(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[SaladFingers]

Pretty challenging mission, I have never done something like that before so I will give it a try.

[davidparks21]

Word of advice: do not thrust delimit one engine on your lander to 5.5 and the other to 100 and then forget about it.

Or if you're going to do so you should probably double down on SAS modules.

I learned the hard way to test my lander on kerbin before sending it off to do its thing on Tylo. I always forget _something_!

[parzr]

It's a unique solution for sure but wouldn't it be better to put your mothership in orbit of one of the moons and use a tug to go out from there? You can use Laythe for the aerobraking getting back from the other moons, or Vall for its central location and lower gravity than Laythe or Tylo.

Ziv, what's your stance on sending up a plane or rocket to collect the crew from LKO when the mission is over? If I couldn't, I guess I could use my Laythe plane to ferry the crew down but it only takes 2 kerbals and there are 10 in total. I'd rather not take 5 trips but I could if I have to.

Setting up around a moon requires a Hohmann xfer to the moon and then to the fuel barge. unless your tug has enough to not need to come back, you're better off aerobreaking enough for Jool capture and then again for Laythe capture on the next available orbit.

Still learning but kinda like most things, you can save money if you're willing to expend time and effort.

[Ziv]

Okay, Ziv. Here are the links to the videos.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Also, some things I forgot to mention earlier:

-On the launchpad the ship weighs 1055.81t (I didn't even consider attempting the light-weight challenge! )

-It also has 310 parts.

-The mission was performed in version 0.24.2

-I used no mods at all.

-There was only one launch with no refuelling.

-You will see in the videos but both the Bop and Pol landings were performed using the EVA pack only.

-EDIT: Forgot this one! I didn't use any quicksaves throughout the whole mission. I Had to redo the entire thing due to messing up at the last hurdle several times

Hopefully you have enough information to judge my attempt, if not then I'll do my best to provide more.

hazard-ish: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 1!

WHAT? NO QUICK SAVES??? OMG, you just got a "Realistic Space Explorer" Award!!!

Your Laythe and Tylo landers are nice low-weight ones. I liked the Laythe lander deorbiter module! People usually think there's no need for any dV to land on Laythe but deorbiting can cost some hundred dV too.

Talking about fuel efficiency, your landing on Tylo was not efficient because you stopped very high above and fought the gravity during 23 km of descending. You could have saved some hundered m/s dV if you just lower your orbit and brake just above the ground. But you managed the landing so good job anyway.

I was very surprised when you landed on Vall with your main ship!!! I've never seen a solution like this but I really liked it! Makes the whole mission a lot easier!

I also like how you decoupled the empty fuel tanks from the main ship during the mission. Seems like a good planning!

Good job on the EVA landings too!

Nice mission, thank you for participating!

Edited November 15, 2014 by Ziv

[hazard-ish]

hazard-ish: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 1!

WHAT? NO QUICK SAVES??? OMG, you just got a "Realistic Space Explorer" Award!!!

Your LaytheTylo landers are nice low-weight ones. I liked the Laythe lander deorbiter module! People usually think there's no need for any dV to land on Laythe but deorbiting can cost some hundred dV too.

Talking about fuel efficiency, your landing on Tylo was not efficient because you stopped very high above and fought the gravity during 23 km of descending. You could have saved some hundered m/s dV if you just lower your orbit and brake just above the ground. But you managed the landing so good job anyway.

I was very surprised when you landed on Vall with your main ship!!! I've never seen a solution like this but I really liked it! Makes the whole mission a lot easier!

I also like how you decoupled the empty fuel tanks from the main ship during the mission. Seems like a good planning!

Good job on the EVA landings too!

Nice mission, thank you for participating!

Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to review my submission, I was really hoping there would be enough in those videos for you to judge my attempt because the actualy recordinf has since become corrupted to I can no longer edit it! Looks like I wont need to though.

I realise that now, regarding the tylo landing efficiency, and let's face it: My vall landing was probably one of the most inefficient methods there is

Edited November 15, 2014 by hazard-ish

[Ziv]

Hi all, I 'did' all 5 Jool moons as well. Mission report is here

Yes, I used Mechjeb. Hope you approve my submission. Otherwise, have a nice read

Hi, can you please tell me what mods did you use? And can you please upload pictures with the info screens about the fuel levels and deltaVs on during the key moments? (launch, moving between planets/moons, before/during/after landing, docking-redocking, return to home) Because this is not enough for me to check if your mission happened as it is on the pictures.

[Ziv]

Ziv, what's your stance on sending up a plane or rocket to collect the crew from LKO when the mission is over? If I couldn't, I guess I could use my Laythe plane to ferry the crew down but it only takes 2 kerbals and there are 10 in total. I'd rather not take 5 trips but I could if I have to.

I consider the JOOL-5 as a realistic mission from Kerbin surface to Kerbin surface. So every launch, every refueling and every landing has to be played and documented until all the Kerbals arrive back onto the surface of Kerbin.

[1of6Billion]

Hi, can you please tell me what mods did you use? And can you please upload pictures with the info screens about the fuel levels and deltaVs on during the key moments? (launch, moving between planets/moons, before/during/after landing, docking-redocking, return to home) Because this is not enough for me to check if your mission happened as it is on the pictures.

Mods used:

Mechjeb and KW Rocketry for structural and navigational purposes. DMagic for science.

Apart from the screenshots shown in my reports, there are none. Too bad if that means I can't apply. I enjoyed doing it anyway

I did this challenge countless times. Only to fail at on point or the other. In which case I wouldn't post my report. Now everything worked out. So no cheating. I understand you need more than that.

[Meithan]

Meithan: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 1!

Your mission report is exceptionally well detailed, that's very nice and will be useful for many others, that's for sure! And writing a computer program to calculate the changes of mass, fuel and deltaV well, that's a whole new level!

Woo!! Thanks a lot! I'm very happy to be on that list. I've proudly added the badge (which is great, by the way!) to my signature.

And you went with a good old modular lander with only one lander can method, that's cool, it's been a while when somebody went this way.

My Jool 5 mission was part of a broader effort to land kerbals on all solid surfaces quickly and efficiently (which I've completed). On all missions the emphasis was on low mass and simplicity. The poor kerbals all went to their destinations in single-man lander cans.

I also liked that you left your main ship in orbit between the moons and used a moon-tug to bring your lander to the moons - that's the most optimal in terms of fuel/weight but people usually put their main ship around the moons which means they move a huge weight and waste a lot of fuel. I guess they are afraid of docking in a Jool orbit - maybe they think it's like docking around Kerbol, which can be really hard for beginners. But around Jool it's very similar to any planet.

Yeah, I spent quite some time reviewing options during mission planning. The idea of using an "moon-tug" to bring the landers to low orbit I think I saw from your entry, in fact. I think it's a great idea. As you say, rendezvous and docking isn't really any harder than around Kerbin. The only troublesome part is perhaps avoiding Tylo's huge SOI.

I guess maybe you had some hard time docking the lander together sometimes as there were no probe cores on the lander engines, don't you?

Not much trouble, no. Remember I had a small RCS tug (which has a probe core) to do all this. I'd just detach the lander parts, wait until they drifted a bit, and then dock the RCS tug, which has docking ports on both ends. In retrospect, though, I think the RCS from the crew capsule is enough to do all this. Also, the Docking Port Alignment Indicator makes docking much easier, once you learn how to read the visual cues.

And there was no fuel consumption tracking on your main ship but as it went only from Kerbin to Jool orbit and back home, that must not be so bad... hmm, but it refueled the lander-tug many times, hmm... maybe was it close? Do you have any screenshots on this? Anyway, it seems possible for me so I believe it worked well.

I admit I did not properly document this mission for a challenge entry. To be honest at first I wasn't thinking about submitting it to the challenge, so I did not take the proper steps to gather clear proof of the key points -- that's something I've now learned (and I intend to submit an Eve landing challenge entry soon).

I spent an hour this morning scavenging through the raw screenshots in my KSP folder, and I found a few screenshots (imgur album) with fuel levels or delta-v shown on screen, which should provide additional proof of some key points of the mission.

In particular, you might want to look at the delta-v left reported by MechJeb after the Jool ejection burn at the end of mission and visible fuel levels just before the aerocapture pass in Kerbin's atmosphere.

I usually don't like shuttles to end the mission but it would be easy for you to put a docking port + parachute module on the ship and I guess you might want to use your main ship later too, so it's all right.

Yes, the shuttle was not a matter of necessity (in terms of not having enough fuel to get back to Kerbin's surface) but just of common procedure, as done in all my missions. All interplanetary ships are left parked in a 1000 km orbit and I recover the kerbal with a shuttle. I just love docking in Kerbin orbit, to be honest .

Edited November 15, 2014 by Meithan

[Thunderous Echo]

Note to self: 'Quicksave As' is Alt-f5, not Alt-f4.

[Ziv]

note to self: 'quicksave as' is alt-f5, not alt-f4.

:D

[davidparks21]

Note to self: 'Quicksave As' is Alt-f5, not Alt-f4.

LOL, the kraken that hides between the seat and the keyboard strikes again! I've encountered him before too...

[invultri]

Hello,

I am considering to try this myself. I was looking at the mod lists and noticed that real chutes is missing on both. Is it allowed or not ?

Edit:

Would boxsat be allowed?

Edited November 16, 2014 by invultri

[sdj64]

Finished my Jool-5 mission, level 2+3. 2 kerbals on each moon, 10 kerbals in total. I hope that it was well-documented enough, if not, I have backup quicksaves at many important points so I can provide more screenshots if needed. I realize it isn't the typical look of a Jool-5 ship but I enjoyed the challenge of designing a ship that's both aesthetically pleasing and highly functional. I hope the level of part clipping is minimal enough, there's absolutely no fuel tank clipping, only a tiny bit of clipping where wings didn't quite fit together.

Version 0.25

only mods used were KER and EVE (all stock parts)

10 kerbals on the mission - 2 kerbals land on each moon

one launch from Kerbin

no hitchhiker containers, the kerbals lived in mk2 passenger cabins

no refueling needed

no additional stuff brought along

Delta-V information:

The mothership has about 7600 dV. KER might have been a bit confused with the landers loaded. The universal lander has a little over 3000 dV and the plane has about 1700 (in vacuum with tanks full). The Heavy Landing Pod (HeLP) gives the lander about 2500 more if it is dropped when it runs out of fuel and the two small drop tanks for the plane give it about 400 more.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I have done the Jool-5 before, in 0.23, but it was cool to do this challenge again. It really shows how far KSP has come and how much I've improved in the 10 months since that attempt. Here's my previous mission for those interested:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/57197-The-ultimate-Jool-5-challenge-land-Kerbals-on-all-moons-and-return-in-one-big-misson?p=916716&viewfull=1#post916716

[Ziv]

Hello,

I am considering to try this myself. I was looking at the mod lists and noticed that real chutes is missing on both. Is it allowed or not ?

Edit:

Would boxsat be allowed?

Links please! Make my job easier...

[invultri]

Links please! Make my job easier...

Realchute: https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/71

Boxsat: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/91616-0-25-BoxSat-vA-02b-Updated-10-13-2014

[Thunderous Echo]

I should have accounted for Laythe's slopes, my topheavy lander can only land on its poles.

[Thunderous Echo]

Well, I know what I'm doing after I finish my Grand Tour.

The RSS Jupiter-4 Challenge. (Or maybe I'll hack an asteroid into orbit and do Jupiter-5).

[jaddbo]

took me 11 days, but i got this done (level 2)

mods: KW rocketry, procedural fairings, mechjeb, kerbal engineer, time control, atmospheric trajectories, KAS, toolbar, and i used hyper-edit to test my tylo lander. (this was my first landing on tylo)

i did not need a refueling mission, but i almost did. i used 0.25, and i only needed 3 launches (one for the main ship[i included the tylo lander], one for the other two landers, and one more for the crew and to top off the fuel tanks)

the tylo landing was very close, but it made it! the layth landing was the only one that was not close on the fuel, and my kerbal engineer was lying to me and was figuring in the fuel supply to refuel the lander, so i had a lot less fuel than i thought i would have.

i would have made a vid. but i don't have any recording software. so i just made an album of photos here

my main craft (on the launchpad) weighed 4095.07 tons, cost 2,113,349 kerbal dollars, and was 534 parts.

my next craft (on the launchpad) weighed 598.55 tons, cost 558,037 kerbal dollars, and was 406 parts.

my final craft (on the launchpad) was 585 parts, and weighed 663.44 tons

Edited November 17, 2014 by jaddbo

[Thunderous Echo]

I have learned a few things in my time on Laythe:

1) If your lander is too topheavy, land on the poles. They're pretty flat.

2) Saying that, the poles may be too flat. As in, flatter than Minmus. It just doesn't make good scenery.

3) So flat, in fact, you can reach 43 m/s in an ION POWERED ROVER.

4) If a kerbal gets out of a chair while underneath your lander, he ends up on top of your lander (This is especially useful if you docked your modular lander in the wrong order and your ladder is inaccessible).

5) Laythe's atmosphere is 55 km tall. Jet engines still work past 65 km, with a barometric pressure of "IN VACUUM". Should I be alarmed?

6) On the very edge of Laythe's atmosphere, the drag actually appears to be negative. The air speeds you up at high altitudes. Again, should I be alarmed?

P.S. I pulled an Apollo 11 when I lifted off from Tylo.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Thunderous Echo

[Xannari Ferrows]

Gods, I really want to do this challenge, but I'm running so many missions and I really don't have the time to design a ship of epic proportions. I'd probably take me about a half a day of so to develop a rocket that can lift straight from Kerbin to every body in the Kerbol system, but I don't have half a day. I'm almost willing to put aside my missions for now to build one, but I need a word from someone:

Is delaying 62 missions, a couple of which need course corrections and special management needs worth this challenge? I mean, it sounds fairly easy actually (not to boast), but also extremely time consuming.

[ElWanderer]

6) On the very edge of Laythe's atmosphere, the drag actually appears to be negative. The air speeds you up at high altitudes.

I noticed this, when the 855km by 50km orbit that I set-up changed to 860km by 50km after a pass or two through the upper atmosphere. Thought I was going mad... Then I lowered the periapsis to 44km and that did start a slow aerobrake as intended.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

Gods, I really want to do this challenge, but I'm running so many missions and I really don't have the time to design a ship of epic proportions. I'd probably take me about a half a day of so to develop a rocket that can lift straight from Kerbin to every body in the Kerbol system, but I don't have half a day. I'm almost willing to put aside my missions for now to build one, but I need a word from someone:

Is delaying 62 missions, a couple of which need course corrections and special management needs worth this challenge? I mean, it sounds fairly easy actually (not to boast), but also extremely time consuming.

It might be best to start a new Career save for this and doing things slowly... with the new difficulty options, I have a fast-track save that I unlock the Tech fast, but still have to build up Rep before I get the right missions (this is turning out to be a right pain to do, but with a little extra Funding here and there I think I'm making it work... this time...)

It's well worth a go no matter how you decide to do it - Career is only required for the Jebediah level, so you could do any of the first 3 levels in a sandbox

[Xannari Ferrows]

It might be best to start a new Career save for this and doing things slowly... with the new difficulty options, I have a fast-track save that I unlock the Tech fast, but still have to build up Rep before I get the right missions (this is turning out to be a right pain to do, but with a little extra Funding here and there I think I'm making it work... this time...)

It's well worth a go no matter how you decide to do it - Career is only required for the Jebediah level, so you could do any of the first 3 levels in a sandbox

Alright, I'll take your word for it. I'd like to see this challenge in action for myself, by myself! (Insert incredibly corny Tylo pun here, as well as a teaspoon of vinegar)

[davidparks21]

Gods, I really want to do this challenge, but I'm running so many missions and I really don't have the time to design a ship of epic proportions. I'd probably take me about a half a day of so to develop a rocket that can lift straight from Kerbin to every body in the Kerbol system, but I don't have half a day. I'm almost willing to put aside my missions for now to build one, but I need a word from someone:

Is delaying 62 missions, a couple of which need course corrections and special management needs worth this challenge? I mean, it sounds fairly easy actually (not to boast), but also extremely time consuming.

It's well worth it, but I bet it takes you more than half a day...