[WIP][TechTree @ 0.23.5] - [MS19e] - Realistic Progression LITE

[NathanKell]

BrickedKeyboard, I'm interested to learn the game is unplayable. It certainly is playable for me, and the dozens of other people who've posted their successes and enjoyments with it. Are we confused?

Have you looked at Mission Controller? It's sitting right there in my sig, and is an economy system. Or KSP Story Missions, that's also worth a look. If you want something more like BARIS, per the ideas you're mentioning, I'd love to see it and highly encourage you to make it!

Aazard: Two things you can do. One, give Mission Control a really big range in RT2 settings. That will only work when KSC is in line of sight though. Second, adding a bunch of Gigantors (they're really light!) should power a large dish.

[Guest]

I'd love to add "a bunch of Gigantors" but i have 31 science points to use (& i have used the thermometer, seismic, pressure, goo "radiometer", magnetosphere probe, M38 probe core, crew reports, eva's, surface samples, atmosphere nose cap and gravity meter in all of kerbins biomes on surface/water, flying, high atmosphere, near/high space already) and only the 2nd level of solar panels (the tier with the 1st "stack" battery). I'm worried that if i cant do all science equip, M38 probe and QBE mk2 probe in low/high mun space and atleast 1 mun biome & return it/transmit it i wont be able to get the 1000pt rocket tier unlocked, AND i dont really want to "cheat" by altering the KSC mission controls comms range.

An example of a Eve/Duna capable comms sat on a launcher that can get it to a geosynchronous orbit using tier 2 solar panels/rockets/SRB's would be VERY HELPFUL.. also will "waste heat" effect a simple comms sat (as i have no radiators yet)? ...sorry to always ask for examples, but i could REALLY use some tailored to RSS this RPL tech tree

[NathanKell]

Ah, gotcha. Well, try this. Put lots of batteries on, and some solar cells. Then set up your antenna toggle to be in an action group, and use flight computer with delay to queue up the toggling of that action group. Then you can toggle the antenna shut and the FC will open it again after the delay, saving power.

It's not cheating to alter the comm range: it's much easier IRL to build gigantic dishes on the earth's surface than to put much smaller dishes into space. If you want to feel like you're not cheating, dock yourself a few science points in exchange.

[BrickedKeyboard]

BrickedKeyboard, I'm interested to learn the game is unplayable. It certainly is playable for me, and the dozens of other people who've posted their successes and enjoyments with it. Are we confused?

Have you looked at Mission Controller? It's sitting right there in my sig, and is an economy system. Or KSP Story Missions, that's also worth a look. If you want something more like BARIS, per the ideas you're mentioning, I'd love to see it and highly encourage you to make it!

Aazard: Two things you can do. One, give Mission Control a really big range in RT2 settings. That will only work when KSC is in line of sight though. Second, adding a bunch of Gigantors (they're really light!) should power a large dish.

There's one or two people posting here who have gotten anywhere. And, the lack of auto-tech applying is just extremely irritating, because you have to remember to adjust tech level with every engine you place on every spacecraft you design, and then to adjust it again once you get an upgrade.

Also, there are a great many bugs and glitches.

One of those bugs is that the Stayputnik Mark 1 still says "not calibrated for these conditions" instead of saying what the correct conditions are. I'm not certain what I am doing wrong here. I deleted every single folder used by the V18b mini mod pack and the bug persists.

[MedievalNerd]

There's one or two people posting here who have gotten anywhere. And, the lack of auto-tech applying is just extremely irritating, because you have to remember to adjust tech level with every engine you place on every spacecraft you design, and then to adjust it again once you get an upgrade.

Also, there are a great many bugs and glitches.

One of those bugs is that the Stayputnik Mark 1 still says "not calibrated for these conditions" instead of saying what the correct conditions are. I'm not certain what I am doing wrong here. I deleted every single folder used by the V18b mini mod pack and the bug persists.

You are 100% certain you are using the latest custom experiment plugin provided in V18b? I just tried it and the customized messages work. When I make a new pack, I delete the files associated to the pack. And launch the game using those to make sure it works 'as desired'.

You are quite hard to please, sir.

Cheers,

[Guest]

OMG i just found i can control the M38 probe with out a comms sat network line of sight on the "dark side" (facing away from kerbin side) of the Mun!! Is this met to be this way, as an "early way" to control unmanned probes with a VERY HEAVY probe core with low power charge (16.75 units) BUT a "unique unblockable comms sight line" before we get our 1st parts worth using (sun tracking solar panels, heat radiators, communitron 32 & duna/eve capable dish) to make a geosynchronous comms relay? like to attach it to QBE mk2 or an orbital probe, and then it can still take equipment/science readings (at the expense of tonnage to orbit) far out near the mun or on the far side of kerbin from the KSC, before we have the science points to unlock 1000 point rockets and required 450-700 points worth of needed comms dishs and solar panels

Is the M38 like a VERY EARLY version of remote guidance unit probe cores (RC-L01 & RC-001S probes, although i dont know if they have independant control outside RT2 comms)? And what is the "MIRV computer core" probe for, i have never seen this part and goggling it turns up no results (well none for KSP lol)

Edited November 29, 2013 by Guest

[MedievalNerd]

OMG i just found i can control the M38 probe with out a comms sat network line of sight on the "dark side" (facing away from kerbin side) of the Mun!! Is this met to be this way, as an "early way" to control unmanned probes with a VERY HEAVY probe core with low power charge (16.75 units) BUT a "unique unblockable comms sight line" before we get our 1st parts worth using (sun tracking solar panels, heat radiators, communitron 32 & duna/eve capable dish) to make a geosynchronous comms relay? like to attach it to QBE mk2 or an orbital probe, and then it can still take equipment/science readings (at the expense of tonnage to orbit) before we have the science points to unlock 1000 point rockets and required 450-700 points worth of needed comms dishs and solar panels

Darn, I forgot to add SPU to that one. Oups!

Thanks for spotting that.

[BrickedKeyboard]

You are 100% certain you are using the latest custom experiment plugin provided in V18b? I just tried it and the customized messages work. When I make a new pack, I delete the files associated to the pack. And launch the game using those to make sure it works 'as desired'.

You are quite hard to please, sir.

Cheers,

Yes, absolutely certain. I'll let you get on my computer using teamviewer if you do not believe me. I deleted the folders labeled "deadlyreentry, modularfueltanks, realismoverhaul, realsolarsystem, RPL_tweak_pack, stretchy tanks", and then I copied over all folders from the pack labeled "RPL_MiniRealismPack_V18b"

I even deleted the folder "squad" from gamedata, and replaced it with a fresh one. I also deleted the savegame, and started a fresh one.

No matter what I try, the result is the same. I've followed your excel spreadsheet to the letter.

This is exactly why I have been requesting an all in 1 modpack, or as close as you can get to one.

These problems are not a new thing, Minecraft modding had the same ones. Yes, people tried lengthy lists of instructions, but there are so many ways you can make a tiny subtle mistake and nothing works.

Edited November 29, 2013 by BrickedKeyboard

[MedievalNerd]

Yes, absolutely certain. I'll let you get on my computer using teamviewer if you do not believe me. I deleted the folders labeled "deadlyreentry, modularfueltanks, realismoverhaul, realsolarsystem, RPL_tweak_pack, stretchy tanks", and then I copied over all folders from the pack labeled "RPL_MiniRealismPack_V18b"

I even deleted the folder "squad" from gamedata, and replaced it with a fresh one. I also deleted the savegame, and started a fresh one.

No matter what I try, the result is the same. I've followed your excel spreadsheet to the letter.

This is exactly why I have been requesting an all in 1 modpack, or as close as you can get to one.

These problems are not a new thing, Minecraft modding had the same ones. Yes, people tried lengthy lists of instructions, but there are so many ways you can make a tiny subtle mistake and nothing works.

Could you maybe have the old MN pack? I renamed the pack to RPL at some point in the update. Maybe you have 2 copies of the plugin? Basically it is the plugin that is handling the messages and the custom experiments. The latest version not only tells you which situation the data recorder or experiment is set to, but also says your current situation.

Totally understand you desire for a pack, which is why I MADE ONE. You do realize you are the main reason I created it?

You don't need to share me your PC in teamviewer, I'm quite busy making the impact probes ATM anyway.

Do a search of your KSP game folder and check whether you don't have 2 copies of CustomExperiment.dll. That's the only thing that I can see is wrong here. I'd love to know if other people using 18b are also not getting the custom error messages.

I'll be adding a few more mods to the pack in V19, FAR & ECLSS. I forgot to ask Ferram about KJR, but I'm sure he'll be OK with it. RT2 is a no go.

Cheers,

[BrickedKeyboard]

Yep, that was the problem. Thank-you for helping me fix it.

[MedievalNerd]

Yep, that was the problem. Thank-you for helping me fix it.

Awesome!

My bad for renaming, but I have bad OCD, and that MN_Mission pack or whatever name was driving me mad.

Not many know that this whole thing started off with me wanting to make missions for MCE. And now, all this crazy circus.

Madness.

RANDOM V19 UPDATE!

Impact probes are closer than I thought. Able to trigger the direct awarding of science (without the science module interface) after crashing into the surface. Now to figure out how to check if the SPU is connected... Hmmm...

Edited November 29, 2013 by MedievalNerd

[BrickedKeyboard]

Question : have you made the normal awards for science less, to give your custom experiments more of a purpose? I think that's what is happening, but asking to be certain.

[MedievalNerd]

Question : have you made the normal awards for science less, to give your custom experiments more of a purpose? I think that's what is happening, but asking to be certain.

Nope, what I did is set the basescience to the sciencecap, so you only have to do them once. There is 'stock bug' that a few experiments dont' give out the right amount of science previewed when you perform the experiment. Not sure 'which ones'.

Cheers,

[Guest]

what is the "MIRV computer core" probe for, i have never seen this part and goggling it turns up no results (well none for KSP lol) is it one of the "interstellar mod" computer cores?

Also do normal "permanent" satellites (comms, kethane/ore scanners, small crew/fuel/life support goods transfer stations) need "heat radiators"? if so what do we do for early sats/stations, make them "temporary until over heating" or just made to return to surface??

Edited November 29, 2013 by Guest

[MedievalNerd]

what is the "MIRV computer core" probe for, i have never seen this part and goggling it turns up no results (well none for KSP lol) is it one of the "interstellar mod" computer cores?

Also do normal "permanent" satellites (comms, kethane/ore scanners, small crew/fuel/life support goods transfer stations) need "heat radiators"? if so what do we do for early sats/stations, make them "temporary until over heating" or just made to return to surface??

No, the heating comes from KSPI stuff. (Generators/Reactors)

The MIRV computer is something from FASA. V19 will have a massive cleanup of the probe tech line.

[MedievalNerd]

OH YEAH!

Thanks to ludsoe, Nathan & Ferram, we're getting Impact probes! Just tested it and it works! It even checks if you are still connected via RT2 and won't give you science points if you aren't.

Ferram suggested an amazing idea about impact probes! If you would have a nearby landed probe, with science instruments to 'observe' the impact you could get bonus science points. I'll keep that one for later, but I'll give it a stab!

So now that Impact probes are working. (Still need to implement them, I just have a proof of concept code for now) We'll move towards the picture & video experiments. And lastly, the SCANsat experiments. Not sure how far i'll go for V19, but it's all within reach just to plow through the code.

This is by far the best Frankenstein piece of code I've ever created.

[BrickedKeyboard]

Anyone have a screenshot of what a "lifting capsule" looks like? I seem to be dying from G-force damage. Do I have to slow down before reentry, or can I somehow create capsule lift? Yes, I have the latest version of FAR installed.

[ferram4]

Like this:

You need to place the mass of the capsule offset by a little bit to make it work. The best way to do this is to add something like this to your a config file for ModuleManager to pick up:

@PART[Mark1-2Pod]
{
	CoMOffset = 0, 0, 0.1
}

Of course, now you have an unbalanced pod, so you need to counterbalance the service module or it will cartwheel in space.

[t3hnoob]

does the lite or full tech tree have support for b9 aerospace?

[MedievalNerd]

does the lite or full tech tree have support for b9 aerospace?

Lite is the only one is a playable state and no, it does not support B9. (It'll have the nodes they have been assigned to by default, so will have some weird locations most likely)

[BrickedKeyboard]

Like this:

You need to place the mass of the capsule offset by a little bit to make it work. The best way to do this is to add something like this to your a config file for ModuleManager to pick up:

@PART[Mark1-2Pod]
{
	CoMOffset = 0, 0, 0.1
}

Of course, now you have an unbalanced pod, so you need to counterbalance the service module or it will cartwheel in space.

Uggh. Your mod shouldn't require cheating to model lift correctly for capsules. I don't suppose you could make the capsules apply lift correctly in future versions of FAR...

[Ralathon]

Uggh. Your mod shouldn't require cheating to model lift correctly for capsules. I don't suppose you could make the capsules apply lift correctly in future versions of FAR...

Capsules don't have lift if they are axisymmetrical along the flow of air... Both in real life and FAR. You need to offset the mass to make sure it stabilizes at an angle compared to the airflow.

In Real Life they do this by putting all the heavy stuff on one side of the capsule, yet we can't adjust capsule interiors yet in KSP. So you either need to adjust it in the config or clip something heavy on one side as ballast.

Learn aerodynamics before attacking mods on being unrealistic.

[CheaterEater]

I've been having a persistent issue with TreeEdit. I can load and modify trees just fine and save them. They will persist for a while without issue. However, soon the tree.cfg file is rendered completely blank and the tree is reverted to default. I can normally reload it without issue but it's annoying enough that I've stopped playing with it. It seems to happen most often when I'm transmitting science but I haven't pinned down a cause yet. Any idea if this is a problem with TreeEdit or another mod?

[Jobin]

I'm getting a lot of lag with RT2 (I think that's the problem). I set up a constellation of 4 comsats in elliptical orbits, 1 GEO, 2 high polar that gives almost total coverage out to Duna but now the framerate drops to around 15 constantly. Love the mod(s) but the framerate is just unbearable for me. Anyone have any solution other than "come up with a better constellation"? Lowered every setting to the minimum with no effect which makes me think it's a physics/processor issue. 64-bit support soon hopefully ;_;

[MedievalNerd]

I'm getting a lot of lag with RT2 (I think that's the problem). I set up a constellation of 4 comsats in elliptical orbits, 1 GEO, 2 high polar that gives almost total coverage out to Duna but now the framerate drops to around 15 constantly. Love the mod(s) but the framerate is just unbearable for me. Anyone have any solution other than "come up with a better constellation"? Lowered every setting to the minimum with no effect which makes me think it's a physics/processor issue. 64-bit support soon hopefully ;_;

Are you also using ECLSS?