PorkWorks dev thread [Habitat Pack] [SpaceplanePlus]

[ZodiusInfuser]

Your new parts look good on my fusion SSTO.

Awesome craft you've got there!! Just goes to show how much the stock aircraft parts need an update. One day it should be possible to create that (minus warp) with stock-alike parts alone.

[lincourtl]

The IVA will have to wait I guess, sorry. I wanna get the actual parts done before I start IVA's, and the unfinished Habitat Pack IVA's still have priority.

Hey, work on what moves you. I'm just over the moon with the parts you've been making. I might say I can't wait, but trust me, I can.

[Starwaster]

First off, your new cockpit is GORGEOUS and I'm crazy excited to see what other parts you come up with.

I just tried the cockpit and crew fuselage out and found that they are breaking FAR. All my other planes are great, but if I load a plane with one of those parts, the FAR button doesn't show up on the toolbar, and I can tell that stock aerodynamics are applying.

I was able to fix it by modifying both CFGs and changing the line that says "module = Winglet" to say "module = Part". That got FAR running again. I don't know if it's the best solution, but wanted to provide feedback.

Thanks again for the beautiful parts!

I don't think there's any valid reason to use the module variable for anything. That's just legacy functionality they left in. It's superseded by MODULE{} type nodes. (typically when things are deprecated they're left in place so as not to break any old assets)

There's MODULE functionality for lifting/controls surfaces and that's what Porkjet needs to use

[borisperrons]

Just finished the first cockpit. I made it more pointy than originally scribbled. Cos we're talking spaceplanes. They dash through the atmosphere like a greased up lightning, so I tried to make it 'look faster'

Can't wait to put it in the game tomorrow.

http://i.imgur.com/4AQRAKI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZVZkT1m.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dVcUTWI.jpg

That's... beautiful...

[Porkjet]

First off, your new cockpit is GORGEOUS and I'm crazy excited to see what other parts you come up with.

I just tried the cockpit and crew fuselage out and found that they are breaking FAR. All my other planes are great, but if I load a plane with one of those parts, the FAR button doesn't show up on the toolbar, and I can tell that stock aerodynamics are applying.

I was able to fix it by modifying both CFGs and changing the line that says "module = Winglet" to say "module = Part". That got FAR running again. I don't know if it's the best solution, but wanted to provide feedback.

Thanks again for the beautiful parts!

Hmm... strange. How does FAR handle the stock wings then? They are set up like this too. Thanks for the feedback

I don't think there's any valid reason to use the module variable for anything. That's just legacy functionality they left in. It's superseded by MODULE{} type nodes. (typically when things are deprecated they're left in place so as not to break any old assets)

There's MODULE functionality for lifting/controls surfaces and that's what Porkjet needs to use

Is there a module for static wings? All the stock wings still use this old system. Only the movable control surfaces have their own module, but can that be used for static wings too?

[Captain Sierra]

Okay, these parts are amazing. Here's my take on balance for them. First, you seriously need to include with this a modulemanager file to add lift rating to the stock mk 2 fuselages, otherwise I'm finding it very hard to lift balance craft realistically.

Also, assuming the crew cabin is seating it's passengers airliner style, it looks to hold 4. Said crew cabin also weighs as much as full mk 2 fuselage, so on the heavy side.

Lastly, the lift balance on those parts is a bit high. I mean quite a bit. Lifting bodies tend to be slightly less efficient than the equivalent wing area, so I personally would being the cockpit down under 1. That's less than realistic, but otherwise I have to fight my CoL to keep it far enough back to avoid flipping out. Now of course, the aforementioned modulemanager file giving lift to stock parts would also help that a lot.

[Read have Read]

FAR uses module manager to input aerodynamic information for stock parts

@PART[deltaWing]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 2.264
		e = 0.75
		MidChordSweep = 22.16
		b_2 = 3.601
		TaperRatio = 0.188
	}
}

For things like tanks it will also make inferences based on Node size and other things to figure out a part's aerodynamic behaviour. It is important to size the nodes correctly to the part's diameter size for this reason.

. Parts with the words Fairing, Payload, Bay, will shield the objects inside from being acted on aerodynamically. The KSO has trouble with the part origins for the wings being inside the payload bay for this reason.

But for stock, I'd think having a lifting surface at the very nose of my plane would be more trouble than it is worth, considering the Centre of Mass should always be ahead of the Centre of Pressure/Lift/Aerodynamics. I wouldn't put any wings on the front half of a plane unless it was movable canards really. Now, I might be biased, but maybe you should leave body lift to FAR.

[schoff123]

Speaking of the KSO, there seems to a bug of some sort between this new cockpit, the CoL, and the control surfaces used by the KSO. Only when i attach KSO control surfaces to a spaceplane with Porjet's new cockpit does the CoL move so a new position, regardless of any other (including stock) control surfaces.

Does anyone else have this issue? i am unsure if it has to do with any of the other mods i have installed.

[Dave7]

Hey Porkjet, don't know how much trouble it would be but it would be nice to have a 3-2 and 4-3 version of those strut adapters you made. I was going to try to resize the 4-2 one but the mu importer for blender didn't work, or I don't know what I'm doing (probably the latter).

[RogueMason]

I realised I haven't yet sung my praises for this amazing work, Porkjet. While I actually only have the centrifuge and the large inflatable hab installed, I have to say that I'm very impressed. And that cockpit... I look forward to the full version. I actually think this should all be implemented into the stock game.

Keep up the great work!

[Starwaster]

Hmm... strange. How does FAR handle the stock wings then? They are set up like this too. Thanks for the feedback

Is there a module for static wings? All the stock wings still use this old system. Only the movable control surfaces have their own module, but can that be used for static wings too?

Ok, sorry I didn't realize all the stock wing parts were still using Winglet. That's odd because there is a PartModule for lift now. Maybe they just didn't get around to switching them. But the module is ModuleAerodynamicLift

Below is a list of properties that can be set for it. The list comes from the class metainfo but in the absence of example usage I'm not sure what good values would be for it. I haven't done a forum search for that yet but I'll see if I can find out something.

{

    public string centerOfLiftTransformName;

    public FloatCurve dragAoA;

    public float dragFactor;

    public FloatCurve liftAoA;

    public float liftFactor;

    public float planformArea;

FAR uses module manager to input aerodynamic information for stock parts

For things like tanks it will also make inferences based on Node size and other things to figure out a part's aerodynamic behaviour. It is important to size the nodes correctly to the part's diameter size for this reason.

. Parts with the words Fairing, Payload, Bay, will shield the objects inside from being acted on aerodynamically. The KSO has trouble with the part origins for the wings being inside the payload bay for this reason.

But for stock, I'd think having a lifting surface at the very nose of my plane would be more trouble than it is worth, considering the Centre of Mass should always be ahead of the Centre of Pressure/Lift/Aerodynamics. I wouldn't put any wings on the front half of a plane unless it was movable canards really. Now, I might be biased, but maybe you should leave body lift to FAR.

Not everyone has FAR or wants it. There should be a stock solution implemented if at all possible in the default download. FAR should be considered optional only.

[TimMartland]

Give it to us! IT MUST BE OURS!

Seriously, its awesome. Any chance that you could create matching LFO, crew and cargo bay modules, maybe with some inflatable extensions?

[Starwaster]

Oooooo. Looks like ModuleAerodynamicLift is not something recent.... it dates back to 2012. Not sure what the implications are.

Formerly used and outdated? Except that I don't recall ever having seen it at all.

Implemented but never adopted?

Anyway I found this post http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/7529-Plugin-Posting-Rules-And-Official-Documentation?p=156431&viewfull=1#post156431

That gives some explanation for the variables and some example usage.

But those transformname variables could imply additional setup in the mesh. You might be better off sticking with 'module = Winglet'. Or maybe this is still worth looking into. I just don't know.

[DevL]

Also, assuming the crew cabin is seating it's passengers airliner style, it looks to hold 4.

I respectfully disagree. To me the hatch takes up one of four seats. I can't see a way for four kerbals to shuffle around when the innermost needs to exit. Seating for three seems to be reasonable given the cramped conditions.

Lastly, the lift balance on those parts is a bit high. I mean quite a bit. Lifting bodies tend to be slightly less efficient than the equivalent wing area, so I personally would being the cockpit down under 1. That's less than realistic, but otherwise I have to fight my CoL to keep it far enough back to avoid flipping out. Now of course, the aforementioned modulemanager file giving lift to stock parts would also help that a lot.

Agreed. Slightly lowering the lift values and adding lift values to other Mk2 components would make sense. Of course, we can help Porkjet finding the right balance by tinkering ourselves and recommending a full set of values in this thread.

[Read have Read]

Not everyone has FAR or wants it. There should be a stock solution implemented if at all possible in the default download. FAR should be considered optional only.

You misunderstand me Starwaster, That is my opinion as well. However there does exist a stock solution that can be applied to any cockpit or fuselage - you hide a wing inside the part.

You use the word solution, what was the problem it addresses? That there isnt body lift in KSP? I have made sausage shaped mini planes with nothing but a cockpit, fuel tank, engine and control surfaces before. A cockpit that produces lift might not help unless you have a fuel tank that produces lift.

As much as I like Porkjet's innovation and novelty, a cockpit that must be mounted at the extreme nose of an aircraft that uniquely affects the centre of lift - being the only part that does this - Might be more trouble that it is worth.

It can't replace canards on a delta wing design, nor a tail on a conventional design, and on a mini shuttle design it is liable to pull the COL too far forwards on the already small craft thus requirering even larger wings to counter act that cockpit lift ior more weight near the nose to heing the COM forwards.

By all means, you could try and find the sweetspot or 'perfect value' for lift rating on a cockpit, but I will be suprised if it is a signifigant value.

Like someone else said, the lift factor for the cockpit (and other spaceplane parts imo) should be optional and in a modulemanager file.

TL;DR: Yes FAR should be optional, but so should this lift rating. (Unless applied to more parts)

P.S. PorkJet, you are awesome and you make awesome stuff

[DevL]

For anyone that wants to remove the lift on the parts, you can use Module Manager with something like this:

@PART[mk2Cockpit]:Final
{
  @module = Part
  !dragCoeff
  !deflectionLiftCoeff
}

@PART[mk2CrewCabin]:Final
{
  @module = Part
  !dragCoeff
  !deflectionLiftCoeff
}

[Elthy]

You do wonderfull things, Porkjet!

http://i.imgur.com/OlVjyY4.png

Where does the plant module come from?

[Captain Sierra]

You do wonderfull things, Porkjet!

Where does the plant module come from?

Lack Luster Labs.

[Elthy]

Thank you!

[Boamere]

For anyone that wants to remove the lift on the parts, you can use Module Manager with something like this:

@PART[mk2Cockpit]:Final
{
  @module = Part
  !dragCoeff
  !deflectionLiftCoeff
}

@PART[mk2CrewCabin]:Final
{
  @module = Part
  !dragCoeff
  !deflectionLiftCoeff
}

So how would I go about using it?

I am using FAR and love the look of this cockpit but i'm scared it will screw with my aerodynamics

[DevL]

So how would I go about using it?

I am using FAR and love the look of this cockpit but i'm scared it will screw with my aerodynamics

Assuming that you've got ModuleManager installed, put it into a .cfg file (e.g. Spaceplaneplus.cfg) somewhere under Gamedata (I keep mine under a DevL directory). If you at anytime want to get rid of the modification, just delete the file and restart KSP.

[Boamere]

Assuming that you've got ModuleManager installed, put it into a .cfg file (e.g. Spaceplaneplus.cfg) somewhere under Gamedata (I keep mine under a DevL directory). If you at anytime want to get rid of the modification, just delete the file and restart KSP.

Ah thanks!

I thought you had to name it something specific

[MaverickSawyer]

After some initial testing, I have determined that cutting the new Mk 2 cockpit's lift rating to 0.8 makes a HUGE difference in handling, allowing you to make some FANTASTIC aircraft designs. Can't wait to see what else you make in that line after you finish the inflatable interiors.

[Porkjet]

Hey, so, apparently I can just add ferram wing config stuff to the CFG's which will not affect anything on a stock install but will hopefully make em work with ferram.

Unfortunately I don't really know what all these parameters do, so I've just copied what ferram added to the stock wing connector part as a placeholder for now.

If anyone here is an expert with FAR configs feel free to correct these as you see fit and I'll include them in the pack.

MODULE

{

name = FARWingAerodynamicModel

MAC = 3.516

e = 0.7

MidChordSweep = 0

b_2 = 1.744

TaperRatio = 1

}

[Boamere]

Hey porkjet i have noticed that the hatch on your capsule is always "obstructed" My kerbals can't get out