[1.1.3] AntennaRange 1.11.4 - Enforce and Encourage Antenna Diversity

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

Gkirmathal, the range varies with the square-root of maxPowerFactor. So, if maxPowerFactor is 16, then the spacecraft's maximum communication range is 4 times its nominal range. (However, it will require 16 times as much power to transmit science across that distance.) Does that answer your question?

[toadicus]

Thanks for fielding that one, Kerbas_ad_astra. Not sure how I missed it! Gkirmathal, I've tried to consolidate all of the answers to questions like that into the README file, most easily read on github where the markdown gets interpreted: https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/blob/master/README.md

[toadicus]

AntennaRange has been updated to version 1.10.2! This version finally, formally fixes some old bugs and exploits and adds support for the High Gain Antenna from the AsteroidDay mod.

CHANGELOG:

v.1.10.2 [2015-10-02]
* Fixed an issue that could cause Exceptional behavior when the active vessel had no transmitters.
* Fixed an issue that could result in Exceptional behavior when a target relay unexpectedly disappears.
* Fixed an issue that would result in Exceptional behavior when viewing antenna part tooltips in the R&D scene before opening the Editor scene.
* Corrected EVA Kerbals to start with 0 ElectricCharge.  They will automatically fill to maximum when leaving the vessel, if the vessel has sufficient ElectricCharge.
* Added patch support for the HighGainAntenna from the AsteroidDay mod.
* Updated for the ToadicusTools refactor.

[linuxgurugamer]

@Toadicus,

Thanks for the update. I'm about to switch from RemoteTech to Antennarange, nice to see it's up-to-date.

I'm sure you are aware of a mod which adds additional antennas: Antennas

Someone posted a patch to make it work with AntennaRange, i've packaged it up into a mod for ease of use.

It's available here: https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/1191/AntennaRangePatch4Antennas

Let me know if you incorporate the patch into your mod, if you do, I'll depreciate my patch mod.

LGG

[linuxgurugamer]

Could you add an option to make the Blizzy toolbar optional? I have Blizzy installed, but would prefer to have this mod always on the main toolbar.

Thanks

[Gkirmathal]

Gkirmathal, the range varies with the square-root of maxPowerFactor. So, if maxPowerFactor is 16, then the spacecraft's maximum communication range is 4 times its nominal range. (However, it will require 16 times as much power to transmit science across that distance.) Does that answer your question?

Well yes and no I got the bit of the max-powerfactor from the start. The bit unclear still is how the 'nominalRange' works. If one adds 40.000.000.000 as nominarange in the cfg, it does not corresponds to 40M km range in game.

So to what does the nominal range correspond or how is it devised?

I might be overlooking something very simple I recon. Though currently I got the values I wanted by trail and error which works. But still I would like to know the above.

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

Well yes and no I got the bit of the max-powerfactor from the start. The bit unclear still is how the 'nominalRange' works. If one adds 40.000.000.000 as nominarange in the cfg, it does not corresponds to 40M km range in game.

So to what does the nominal range correspond or how is it devised?

I might be overlooking something very simple I recon. Though currently I got the values I wanted by trail and error which works. But still I would like to know the above.

The nominalRange of an antenna is the nominal range when it's talking to another antenna of the same type. Because KSP's ground station has a much longer range than any antenna part, that causes the ranges shown in the VAB to be different. The nominal range between two different antennas, one with nominalRange1 and the other with nominalRange2, is sqrt(nominalRange1 * nominalRange2). For the range shown in the VAB, the "other end" is Kerbin, which has a range set in AntennaRange.cfg (probably 2000000000000 -- that's 2000 Gm-- if you're testing in sandbox mode).

So, if you want a spacecraft to have a nominal range of 40 Gm from Kerbin, you would take that distance, square it, and divide by Kerbin's range to get 800 Mm.

The reason we go to all this trouble is that communication "link budgets" actually depend on both ends -- I could talk from the Moon to Earth by a walkie-talkie if I were talking to one of NASA's giant 70-meter radio dishes, but not if I were trying to call another walkie-talkie directly.

[toadicus]

linuxgurugamer, the "official" way to distribute user-contributed patches for AntennaRange is via the Compatibility Patches page on the github wiki. BigFatStupidHead's already got a patch up there that looks like it may be the one you're distributing; I dunno how they compare. At this point I'm keeping the base mod "stock only"; everything's subject to change once Stock gets AntennaRange-ified in 1.1 (or whenever that happens).

I could add such a toggle. I've added an issue to help me remember.

Gkirmathal, have a look over the README; it should help.

[Z-Key Aerospace]

Since upgrading to v.1.10.2 [2015-10-02] with "Require Connection for probe control" ticked - I can't control probes.

I have had to untick that option.

With a Stayputnik, a battery a thermometer and a red-and-white antenna, on the launch pad I get a red icon and cant click the thermometer.

Can you reproduce or is it just me? Happy to rummage through my log file if you tell me what to look for.

(Tracking station is second level if that makes a difference)

------

OK - it is something to do with DTPhantom's Antennas being installed. But there isnt one on the craft and I only ever use them as props. If I remove that mod everything works.

------

I managed to get DTPhantom's Antennas working by editing the .cfg files. All good now.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Z-Key Aerospace

[xebx]

I have a few questions, not a big problem just strange :

I've sent Relay (communotron 88-88) Probes in orbit of each planet/moon.(stock game, tracking station lvl3, fixed power cost, draw pretty lines and 20ms refresh)

When Additives Range is selected, Relay Probe of Dres, Jool and Eeloo have yellow (suboptimal) datalink.

When Additives Range is unselected, only Relay Probe of Jool have yellow (suboptimal) datalink. (but Eeloo is connected to Jool)

Is it normal ?

(edits)

When i look at network links more precisely, i see a lot of my outofkerbinSOI Relay Probes are connected to Kerbin through Mun Relay (communotron 88-88) or through Mun base (communotron 16), is it possible to have them directly connected to KSC Tracking Station lvl3 ? It seems they are loosing range efficiency by going through smaller antennas inside kerbin SOI.

Same with my Moho Relay probe (communotron 88-88) it says it's connected through Gilly Driller (communotron16), but there is a Gilly Relay (communotron 88-88)

Another strange behaviour : my Minmus Tanker says it's suboptimal (its communotron16 is connected to Mun communotron 88-88) but there is a Minmus Relay (communotron 88-88) just near it !

I've deselected 'draw pretty lines' it seems inaccurate and confusing lol.

Same after remove/reintall AR

Note : i'm using stockbugfixmodule antenna bandwidthfix, no known strange interaction here ?

Edited October 5, 2015 by xebx

[linuxgurugamer]

linuxgurugamer, the "official" way to distribute user-contributed patches for AntennaRange is via the Compatibility Patches page on the github wiki. BigFatStupidHead's already got a patch up there that looks like it may be the one you're distributing; I dunno how they compare. At this point I'm keeping the base mod "stock only"; everything's subject to change once Stock gets AntennaRange-ified in 1.1 (or whenever that happens).

I could add such a toggle. I've added an issue to help me remember.

First, thanks for thinking of the toggle. I've done this for several of my mods, I prefer the flexibility of choosing which one to use.

Second, while I wasn't aware of the patches page, I do have a problem with it. Specifically, installation via CKAN.

Another user made a whole series of patches which cover the following mods:

// RemoteTech2

// Squad

// Hyomoto Aerospace

// Dmagic

// DongFangHong

// FASA By Frizzank & APOLLO By DennyTX

// NovaPunch

// Telemachus

// Lionhead

// AIES

// LLL-Lite

// Tantares

// HGR

// RemoteTech2 To AntennaRange

// MWIndustries

//UmbraSpaceIndustries

They are available on GitHub at https://github.com/Mecripp

Except for the RemoteTech one, they are all pretty simple. RemoteTech is special in that it needs some additional stuff removed.

I've written a file for AutoPruner which will take care of that.

I was working on a mod today which would package all these up in a single mod file, installable via CKAN. I'd be happy to work with you, both to put all of these on your page as well as making an installable mod to make it easier for people to install.

FYI, I've been using RT until now, but am very frustrated with the complexity and level of micromanaging that it requires. I found that AntennaRange does a really nice job of adding the necessity for different antennas without making it complicated to use.

Another suggestion you might want to consider is this:

In a dialog, allow the user to select two locations (ie: Kerbin, Duna), and to specify an antenna for each location, and show how well the combination will work between the two locations.

On a different note, I updated one of my mods (Unmanned Contracts) to be compatible with AntennaRange

LGG

Edited October 5, 2015 by linuxgurugamer

[Gkirmathal]

Gkirmathal, have a look over the README; it should help.

Kerbas_ad_astra explanation really cleared stuff up Toadicus. Especially how, with VAB range, Kerbin range has to be used as nominalrange2 in the calculation. This was not clear for me from the readme. Might be helpful info to add this more clearly to the readme.

Thanks for all the clarifications and your time guys

Edited October 6, 2015 by Gkirmathal
typo's

[Skalou]

, the "official" way to distribute user-contributed patches for AntennaRange is via the Compatibility Patches page on the github wiki.

Ooh great, i wasn't aware of this,

maybe a link in the OP page could be great to increase the visibility?

[toadicus]

xebx, that sounds like pretty normal behavior. Remember that "additive" ranges mean that the nominal and maximum ranges of a link vary depending on the endpoints. A Comm16->Comm16 link will be very short, a Comm16->Comm88 link will be much longer, and a Comm88->L3TrackingStation link will be very long indeed. From there, the system picks the "best" link based on (more or less) the percentage of that overall distance that lies between the transmitter and the receiver. So in your situation where the Eeloo probe relays through the Jool probe when additive ranges are off, but does not when they are on, the reason is because it is actually "closer", from a radio gain perspective, to Kerbin than it is to the Jool probe. Kerbin is quite a bit better at listening than other probes.

To your first edit question: In general, probes will more often connect directly to Kerbin when you're using additive ranges than they do when you're not, for the reasons I outlined above. When additive ranges is turned off, the receiving antenna is completely ignored and your transmitting antenna will literally pick whatever's closest, no matter what.

The pretty lines system cannot actually be inaccurate; it uses a cache of pre-determined links to decide where to draw the lines.

Claw's BandwidthFix will not operate at all when using AntennaRange; it specifically looks for Squad's transmitter module, which I inherit from but do not keep the name. No adverse interactions should happen at all.

linuxgurugamer, I'm happy to entertain such a prospect. Let me know when you've got something to show me, and what I can do to help out.

I like your concept for showing how antenna pairs perform in game. I'm not sure I'm going to have time to get to that before Squad stockifies the mod, but since that seems to be getting father away every day, I might after all.

Gkirmthal, thanks for the feedback! I'll try to take another pass at the README this weekend.

Skalou, I've added a link to the OP. Thanks for reminding me that I hadn't already.

[linuxgurugamer]

happen at all.

linuxgurugamer, I'm happy to entertain such a prospect. Let me know when you've got something to show me, and what I can do to help out.

OK. I'll PM you with details this evening.

[AlexTheNotSoGreat]

So, basically RemoteTech, but without figuring out all the relay systems and such yourself...

I like it! One thing to make it better (With the 1000-science nodes) is a really big antenna that can reach out to, say, the planets in OPM/Trans-Keptunianin

Edited October 21, 2015 by AlexTheNotSoGreat

[Angelo Kerman]

I started playing with this more as I made sure the Buffalo works with it. It's pretty neat. I have a satellite in orbit of Duna that just has a whip antenna, and it cannot communicate with Kerbin due to a lack of range. I do have a base on Duna, but it too has no long range antenna. It would be nice if my manned base could serve as a tracking station of sorts but I can get around that by adding a high gain antenna and talking to Kerbin.

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

So, basically RemoteTech, but without figuring out all the relay systems and such yourself...

I like it! One thing to make it better (With the 1000-science nodes) is a really big antenna that can reach out to, say, the planets in OPM/Trans-Keptunianin

OPM includes a patch that extends the range of the 88-88. (Trans-Keptunian does not.)

[AlexTheNotSoGreat]

OPM includes a patch that extends the range of the 88-88. (Trans-Keptunian does not.)

Alright, I thought it was only for RT antennae.

- - - update - - -

But here's another Idea. Try to make it so with Extraplanetary Launcpads, you can make those in to independent bases to receive signals for way out missions (with other solar systems installed, or faster transmission). It's only a weak idea, and I can take no for an answer.

Edited October 21, 2015 by AlexTheNotSoGreat

[toadicus]

Angel-125 & AlexTheNotSoGreat, considering that the only purpose of radio connectivity (by default) is to allow science to be sent home to Kerbin, your "manned base" request only makes sense when the option to require connections for probe control is active. Then I also have to do two sets of network resolution: one back to Kerbin and one to do a search for "any available" manned vessel that meets XYZ criteria, which has to be tracked by its own special behavior because module code doesn't run for unloaded vessels. I like the idea of integration with EL better (though it's probably actually even a bit more complicated), but because of the complexity this is something that definitely falls into the "let's see what Squad's AR-stockification brings in 1.1 before I make any promises" basket.

[AlexTheNotSoGreat]

Alright, it's ok. As I said, and as I thought, I will take no for an answer.

[davidy12]

Just to let you know, you missed the Apollo stockalike Antenna from Tantares.

[DTPhantom]

Since upgrading to v.1.10.2 [2015-10-02] with "Require Connection for probe control" ticked - I can't control probes.

I have had to untick that option.

With a Stayputnik, a battery a thermometer and a red-and-white antenna, on the launch pad I get a red icon and cant click the thermometer.

Can you reproduce or is it just me? Happy to rummage through my log file if you tell me what to look for.

(Tracking station is second level if that makes a difference)

------

OK - it is something to do with DTPhantom's Antennas being installed. But there isnt one on the craft and I only ever use them as props. If I remove that mod everything works.

------

I managed to get DTPhantom's Antennas working by editing the .cfg files. All good now.

You mind letting me know what the issue with the .cfg files are? I'm getting ready to release my next update and I am including Antenna Range configs. I don't use Antenna Range so i'm not sure what issues it has.

Thanks.

[Supermarine]

Hello!

I like this mod a lot, and have read through the thread and can't find specific info on the High Gain antenna. Is it better than the 88? Which one has more range?

Thanks!

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

Hello!

I like this mod a lot, and have read through the thread and can't find specific info on the High Gain antenna. Is it better than the 88? Which one has more range?

Thanks!

Looking at the patches applied, the 88 works at longer ranges, but at close range (edit: less than interplanetary), the HGA will give better data rates (=faster transmission).

Edited October 29, 2015 by Kerbas_ad_astra