[WIP][TechTree @ 0.23.5] - [MS19e] - Realistic Progression LITE

[Guest]

Aazard: You have it quite right!

Here's an easy-fix zip (also fixes issues with Procedural Fairings interstage). Extract it into GameData AFTER you install Stretchy and Proc Fairnigs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/40887vdxafxe92q/RPLFixes_ST_PF.zip

Licenses prevent it, yes. The best bet is to use the RSS Mod Bundler, which basically creates that "big zip" for you.

humm i have seen this, is there a combined RPL/RO/RSS manifest for it? the list of RO fixes applied after installing a mod (like redavr8r's fixes, or dragons realism pack) would still need to be applied manually or they would be "auto applied" to the zip?

A nice easy to read "installation instructions for RPL tech tree in RSS with RO fixes applied" (or some more catchy title) would be of great benefit, infact i may try writing one and PM'ing it to Medieval Nerd, I personally had some issues when i was fresh in the RPL/RSS community with the installation/configuration.

PS: i hope my zip for the TAC RO stuff wasnt horrible, but i dont have a great grip on how to make the changes without the "part.cfg" edits (if you could PM me about what i could do with the @part method to achive what i did that would be great, the bobcat soviet and FASA stuff give the most issues with built-in the ECLSS resources/regenerators)

[Doc_Ruby]

Aazard: You have it quite right!

Here's an easy-fix zip (also fixes issues with Procedural Fairings interstage). Extract it into GameData AFTER you install Stretchy and Proc Fairnigs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/40887vdxafxe92q/RPLFixes_ST_PF.zip

Licenses prevent it, yes. The best bet is to use the RSS Mod Bundler, which basically creates that "big zip" for you.

Thanks Nathan! Unfortunately, no change.

The only liquid tank I start with is still the Oscar-B fuel tank.

I gain access to the following stretchy tanks in the "Basic Rocketry" node for 50 science:

Conic

Conic Balloon

Conic Cryogenic Balloon

Conic Cryogenic

Conic Service

Cylindrical Service

Here's a couple screenshots that may illustrate this better:

Selecting the 'Free' Node I can see named tanks that begin with KI-###:

http://imgur.com/C8SuwCZ,9hhEB97,EXOasgJ#0

But they don't appear in the VAB:

http://imgur.com/C8SuwCZ,9hhEB97,EXOasgJ#1

Here's my tech.cfg:

http://imgur.com/C8SuwCZ,9hhEB97,EXOasgJ#2

[NathanKell]

Ok, so the problem goes deeper than I thought. Dang. Those Conics really need to get added to the free node.

Lemme poke MedievalNerd and/or try to think of a fix.

EDIT: Have you considered, y'know, *using* them Oscar-Bs? Back in my day all we had in 0.625m was Oscar-Bs, and we liked it!

Make a sounding rocket with about 10-12 Oscar-Bs (or less?) and a small engine, get some science, unlock node.

Edited April 17, 2014 by NathanKell

[MedievalNerd]

Ok,

Everyone, at the same time... PANIC!

No, no. I just had a micro chat with Nathan, and he's got some really good points. Whatever is ready for RPL by the end of this weekend, I'll release. And we'll have hotfixes.

Nathan commands it! It shall be done! (He's not that insisting, I'm totally over dramatizing. )

So don't drive yourselves insane with bandaid fixes, we'll have something more feasible to work with very, very soon!

First sane week I've had in a long time, celebrating with an RPL release sounds like a plan!

Speak soon,

[Guest]

Ok,

Everyone, at the same time... PANIC!

No, no. I just had a micro chat with Nathan, and he's got some really good points. Whatever is ready for RPL by the end of this weekend, I'll release. And we'll have hotfixes.

Nathan commands it! It shall be done! (He's not that insisting, I'm totally over dramatizing. )

So don't drive yourselves insane with bandaid fixes, we'll have something more feasible to work with very, very soon!

First sane week I've had in a long time, celebrating with an RPL release sounds like a plan!

Speak soon,

Awesome! thank you

It would be nice to have 2 small separate "life support" files linked for RPL, one for ECLSS (with the real fuels file) and one for TAC (with TACs RO file) i had a few odd issues when i switched to TAC with FASA and a few other mods pods (stuff like having 8000+ oxygen and it effecting masses) that were a pain.

The sciencedefs for FASA, interstellar and AIES that didnt fit the "no grinding" mindset were fairly easy to find/edit, but i can send you them if you would like.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Guest

[NathanKell]

Aazard: Yes, the manifest for the bundler defaults to RPL/RO+RftS/RSS etc. I *think* it has RedAV8R's pack added; if not, give a holler on the thread. (I don't use the bundler, I just approve of it )

Yeah, we tried to update the OP into such a guide but it's a bit outdated; an update would be great.

As to the pack: see the RO thread.

MedievalNerd: errr, yeah. Anyway, do think you're making the right call and as always happy to help out.

[burningcrow]

Awesome news MedievalNerd! This is the only way I like to play KSP anymore. I spent a whole day yesterday trying to get one thing to work as you can see in earlier posts. Right now I am using Procedural Parts instead of Stretchy SRB. So I am guessing the next RPL will have that in mind since SSRB is moving into PP from now on? So far it is working out good with PP. Thanks for the awesome mod.

[MedievalNerd]

Awesome news MedievalNerd! This is the only way I like to play KSP anymore. I spent a whole day yesterday trying to get one thing to work as you can see in earlier posts. Right now I am using Procedural Parts instead of Stretchy SRB. So I am guessing the next RPL will have that in mind since SSRB is moving into PP from now on? So far it is working out good with PP. Thanks for the awesome mod.

I'm planning to have a call with Nathan so he can bring me up to speed on the transition from stretchy to PP. I definitely don't want to mess that up. (given that it's a big game breaker right now)

As I said though, MS19 will surely have a healthy dose of hotfixes. Some on the tree, some in files. Tree hotfixes cannot carry over to new games (unless you playing with TreeEdit), so be mindful of starting epic games early on!

[tomato3017]

Tree hotfixes cannot carry over to new games (unless you playing with TreeEdit), so be mindful of starting epic games early on!

Can't you just offer the tree.cfg file for people to replace it with?

[Doc_Ruby]

Ok, so the problem goes deeper than I thought. Dang. Those Conics really need to get added to the free node.

Lemme poke MedievalNerd and/or try to think of a fix.

EDIT: Have you considered, y'know, *using* them Oscar-Bs? Back in my day all we had in 0.625m was Oscar-Bs, and we liked it!

Make a sounding rocket with about 10-12 Oscar-Bs (or less?) and a small engine, get some science, unlock node.

Yup, I actually did exactly that. Then my spaghetti monster wasn't performing very well under time compression so I went back and used the R3 boosters.

You can actually complete both of the putnik experiments using nothing but the R3 booster combination, a parachute, and a couple fin's added for good measure. Use the R3 main booster to reach altitude and the upper booster to slow re-entry (It burns off about 1000 m/s of speed). Heat shield isn't even necessary with this configuration.

After unlocking a few nodes I was running into an issue with a lack of engine gimbaling. FAR really likes to throw my rockets retrograde during gravity turns. I noticed I forgot to place the ExsurgentEngineering.dll into the game which I've just discovered adds gimbals to a lot of the engines . That should make things a lot easier.

You guys have put a lot of work into this so far and I'm loving it. Keep up the awesome work!

[MedievalNerd]

Can't you just offer the tree.cfg file for people to replace it with?

Sure, but depending on the movement of some parts & nodes results may vary!

[SlimeCrusher]

So now im stuck (Im crap at carrer mode... I know...), i made a replica (Not exact) of the R1 with a small probe on top that had some Graviolis, got into the problem that, first, i barely collect enough science, getting into orbit is a problem without gimbaling and with RSS, had to use RCS but that's barely enough to turn, but i got into orbit, just before my connection went off, did an orbit, then came back online and i did all the science i could, i noticed that those solar panels (The first ones you get) are JUST enough to get the power hovering, not increasing, neither decreasing, so it just died before transmiting my last bit of science. Mission (kind of) success! But now, what do i do? If i could barely get into orbit, how im i going to go the Mun, or even get into High Above Earth? Im pretty much stuck now, all that's left to do is fly planes to the water, shores, and other biomes (My space center is at Baikonur, so it will be quite a long flight for something like 10 science...).

I may just send some comms satellites to send a mission to the Mun, but i just wanted to ask

[MedievalNerd]

So now im stuck (Im crap at carrer mode... I know...), i made a replica (Not exact) of the R1 with a small probe on top that had some Graviolis, got into the problem that, first, i barely collect enough science, getting into orbit is a problem without gimbaling and with RSS, had to use RCS but that's barely enough to turn, but i got into orbit, just before my connection went off, did an orbit, then came back online and i did all the science i could, i noticed that those solar panels (The first ones you get) are JUST enough to get the power hovering, not increasing, neither decreasing, so it just died before transmiting my last bit of science. Mission (kind of) success! But now, what do i do? If i could barely get into orbit, how im i going to go the Mun, or even get into High Above Earth? Im pretty much stuck now, all that's left to do is fly planes to the water, shores, and other biomes (My space center is at Baikonur, so it will be quite a long flight for something like 10 science...).

I may just send some comms satellites to send a mission to the Mun, but i just wanted to ask

With the new experiments this won't be as much of an issue. There will be more missions for earth to begin with. I really do not want people making planes and grinding for science. It's the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish. But the state of the last release is still very experimental, this next one will be one step closer to be in a more usable form.

See these alpha versions as test builds more than anything. We'll see how complete I can make MS19 before the end of the weekend. But in the meantime don't expect to be able to reach the end of the tree. For me, Beta will be once all the features are implemented (perhaps not working that well, but there nonetheless). Each alpha should bring 1 new feature/experiment type as we move forward to Beta. (Hotfixes aside)

EDIT: I'll try to publish a development video this weekend, explaining the broad lines of RPL. Where it's at now, what I'm going to be working on next. Etc. Hopefully that will answer a lot of questions. I'm not video editor or anything, so don't expect to be razzle dazzled by a snazzy intro or interesting things to look at.

EDIT 2: OK, so 0.23.5 didn't do too much damage to MS19 Dev tree. The only damage was of my own doing. I hadn't loaded all the mods and saved the changes I made. Which means the few mods which weren't present are now scattered to the four minds! Oh noes! lol, but yeah. I have all the mods installed the game holds firm. I did read that some mods aren't entirely 0.23.5 compatible so I'll have to look into any workarounds peopel have been doing and what not. But at least all the parts will be there.

Edited April 18, 2014 by MedievalNerd

[Guest]

hi Medieval Nerd,

Just for all our information are there any mods NOT listed in the OP that have support in part placement of MS19 tech tree?

I want to clean up my GameData folder of any parts that would be misplaced/missing in your parts placement setup, then re-add any that become supported down the road (mostly is stuff like soviet engine pack, AJE jet engine mod, and BT engines Merlins/Scramjets included in tree at the moment, i dont want to have a "non-typical" selections of parts for my MS19 play through... sadly i developed a small addiction to B9 and Fustek )

I also have a small concern that the AJE realistic jet engine mod might change basic/turbo jet engine placement, on the note of jets.. are SSTO's a possibility with the parts we have access to in RPL MS19 tech tree, if they are even possible in RO fixed RSS at all?

Thanks alot for all the efforts!

Edited April 18, 2014 by Guest

[NathanKell]

SlimeCrusher: sounds like you need to send up more sounding rockets. Note that you *can* get into high space from a sounding rocket, if you had enough dV to get into orbit. What do you mean no gimballing? Did you download the gimbal plugin RftSEngines requires?

What parts do you have available?

Aazard: AJE should not affect placement. The only exception are the new parts it adds. You can make SSTOs in RO, it's just quite difficult (although not as difficult as real life!)

[MedievalNerd]

SlimeCrusher: sounds like you need to send up more sounding rockets. Note that you *can* get into high space from a sounding rocket, if you had enough dV to get into orbit. What do you mean no gimballing? Did you download the gimbal plugin RftSEngines requires?

What parts do you have available?

Aazard: AJE should not affect placement. The only exception are the new parts it adds. You can make SSTOs in RO, it's just quite difficult (although not as difficult as real life!)

Oi! Master Nathan!

Can you send me your latest RFTS excel sheet please! Hit me up on steam or wtvr.

[MedievalNerd]

hi Medieval Nerd,

Just for all our information are there any mods NOT listed in the OP that have support in part placement of MS19 tech tree?

I want to clean up my GameData folder of any parts that would be misplaced/missing in your parts placement setup, then re-add any that become supported down the road (mostly is stuff like soviet engine pack, AJE jet engine mod, and BT engines Merlins/Scramjets included in tree at the moment, i dont want to have a "non-typical" selections of parts for my MS19 play through... sadly i developed a small addiction to B9 and Fustek )

I also have a small concern that the AJE realistic jet engine mod might change basic/turbo jet engine placement, on the note of jets.. are SSTO's a possibility with the parts we have access to in RPL MS19 tech tree, if they are even possible in RO fixed RSS at all?

Thanks alot for all the efforts!

Here is what I have installed:

Kethane Pack

Extraplanetary Launchpads

Mission Controller Extended

Real Fuels

Realism Overhaul (RO)

Real Solar System

Procedural Parts & Strechy SRB (Until PP is stable)

Deadly Re-Entry

ECLSS & TAC Life Support (Both supported but only pick one)

Ferram Aerospace Mod

Joint Reinforcement

Remote Tech 2

Procedural Fairings

Kerbal Attachment System (EVA)

Infernal Robotics

Lazor System

Lazor Cam

KSPI

MechJeb2

FASA

Nova Punch

KW Rocketry

AIES Aerospace

Soviet Engines <--- New

Edited April 18, 2014 by MedievalNerd

[Guest]

Thanks for reply,

Will all AIES probes be in use? I have noticed some dont seem to be RO fixed (so i had deleted them), should i add them back?

We should have both PP AND Stretchy tanks, or one or the other (sorry to need clarification on this)?

nice to see the soviet engines on list!

Thanks for answering my question with a list, makes it easy to sort out my GameData folder.

Looking forwards to release, great work!

[MedievalNerd]

Thanks for reply,

Will all AIES probes be in use? I have noticed some dont seem to be RO fixed (so i had deleted them), should i add them back?

We should have both PP AND Stretchy tanks, or one or the other (sorry to need clarification on this)?

nice to see the soviet engines on list!

Thanks for answering my question with a list, makes it easy to sort out my GameData folder.

Looking forwards to release, great work!

I'd stick with Stretchy until we know PP is stable enough. I haven't experimented with it, but I'm adding it for the parts and what not. So that when it's ready, or if you rather use it. The tree will already be set for it. (optional)

Note sure about the probes, they all need RO passes if I'm not mistaken.

[SlimeCrusher]

Soviet Engines <--- New

Hell yes!

SlimeCrusher: sounds like you need to send up more sounding rockets. Note that you *can* get into high space from a sounding rocket, if you had enough dV to get into orbit. What do you mean no gimballing? Did you download the gimbal plugin RftSEngines requires?

What parts do you have available?

Umm really, i haven't tried to get high space WITH the "new" R1A, but it may be doable, as i had more than enough to get into orbit, i was using the... Howeveriscalled 200-something thrust British engine thing on both, the boosters and the middle tank, and i had no idea i had to install that gimbal plugin, i'll give that a go, thanks!

Edit: Ooooh ok, i didn't saw that i needed ExsurgentEngineering.dll, i'll try tomorrow, thanks for telling me!

Edited April 19, 2014 by SlimeCrusher

[MedievalNerd]

Hell yes!

But they don't have tech levels though. So whenever they were meant to appear, they'll be in that relevant node. But won't upgrade over time (as the other RFTS engines do.)

[SlimeCrusher]

But they don't have tech levels though. So whenever they were meant to appear, they'll be in that relevant node. But won't upgrade over time (as the other RFTS engines do.)

I sometimes even forget to upgrade the engines, so yea

(And also forget to put fuel inside my tanks sometimes...

Mission control: 3... 2... 1... All engines running!... *Clamps decouple* *Explosions*

Bob: ... We didn't have any fuel, right?... Atleast we have the parach1GJA!"( -COMMUNICATION LOST-...

And that is what happens every time i forget to fuel my tanks)

Edited April 19, 2014 by SlimeCrusher

[MedievalNerd]

I sometimes even forget to upgrade the engines, so yea

(And also forget to put fuel inside my tanks sometimes...

Mission control: 3... 2... 1... All engines running!... *Clamps decouple* *Explosions*

Bob: ... We didn't have any fuel, right?... Atleast we have the parach1GJA!"( -COMMUNICATION LOST-...

And that is what happens every time i forget to fuel my tanks)

Same here my friend. I wouldn't want to know how many times my engines did a little pouf and the whole rocket came tumbling down... Oh wrong fuel, no fuel, etc. Or when I was testing out RT2, no antenna. That was a killer!

EDIT: Day 2 of tree reshuffling. The only thing I can say is. So many parts...

Edited April 19, 2014 by MedievalNerd

[Guest]

Same here my friend. I wouldn't want to know how many times my engines did a little pouf and the whole rocket came tumbling down... Oh wrong fuel, no fuel, etc. Or when I was testing out RT2, no antenna. That was a killer!

EDIT: Day 2 of tree reshuffling. The only thing I can say is. So many parts...

Not to bother you as you work on tree, but will we have all included pods (from FASA. AIES, Novapunch, ect) in techtree, or only select ones? I guess i could wait for release to see, but i'm fairly excited!

Thanks for putting all the effort in!

[dlrk]

Looking forward to the next release myself! Will it be save-compatible by any chance?