[1.1.3] AntennaRange 1.11.4 - Enforce and Encourage Antenna Diversity

[scribbleheli]

Right. I just...where did I look that only showed .23 version...

Oh, it was the first thing on google. I wonder what version I have been using then..

I just checked that tread, and it seems that they other users reported the same problem. So hopefully in time it will be updated, I discovered just how much I rely on that damn thing once i lost it.

Thanks for the help!

[void_error]

Just a quick question: I'm using the RemoteTech antennas without the RemoteTech plugin with the MM patch posted here. How do I add AntennaRange to them? I'm assuming there would have be another MM patch for that or just edit AntennaRange.cfg.

The problem is I suck at balancing parts.

Edited November 14, 2015 by void_error

[allenby]

allenby, I just tested my patches including the NEEDS[!RemoteTech] and everything applied just fine. Can you make sure you're using ModuleManager 2.6.13 and that you really don't have any RemoteTech traces around?

Had a chance to do some more testing. I tried manually installing things one at time and checking. ModuleLimitedDataTransfer seems to stop being applied to stock antennas once I install the PhantomAerospace antenna package. Steps:

1) Clean install KSP

2) Copy AntennaRange package to GameData - Stock antennas work as they should ✓

3) Copy PhantomAerospace Antennas package to GameData - Stock antennas no longer have ModuleLimitedDataTransfer applied, but the PhantomAerospace ones do

I still have to look over the files to see what could be causing this, but it's a step in the right direction.

[void_error]

Made a patch for AntennaRange to be used with the stock config for RemoteTech2. You can find it here. Part balancing is not guaranteed.

[Mr Betelgeuse]

Is this mod compatible with planet mods like OPM?

[ModZero]

Is this mod compatible with planet mods like OPM?

You need to increase the range of some antennas, but AFAIR OPM has a MM config that already does that for you (not using OPM right now, due to Kopernicus not being entirely ready for 1.0.5, and it eating all my memory).

[Mulbin]

Can anyone point me to a guide/table that shows the various additive ranges of each antenna with each level of tracking station upgrade?

[ModZero]

Can anyone point me to a guide/table that shows the various additive ranges of each antenna with each level of tracking station upgrade?

Not sure how recent this is, but there was a spreadsheet used to balance the mod some time ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13BxJQrxNytTETv-YluwmPEq6xYcQrNRmy7kxHsYaOOc/edit#gid=1567791694.

[Mulbin]

[quote name='ModZero']Not sure how recent this is, but there was a spreadsheet used to balance the mod some time ago: [url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13BxJQrxNytTETv-YluwmPEq6xYcQrNRmy7kxHsYaOOc/edit#gid=1567791694[/url].[/QUOTE]

Ahh Ok, I'll experiment and alter my configs I think... not really interested in using mod antenna just the stock ones. If I've understood that sheet correctly the mod is now dependent on the origami antenna mod for long range?

[toadicus]

[B]allenby[/B], I can't find PhantomAerospace, so I can't check to see why it might be incompatible. Glad you found your issue, though. :)

Thanks for contributing, [B]void_error[/B]! Consider adding your patch over here: [url]https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/wiki/Compatibility-Patches[/url]

[B]Mr Betelgeuse[/B], [B]ModZero[/B] is correct to the best of my knowledge.

[B]Mulbin[/B], I do my scratch work in the "Symmetric Link Worksheet" tab of this spreadsheet: [url]https://goo.gl/PDT1d0[/url] I'm still looking into a good way to get things conveyed in game.

[B]ModZero[/B], thanks for fielding questions! :)

[Waxing_Kibbous]

Just wanted to say this is a nice little mod that adds a bit of a fun challenge which is always a good thing, well done! :cool:

[void_error]

[quote name='toadicus']
Thanks for contributing, [B]void_error[/B]! Consider adding your patch over here: [URL]https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/wiki/Compatibility-Patches[/URL]
[/QUOTE]
It'll need some more testing/tweaks, hopefully I'll get something done this weekend. I was too lazy to add all the disclaimer/whatever stuff... I did the patch in about 30 minutes most of which was loading KSP.

[quote name='toadicus']
I do my scratch work in the "Symmetric Link Worksheet" tab of this spreadsheet: [URL]https://goo.gl/PDT1d0[/URL] I'm still looking into a good way to get things conveyed in game.[/QUOTE]
Nice, I now have something that can help to balance everything out, rather than reverse engineering/carefully measuring everything by eye. Thanks for the link :)

[Mr Betelgeuse]

Wonderful mod. I installed it on an active career mode save of mine and everything has red lines. Even the ones in LKO orbit. Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?

[linuxgurugamer]

[quote name='Mr Betelgeuse']Wonderful mod. I installed it on an active career mode save of mine and everything has red lines. Even the ones in LKO orbit. Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?[/QUOTE]

Do they have antennas?

[toadicus]

[B]Mr Betelgeuse[/B], a follow-up question to [B]linuxgurugamer[/B]'s would be: "if so, do the antennas have long enough range?" The small Comm 16 antenna only reaches to 120 km when paired with an un-upgraded tracking station.

[Mr Betelgeuse]

[quote name='toadicus'][B]Mr Betelgeuse[/B], a follow-up question to [B]linuxgurugamer[/B]'s would be: "if so, do the antennas have long enough range?" The small Comm 16 antenna only reaches to 120 km when paired with an un-upgraded tracking station.[/QUOTE]

Yes I got an antenna. It's a small one, but it's in a 70k orbit around Kerbin. Does this mod not work in an existing save? Edited November 21, 2015 by Mr Betelgeuse

[Skalou]

Toadicus,

i think i've found a really small bug:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/cjOk8ws.png[/IMG]

tourists (so in career mode) can control the ship if there is a probe even without any connections (no antenna on this test ship) and the "require connection for probe control" parameter.


antenna range 1.10.3 with KSP 1.0.5.1028

[jlcarneiro]

Interesting! Never noticed that because, due to using RT before, I always include an antenna just after including a probe core...

Great catch!

[John Nowak]

[quote name='Skalou']tourists (so in career mode) can control the ship if there is a probe even without any connections (no antenna on this test ship) and the "require connection for probe control" parameter.[/QUOTE]

What a neat observation! I don't know if that's a bug. It seems that having a tourist fly is possible. It's just a really bad idea.

[toadicus]

[B]Mr Betelgeuse[/B], I'm not aware of anything that would stop it from working in an existing save. All the modules should get added retroactively by ModuleManager. Can you get me a log after a run of the game that exhibits the problem?

Thanks for the report, [B]Skalou[/B]! I don't think I ever updated the "do we have crew?" code to check to make sure the crew isn't 100% tourist. ;) I'll get it sorted!

[Fubarbrickdust]

First off, I just wanted to say 'nice one' to toadicus - this is a totally cool mod!
I tried both this and RT...and to be fair, while RT is awesome it's just a touch too hardcore difficulty for my tastes and require a level of micromanagement and such that were threatening to steal the Kerbal-fun from my game!

On that point, and not wanting to sound middley-moddIey - I was wondering if yourself or anyone knew if there are any more ways to up the difficulty with AR a bit, just a smidgen? Maybe with fiddling around in the cfg files or some such?

Speciffically:

1. Is it all possible to turn Kerbin itself into a body that can block AR line of sight and shift the 'central point' of connection to the surface where the KSC is? - therefore creating more of a need to setup a proper Kerbin comm-sat network...

2. Is there a way to nerf the Communitron16 a tiny bit (the 1st red/white extendable looking one - I think that's what it's called). Maybe it's just because I'm still early game at the mo, but it feels like it might be a little op as its reaches out to just past Minmus/Kerbin SOI and sorta negates the use of anything bigger before you start going interplanetary.
Or is that completely by design/am I vastly underestimating the bigger picture and scale of the Kerbol system?

Anyhoos, that's it. And thanks again for taking the time and inclination to make the mod, it really does get a big thumbs up. And no worries if the answer to these is a big NO (especially No.1) Just thought I'd ask and see if it was a possibility...

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Cheers,
Fubar.

[Skalou]

So what will you do? you will make it check the traits of the crew?

i have some other questions, and sometime picture are easier to tell things (and make me going back to childhood :P ),

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MXpJXoj.jpg[/IMG]

what happen to the rover A? is it controlable?
- if at least 1 pilot is in the ship B.
- if there is a crew in B but no pilot (engineer or scientist).
- actually (AR 1.10.3) and for the future planned realease.

Maybe i've read something like these in these thread, and also in a devnote for the future 1.1 feature (that i wish will look-like the best of Antenna range and remote-tech), but i don't remenber well.

[U]Edit:[/U]
[B]Fubarbrickdust, [/B]good point for the 1. : actually no, but it's planned for the stock 1.1 if i remenber.

for the 2. in career mode [QUOTE][U]Toadicus p.92:[/U]
the small Comm 16 antenna only reaches to 120 km when paired with an un-upgraded tracking station.[/QUOTE]

:wink: Edited November 22, 2015 by Skalou

[Fubarbrickdust]

[quote name='Skalou']
[U]Edit:[/U]
[B]Fubarbrickdust, [/B]good point for the 1. : actually no, but it's planned for the stock 1.1 if i remenber.

for the 2. in career mode

:wink:[/QUOTE]

Cool, cheers man.

As for point 1. - Fairy muff...I thought might be easier said than done.

And 2. - Ah, I see. As it happens though I am in a career game, with an upgraded Tracking Station so I guess that's the thing - the question still stands, however.

[toadicus]

[B]Skalou[/B], I coded the change today and now instead of just checking if a part has crew > min crew, I count the crew and exclude the tourists. That doesn't change unmanned behavior at all such as in the case you depict.

I have not added remote control stations like your rover control ship because its computationally expensive in the general case. I can't just search back for a path back to Kerbin, I'd need to keep looking through the network until I found a control point, until the whole connected network was exhausted.

On the other hand... I could pretty easily enable remote control points within a single link. Put differently, I could easily allow control if there is a crewed vessel with a direct connection to the probe in question. What do people think about that option?

[B]Fubarbrickdust[/B], there's no realistic way to nerf the Comm 16 more without making it useless in T1, which is the primary time its currently useful. When you upgrade your listening device (tracking station) you necesarrily expand all of the link ranges back to it. Remember that the DSN could hear my kids' walkie talkie more "loudly" on the moon than it can hear Voyager right now. :-)

[Fubarbrickdust]

[quote name='toadicus']

[B]Fubarbrickdust[/B], there's no realistic way to nerf the Comm 16 more without making it useless in T1, which is the primary time its currently useful. When you upgrade your listening device (tracking station) you necesarrily expand all of the link ranges back to it. Remember that the DSN could hear my kids' walkie talkie more "loudly" on the moon than it can hear Voyager right now. :-)[/QUOTE]

Okeydokey. When you put it that way I guess it kinda makes sense...better get my little green guys outta Kerbins SOI to bring out the big guns then! Thanks man.

[quote name='toadicus']

On the other hand... I could pretty easily enable remote control points within a single link. Put differently, I could easily allow control if there is a crewed vessel with a direct connection to the probe in question. What do people think about that option?

[/QUOTE]

This sounds pretty cool, actually :)