Razor235

Sooo.... what exactly does "improved" mean in this context? Is it actually fixed? Is it just slower or only when not warping? Or is there just one less step in the goat-sacrifice-saltcircle-seance-chanting procedure to ensure that it only happens some of the time maybe?

Oh I disagree completely. I don't think communication has degraded at all since that little improvement. I think that it's been incredibly illuminating in regards to the state of the game and its development. Which is probably why it wasn't happening to begin with.

Oh boy I may regret saying this, and I apologize in advance to the moderators. But I need to get this off my chest. The sheer irony of this statement is palpable. For a while I'd been avoiding interacting here since the first patches because I had already said my piece after launch, but I stuck around lurking in announcement threads and the infamous playercount discussion threads to keep a pulse on the community and the game. And in every single one, the pro-KSP2 (for lack of a better more concise term) posters were easily just as condescending, if not more so, than the anti-KSP2 posters. Time and time again there would be people venting, constructively or not, and they would be shot down with the usual "it's early access why are you complaining," "you should have known what you were getting into," "you know nothing about programming," etc. type stuff. Now, surprise surprise, biting sarcasm and sardonic quips tend not to go over well with annoyed people, so they'd retaliate in kind and start a massive firefight that inevitably spirals out of control into endlessly looping arguments until the thread got locked. And in other threads, someone would call out the other side in a way like you just did, and start the fecal storm anew. I admit I am biased and consider myself on the anti- side of this argument, but that was the pattern I'd see time and time again. No personal attacks goes both ways. Respecting opinions goes both ways. And do not pretend that there was not absurd mudslinging on both sides of these posts. And yes, the people who say things like that without evidence are absolute trash fires (descriptive phrases I feel fit better would probably break forum rules) and they should be called out for it - but in their eyes, so should someone who actually is one of those things and that they feel they have actual evidence of it. ^^^(I REALLY want to emphasize that I'm not intending to refer to anyone here in this sentence and I don't think that Nate or anyone else as that, but there may be others that truly do and they are allowed to voice that)^^^ Mindless echo chambers do nothing to improve any situation , whether it's the game itself, the community around that game, or anything related to it. And now here we are in the first announcement thread I've seen where there has been hardly any vitriol for once. And I strongly doubt that it was your intention to incite more. But please, please, please understand how callouts like this really invite more flamewar discussions, and please, please, please just let it rest for a while. And yeah, I would say it was worth it if it got this more effective communication style. Probably got a bit excessive at times, but I doubt it would have changed this soon without a strong negative presence, and would not have changed at all without anyone voicing their dislike of the other methods. Yes, there wasn't a whole lot of new information, and it really just confirmed things we suspected were happening, but before this all we had were suspicions wrapped up in a spinny sunshine and rainbows language that just didn't sit right with the current state of the game. Tone of communication matters just as much as its actual content, and seeing the tone of this post and confirmation that they are actually seeing things that we see (i.e. bugs) instead of us feeling like we're just shouting into the void did wonders to alleviate some of the unease that I was feeling. There is once again a tiny (ok VERY tiny) drop of optimism that something good might come out of this, but there was none before. Boy this post got out of hand. Oh well. Let it fall where it may.

This is exactly the sort of breakdown I was trying to convey would be helpful. While my overall opinion of the game's state hasn't changed, having the additional context here really does wonders to address at least some of my concerns. Thank you, and keep it up! ETA: I still think a public bug tracker tool would be much appreciated, especially if it makes updates like these less cumbersome to track and put out for you guys.

What do you know of beauty? Picture it, Mission Control! One million parts GONE, to save TEN Million! Flood the aft booster tanks! But sir, the weight will destroy the launch pad! And that will give the rocket the elevation it needs! SALVATION! -Last words of Cpt. Mathias Kerman, before spending 698 days trapped in solar orbit with nothing but rocket-vtuber content.

See also Factorio, Satisfactory, Terra Invicta, Dwarf Fortress... Even Halo Infinite devs at least talked about desync, and they suck at communcation.

This this this so much this. This is why I just flat out stopped interacting here for the most part after the rather lackluster round of patch fixes, I got so tired of every thread having at least one person going "unless you're a truly enlightened game developer programmer you have no idea what it's like to make something as intricate as a holy video game". I don't know how to fly a helicopter either, but I think I can call out something being wrong when I see one upside down in a tree on fire. And then I think I can call the fire chief's priorities a bit skewed when all he's done is show me pictures of some replacement windshield glass that will be arriving at some indeterminate time to fix the helicopter when I can still see smoke billowing from the engine compartment. Man did I have an internal debate about posting this tortured metaphor. But screw it, here goes.

This is my big thing with the new terrain. I first noticed it with Minmus. The textures admittedly do look good, especially from space, but Minmus without cliffs is just a tiny blue Mun with an ice skating rink. I miss seeing the huge plateaus on the horizon and the little slot canyons on the edge of the flats. I miss the huge mountains on Kerbin that go into the stratosphere, realism be damned.

I'm glad that that's apparently sufficient communication for you. But for me (and apparently others) it just isn't. Yeah knowing what was fixed is really good, but I would at least like to know what things are prioritized for the next patch, and more comprehensive known-issues. Look at how long it took to even publicly acknowledge the existence of the orbit decay bug, a game-breaking core-system bug that's been in since launch at the very least. Things like that do not inspire confidence in me, personally. And know, I don't know what kind of things they can add to alleviate this, because I'm not a public communications expert. But, like some comedian once said about a helicopter upside down in a tree, you don't have to be an expert to point out maybe things could be a bit better. And frankly I don't know what they could say at this point to give me more confidence in this game to begin with. I know for myself at least them saying "hey these specific things are broken, we're working on it but it might take a while to fix" or "hey this patch messed with something with joints and wing connections are weaker now, be careful" I'd be a lot more forgiving. But when I see my vessels falling out of orbit within minutes, when I see pre-patch 1 planes that were flying great suddenly just explode, and I see no acknowledgement that things were changed or that they're working on it, that really doesn't inspire confidence in me that they're actually working to fix these issues.

It's between this and game-breaking core system bugs still surviving multiple patches, like orbit decay and planes disintegrating on launch (at least orbit decay has finally been acknowledged) that give me the biggest worries and complaints. I've been loath to mention it for fear of the "unless you personally coded an entire OS from scratch you have no right to comment on game development" crowd. Like, I get it. Coding is hard. Games are complex systems with lots of moving parts, lots of different coders, and things always break somewhere. But it's not like programming is some special forbidden art that only trueborn mages may practice or critique. In every project I've worked on, having such fundamental issues with the entire core function and reason for existence of your system, regardless of whether it's programming or hardware, is grounds to drop *everything* until that problem doesn't exist anymore. Maybe game development is a special. Maybe my coworkers and employer are. At the very least, don't go radio silence on the issue until after your second patch when it's existed at launch.

So it seems to consistently affect the bodies further out from their respective systems: Minmus, Duna, and Jool for sure. Has anyone encountered it on Eeloo, Dres, or Jool's outer moons? What about Eve and Moho? Can't say I've bothered trying to go interplanetary while this bug is still around.

Something not functioning cannot a bug if it's intentionally kept from being functional.

This isn't just happening with save/loads - the Wheesley engine on this plane keeps migrating upwards on a long endurance flight - no saveloading or warps involved.

Oh god I didn't mean to call you out or anything, in fact I think it's better to have multiple reports about this. There's been shockingly little discussion over what seems like a significant issue in my eyes, so I wanted to know if it was just me going crazy or something.

Hmmm, there's still noticeable decay at low munar orbits at 1x warp, but goes away at 2x and greater with no ports.

I wonder if this has to do with docking ports then. I haven't had orbit decay since the patch with my ships, but I haven't used docking ports because they're still broken as hell.

Seems related to some other reports submitted. Out of curiosity, are your wings mounted to the engine nacelles or directly to the main fuselage? From the pictures it looks like the former, but I'd like to know.

Is that a docking port on the bottom or just the base of the probe core?

Interesting. I didn't have this problem this time around, despite having it pre-patch. Did you load any saves during the flight before the decay started?

Are there any cubic struts or other physicsless parts present? I've been having lots of wing problems myself.

This is kind of a 2 parter, but anyway... Having a wing ripped off in aerodynamic flight causes the "vessel destroyed" box to appear, even with the root part and most of the vessel still intact and spiraling away into oblivion. https://i.imgur.com/ZDRrTeM.mp4 The second part of this is that wing connections seem extremely weak now. This is the same craft doing the same maneuver pre-patch and staying perfectly intact. Now it disintegrates at 7 Gs, even with strutting the bejeezus out of the offending parts. https://i.imgur.com/iiYpUag.mp4 Having control just ripped away like that with controllable parts remaining is bad enough, but there seems to be no way to prevent the wing breaking off in the first place from maneuvers that really shouldn't break it off.

So it seems this is true even of regular buildable struts. I put a couple struts on a supermaneuverable neutrally-stable plane that could turn on a dime and now the thing handles like a schoolbus.

I've had wings just fly off my high-performance jets on mid-G (7-8) maneuvers they were able to do just fine pre-patch. This also instantly removes control and does the "mission destroyed" dialogue box as I helplessly watch my mostly-still-intact plane fly off into the ground in the distance.

Yes this happens for Minmus, Duna, and apparently Jool. You can eyeball just putting your trajectory on a retrograde heading to get around it, but it really sucks interplanetary.

Confirming this is still happening post-patch.