What's the most complex game you know?

[Razor235]

Which games (for you) are really complicated, but fun? By this I mean a combination of features, difficulty, etc. that make a game with a steep learning curve, but with a level of immersion/over-the-topness that really makes it worth it.

For me, (as some of you may already have guessed from my sig) that game is Dwarf Fortress. This game makes most simulation games look like a toddler's set of blocks. In fact, it can be called more of a universe simulator than a game. It takes the learning curve and makes it a cliff several hundred feet high. But, it is well worth it. The destruction of a fort can be somewhat saddening, but you can't help but laugh as the dwarves try to escape the fire-breathing titan on their doorstep.

It simulates, including but not limited to:

• Weather systems
  
• Geology (to the point where a geology textbook is worth more than a strategy guide)
  
• Genetics
  
• Political influences
  
• Physics
  
• Injuries down to the eyelashes
  

A full list of features

All while masquerading as a game where you control a bunch of depressed, alcoholic midgets.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Razor235
De-FUBARed list

[Flymetothemun]

It might not be the most complex, but the most confusing and screw-around-with-your-mind-iest game I've ever played is Zork. As far as most complex, it'd have to be RCT2, all with it's different datas that you have to manage and control and with the individual prices and customization options.

[Galacticruler]

I-L2 Sturmovik games, everything on the keyboard does something, and then more things with the application of ALT, CTRL and/or SHIFT.

[shoveycat]

I know its definitely the most complex, but OpenTTD sure ain't Tetris.

[The Destroyer]

I know its definitely the most complex, but OpenTTD sure ain't Tetris.

It's quite a nice game.

But for me, it's KSP. It's rocket sceince!

But DF, from the backround it looks like confusing. Now, if we combined Civ with it, then there we go!

[fatfluffycat]

I tried OpenTTD a while back, I didn't know how to give the trains commands/set up routes

I would say OpenTTD....don't remember anything else.

[The Destroyer]

I tried OpenTTD a while back, I didn't know how to give the trains commands/set up routes

I would say OpenTTD....don't remember anything else.

It's actually quite easy once you know how to do it- eventually it basically becomes a sandbox.

[Nuke]

pretty much any combat air sim will be complex and very hard. i own a bunch and i dont think ive ever beaten one of them.

frontier: elite 2. ive never been able to get anywhere in that game. controls are pretty basic, but combat with newtonian physics is really hard, and you are always getting killed by a fast little dot. doesnt help much with the low resolution pre acceleration era 3d graphics.

mwll - king of all battletech games (including mwo), even though its just a crysis wars mod. electronic warfare is awesome in this game. you can set up all kinds of traps and ambush people and rip their mechs up into scrap. add that to the already complex combat mechanics of battletech, and you got some awesome. you dont have to play that sneaky, you can just brawl or lob missiles if you want, but those kind of players frequently get pewned. all the battletech geeks play mwll, so competition is fierce, that is when you can find enough competent players. also its not just mechs, theres tanks, hovers, vtols, aerotech fighters, even infantry. so you never get bored.

starcraft, any of them - looks approachable and very easy to play. now go online and fight some koreans. you soon realize that the game is really complex. you have to be fast in the head as well as with the mouse.

kingdom of loathing. you like puzzles (especially ones involving booze and horking peoples stuff), this is just the awesome. hard if you dont cheat.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Nuke

[sjwt]

I call 1000 blank cards!

[rewdew2]

One of the most complicated?

Um....

Probably archery is kind of complicated... (it's like if surgeon sim and QWOP had a kid with arrows)

Other than that, OpenTTD is kind of complicated in the fact that there are no in-game tutorials, or controls listed.

But i found it's kind of hard to go bankrupt if you primarily use road vehicles.

[pxi]

Yeah I'd have to agree with Dwarf Fortress. Once you give it a while, the text-graphics become suprisingly easy to navigate.

It's the only game that I've ever heard of that has an O'Reilly book.

[Seret]

Dwarf Fortress.

Ug. Complexity yes, fun I'm not so sure. Definitely one for people with untold amounts of free time.

[Godot]

I agree with Dwarf Fortress. There is a reason why even game designers love it

Aside from this I might mention DCS: A10 , which simulates the A-10 Warthog, with detail given to each system (meaning that you take 10+ minutes just to startup the plane, if you do all steps necessary to start up the plane in a cold and dark cockpit, and that you have to have some skill/experience to program a Maverick with a HOTAS in order to attack a a target only visible in one of your 2 MFCDs but then be rewarded to see it fly to the target while you ae already headed elsewhere)

Also honorable mention to Aurora 4X

Which is an Indie-Access-VB Space strategy game that is aimed a little bit more at realism than you find elsewhere (although, for the future spaceships, with Non Newtonian physics due to new elements being discovered with these capbilities) ... with especial love given the design of spaceships and missiles

Edited November 2, 2013 by Godot

[Seret]

you have to have some skill/experience to program a Maverick with a HOTAS in order to attack a a target

From my time in the airforce as an armourer I remember real Mavericks being pretty easy to use. Select store > uncage > slew onto target > fire. Probably depends a lot on how user friendly the avionics in your particular aircraft are though.

[Godot]

From my time in the airforce as an armourer I remember real Mavericks being pretty easy to use. Select store > uncage > slew onto target > fire. Probably depends a lot on how user friendly the avionics in your particular aircraft are though.

Yep ... I assume the fact that I don´t have the original warthog HOTAS might make things a little bit more difficult (X52 HOTAS ... a large number of buttons and hats ... but still I have to spread the original Warthog-HOTAS-Buttons/Switches over 2 modes of my own HOTAS) ... but also the fact that there is a really huge number of buttons you have to keep in memory ... something that surely is easier when you are constantly drilled for their use

Edited November 2, 2013 by Godot

[mux]

Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders (tried over 20 years ago, completed lately with small help from Internetz)

[Reccy]

I tried Dwarf Fortress numerous times and I can never manage to set up a decent fortress. I tried adventure mode later and that was much easier than fortress mode.

Such a complex game, to be honest I find the graphics to be the main culprit, and the interface. Not used to ASCII games

[Seret]

Such a complex game, to be honest I find the graphics to be the main culprit, and the interface. Not used to ASCII games

There are loads of graphical tilesets that make it look a little less like someone has regurgitated ascii onto the screen.

[Reccy]

There are loads of graphical tilesets that make it look a little less like someone has regurgitated ascii onto the screen.

I use the Lazy Newb Pack for DF, and I still find it very difficult to play. Dat learning curve. I guess I'm just too used to the fancy GUIs most games have nowadays.

[pxi]

Dat learning curve.

It's not so much a curve as a cliff to be honest. For a good while I was happy just surviving the first winter.

[Libra00]

All this talk of learning curves and no one has yet posted this?

Seriously though, I don't find Dwarf Fortress to be that complicated. It's all menus, the only difficulty is finding things. And as someone who used to use Lotus 1-2-3 remembering menu hotkey strings is cake, and they're not nearly as long in DF as they were in Lotus. The only part of DF that I would consider truly complicated is the military orders/scheduling thing, I have yet to sit down and figure it out.

[LtHeckard]

Complex.... Hmm..... Probably Kerbal Space Program lol. Orbital mechanics, rendezvousing, etc.

[Krevsin]

Dwarf Fortress. That is all I have to say.

[Randox]

I think I would have to say Arma 2. It's a very detailed combat sim, and I'm sure both its predecessor and successor are just as thorough. I still don't know how to work the entire squad command system (sort of like air traffic control in flight sims). Also, cheers to the combat game with bullet drop (mercifully, no wind).

Not as technically complex or anything, but Mount & Blade: Warbands comes to mind, and I'm not sure why. I think that one stands out to me as a game where you really suffer if you aren't always thinking about the big picture, because it's paired to a (simplified) economic simulator and your army needs to be paid. You can never go off and just focus on an objective. For much of the game, you need to always be thinking about making sure you have enough cash flow to keep the troops happy, which battles are going to make enemies that will make your life difficult down the line, or if you go over here, is someone going to pillage your lands and kill your subjects. Your also managing all the stats for your heroes, and there are a LOT of stats and not a lot of skill points going around, and I always found it tricky to keep track of who was supposed to be what, and what levels they need, meaning I usually have to write out a few notes. I also keep some trade tables on hand so that I can remember what prices I am getting a good deal at and so on.

[Xeldrak]

HAd quite some fun with Silent Hunter 4. Turns out it's not easy AT ALL to hit a moving target with a rather slow moving Torpedo.....