended to post in the FAR thread...

First, vehicles don't always seek the minimum drag orientation; a standard pod is stable with the blunt end facing directly into the flow, which also happens to be its highest drag configuration. Vehicles tend to find the most stable attitude, which is not necessarily the highest or lowest drag orientation.

As for your particular problem, it sounds like your vehicle isn't stable in the orientation that you're trying to reenter it in; your solution is to try and modify the vehicle so that it does happen to be stable during reentry; without pictures of the craft and a decent description of what you're trying to do, I can't give you anything more specific than that.

[foamyesque]

ferram: I've encounted a really weird glitch that I strongly suspect is the result of KJR:

I have teleporting fuel tanks.

On scene load, or dropping out of rails warp-- in other words, every time physics starts-- a number of bits and pieces of my rocket teleport to positions well away from the rocket (1km+; they're invisible from the origin). The camera shifts to accomodate the change in CoM, so the game thinks the pieces are still physically attached to the rocket (and in fact they will still function, fuel lines and struts still link them, and no damage shows in the log). Moreover, on entering a rails warp, the moving pieces then teleport themselves back into the correct positions.

Pieces connected to the teleporting parts do not necessarily move with them.

Testing via HyperEdit shows that this occurs only on scene loads above a certain orbital velocity... Somewhere above 3500m/s but less than 7000m/s.

Repeated testing shows that initially on scene load the pieces are in the correct spot but that the teleportation behaviour occurs precisely, as far as I can tell, when the message "KJR stabilizing physics load" appears in the top right.

EDIT:

Screenshot:

Obviously I'm running a bunch of mods. I imagine the relevant ones are KJR, RealFuels, and possibly RSS or some interaction between the three.

Edited January 6, 2014 by foamyesque

[Zander]

This mod is great but it still is having problems with large rockets. I have a 100 meter tall 10 meter wide rocket and as soon as it appears on the pad it starts swaying and bending.

[ModZero]

I have teleporting fuel tanks.

There was a bug like that in MFT, and I’d imagine the codebase of RF is still very similar.

[foamyesque]

There was a bug like that in MFT, and I’d imagine the codebase of RF is still very similar.

Hrm. Okay, I'll check there. Thanks.