[WIP][TechTree @ 0.23.5] - [MS19e] - Realistic Progression LITE

[Guest]

This was my first time trying the mod and I started a new career mode but I had no capsules or anything to launch from to accumulate any science at the start. I am not sure if I am missing anything but I do have all the essentials besides life support. I do have KW and AIES.

Edit: Sorry, I saw that when you click the first node it says to unlock the node above it.

life support is among the most important of all

[m_robber]

Hey all

Just wanted some advice on the M18 to M19 update. My last game was spoiled by the Remotetech craft-duplication bug, so I'm starting a fresh one. Would it be best to wait for M19, or can I start an M18 game and change tech trees partway through?

Also, which Life support mod do you guys consider to be best for RO? I was using TAC, tried a sandbox test with the other one - have to admit I'm leaning towards going back to TAC, as it seems better executed.

[MedievalNerd]

Hey all

Just wanted some advice on the M18 to M19 update. My last game was spoiled by the Remotetech craft-duplication bug, so I'm starting a fresh one. Would it be best to wait for M19, or can I start an M18 game and change tech trees partway through?

Also, which Life support mod do you guys consider to be best for RO? I was using TAC, tried a sandbox test with the other one - have to admit I'm leaning towards going back to TAC, as it seems better executed.

Hi m_robber!

You can only load a tech tree once with Tree Loader, as such, it would be best to wait for MS19 to start a new campaign with RPL.

As for life support, I lean towards ECLSS, since it also tracks power consumption, giving it a extra purpose for unmanned missions. (Tracking power con of inactive crafts)

In the end I'm not going to enforce either, I'll put the parts for TAC in the tree as well. It's up to you guys to decide which ones you want to use.

[m_robber]

Thanks for the tips Medieval! I didn't know ECLSS had that advantage - I'll stick with it then. Really looking forward to the update - your tech tree and the whole realism package are brilliant.

[Scripto23]

Thanks for the tips Medieval! I didn't know ECLSS had that advantage - I'll stick with it then.

If you're using ECLSS is the real solar system make sure you grab NathanKell's config for it (also can be found in the second post of the Realism Overhaul thread).

[m_robber]

If you're using ECLSS is the real solar system make sure you grab NathanKell's config for it (also can be found in the second post of the Realism Overhaul thread).

Thanks for that! Does it go in the ECLSS folder or...?

[Scripto23]

I believe it can go anywhere, but I put mine in the ECLSS folder.

[MedievalNerd]

I believe it can go anywhere, but I put mine in the ECLSS folder.

Is that the powercurve fix for solar panels?

[gleedadswell]

As for life support, I lean towards ECLSS, since it also tracks power consumption, giving it a extra purpose for unmanned missions. (Tracking power con of inactive crafts)

It tracks power consumption of inactive craft? Ooooo...I may have to switch from TAC next time I start a game. I'm enjoying this tech tree mod enough that it is a certainty I'll start a new game with it at some point.

But this brings up an issue that I'm running into: the power demands of antennas in the RemoteTech 2 mod. The power demands seem much too high and mean that communication satellites based on real satellites don't work. This may be an issue to take up on the RemoteTech thread rather than here, but it is partly a result of which photoelectrics you have early in (just about any) tech tree. I'll post it to both.

For example, the antennas which seem like logical choices for the main antenna on an early, low-orbit comm sats (omnidirectional ones with a few thousand km range) requires power to the tune of 0.1-0.2 units per second. The only photoelectric panel available at the start is the ST1 which generates 1.1 units/min. So to power your antenna you need around 10 panels facing the sun. Fitting this much on a single satellite makes for a big satellite. The smallest I've managed able to power an antenna like this had a fueled mass of 5.4 t (admittedly, I could have built it with empty fuel tanks, but as long as it has to be this big I figure it might as well supply a good portion of its own delta v). To make a higher orbit satellite with a dish (say the Comms DTS-M1) the smallest satellite I've managed is 6.1 t and a ridiculous part count of 405 because of all the panels. I'm not convinced this even has enough power (I'm still getting it into orbit).

For comparison, early comm sats like Syncom and Intelsat had fueled masses under 100 kg. They only used surface mounted photoelectric panels, like what the early game panels are trying to model. So it would be good for realism if the power demands were such that we could build satellites in this size range and have them work.

Now of course, if you're not using ECLSS, you can rely on the power not draining when you aren't looking at the satellite, but this feels like cheating and it doesn't solve the problem of how you maneuver the satellite into place without constantly running the batteries dead.

Anyway, like I said this probably more an issue for the RemoteTech thread.

[NathanKell]

In the same place where you set your range multiplier (Remotetech2_settings.cfg) also change the consumption multiplier to like 0.1 or 0.05; that will give a more realistic power draw.

[bulletrhli]

life support is among the most important of all

But not required by my books I did eventually end up adding it but it isn't something I will probably keep.

[metaphor]

Are the KI-9000 Super Stretchable Fuel Tanks supposed to only have a max width of 2.5 m, or is there some node later in the tech tree that increases their maximum size? I can make them thinner but not thicker than 2.5 m.

[NathanKell]

Each Rocketry node will increase their max allowable size.

[metaphor]

Each Rocketry node will increase their max allowable size.

That's cool. I just thought it was a little odd since the large 25 MN engine in the 4th tier of rocketry is too big for a 5m tank (too wide, and it would need a 5 x 50 m tank above it to have a starting TWR of less than 2). So it's basically unusable until a later node when the super-stretchy tank can be stretched to about 8m wide or more.

[Ratzap]

I decided to give this a shot today but I'm having some hassle after getting it all installed in a fresh GameData. I built a small simple craft, it ignites and lanches but after a few dozen seconds the engine shuts off. Fuel is available, charge is ok, fuel slow was stable and it was just powering upwards - of course it won't reignite because it only has a start counter of 1. I took the igniter mod out and it does the same thing but stutters on and off rapidly instead.

Have I missed a mod or setup step?

[NathanKell]

Sounds like the nodes for the diameters (in stretchy/Parts/tech.cfg) should be MM patched to fit better with RPL. I think we snuck that feature in under MedievalNerd's nose, but it'll be fully supported (and mesh better) in MS19.

For now, just edit tech.cfg as you see fit.

[metaphor]

Sounds like the nodes for the diameters (in stretchy/Parts/tech.cfg) should be MM patched to fit better with RPL. I think we snuck that feature in under MedievalNerd's nose, but it'll be fully supported (and mesh better) in MS19.

For now, just edit tech.cfg as you see fit.

Got it, thanks.

[Ratzap]

I decided to give this a shot today but I'm having some hassle after getting it all installed in a fresh GameData. I built a small simple craft, it ignites and launches but after a few dozen seconds the engine shuts off. Fuel is available, charge is ok, fuel slow was stable and it was just powering upwards - of course it won't reignite because it only has a start counter of 1. I took the igniter mod out and it does the same thing but stutters on and off rapidly instead.

Have I missed a mod or setup step?

I tried a launch without a MJ case attached and it worked. Is there something with MJ that switches engines off? Thinking about it, it has my copied MJ config which would try to restrict to 25ms/2 but the utilities aren't unlocked yet. I'll get rid of the old config and see if that works.

Edit: Yes, it was the mechjeb config. I had a 25ms/2 limit set in utilities and even though that module was not yet unlocked it was shutting the engine off

Edited January 24, 2014 by Ratzap

[MedievalNerd]

Sounds like the nodes for the diameters (in stretchy/Parts/tech.cfg) should be MM patched to fit better with RPL. I think we snuck that feature in under MedievalNerd's nose, but it'll be fully supported (and mesh better) in MS19.

For now, just edit tech.cfg as you see fit.

As I said before, you sneaky devils the lot of you!

<3

Another crazy week in QA pre-production land! But tomorrow I intend to spend a good amount of the day working on MS19. I can't wait to bring it to you!!!

And.. uhm, I can't wait to play it myself. So you people don't think I'm secretly enjoying it behind the scenes.

Edited January 25, 2014 by MedievalNerd

[Varek_Raith]

So you people don't think I'm secretly enjoying it behind the scenes.

I KNEW IT!

[Agathorn]

I decided to give this a shot today but I'm having some hassle after getting it all installed in a fresh GameData. I built a small simple craft, it ignites and lanches but after a few dozen seconds the engine shuts off. Fuel is available, charge is ok, fuel slow was stable and it was just powering upwards - of course it won't reignite because it only has a start counter of 1. I took the igniter mod out and it does the same thing but stutters on and off rapidly instead.

Have I missed a mod or setup step?

Did you put an active antenna on it? I did the same thing when I first started down this road. While attached to the launch clamps you have a hardwire to mission control, but once you launch if you have no active antenna, then you will lose control of the craft (RemoteTech) and the engines will shut down.

[gleedadswell]

Another crazy week in QA pre-production land! But tomorrow I intend to spend a good amount of the day working on MS19. I can't wait to bring it to you!!!

Ah, you're having a busy time. I tried to PM you (about the aircraft tech nodes again) and your box was full. PM me when you've freed up some space and I should be able to send you more testing info. on the RC chutes.

Cheers!

[MedievalNerd]

Ah, you're having a busy time. I tried to PM you (about the aircraft tech nodes again) and your box was full. PM me when you've freed up some space and I should be able to send you more testing info. on the RC chutes.

Cheers!

That thing fills up fast!

Go ahead now, but I did receive your last message. I hope I answered it? If not, sorry about that!

[whorlwind]

I really enjoy this mod so far, thanks for working on it. Just wanted to ask, so far the science beyond the normal that you've added is low and high kerbin samples/readings, duna and eve high fly-bys readings, and mun orbit/landing samples/readings, am I missing anything?

Also, while I fixed it for myself, would it be possible to add mechjeb modules to the list of things to place into the tech tree? I like using its maneuver planner in particular.

Thanks again, looking forward to seeing the new version!

[MedievalNerd]

I really enjoy this mod so far, thanks for working on it. Just wanted to ask, so far the science beyond the normal that you've added is low and high kerbin samples/readings, duna and eve high fly-bys readings, and mun orbit/landing samples/readings, am I missing anything?

Also, while I fixed it for myself, would it be possible to add mechjeb modules to the list of things to place into the tech tree? I like using its maneuver planner in particular.

Thanks again, looking forward to seeing the new version!

Hi whorlwind,

Nope, those are the ones that were included in the first public release.

Milestone 19 brings a complete overhaul of the early unmanned experiments with quasi-historical following of their launch dates and scientific accomplishments. For flavor, experiments have been renamed to match these achievements. I redid them up until Vanguard, so the follow ups will be 'Kerbal' versions of their historical counterparts. Until either someone makes those probes, or I find the time and decided to play resize madness to make one that looks close to it.

As for Mechjeb, yes, that's indeed in the plans. But to not delay MS19, I'll go ahead and release it without that tweak. But I'll do a hotfix for it. If you wouldn't mind, how exactly do you go about of setting MJ's additional features within the tech tree? Is it a file you modify in the MJ folders? I'm sure the info is out there, but i'm swiming in plugin land of my own. So any help/tips would be awesome!

Thank you, and everyone else, for trying this out! I hope the next release will be a plesant first step towards a more complete experience! But again, forewarning, up until I'm able to create enough custom experiments to potentially have missions for all bodies, and soon-ish, also have biome specific ones, one must be mindful to at least unlock some 'stock or mod' regular modules to make sure you can still get some science when you run out of RPL experiments.

For those braves ones who've peeked at my experiment files, or the plugin itself. I would be more than happy to accept submission of completed missions! I'd suggest focusing on Moon, Venus & Mars. As those are the ones that need the most attention for now. Then we can move towards Mercury, Jupiter(and it's moons). I'll skip adding manned experiments to this release, but may add them as a hotfix as well. (MS19 will be like tempered steel with all those hot fixes... ok it's not that funny...)

I've spent the day finalizing the plugin, I think the chemical release module is up to spec. Just need to tweak and rename a few methods so that it makes more sense, then I'm jumping back into MM files. To finish it off by a glorious mega sweep of the tech tree, followed by a long session of reading all the involved mods to see if I didn't miss anything in my never ending update for MS19. Sadly NathanKell is away for the day, so hopefully I can snag him tonight to pry all this sweet information from him.

I still intend to release development videos and/or tutorial videos showcasing the functionality of the tech tree and the Experiment plugin I've built. So for those who hate my walls of text, and don't mind my ramblings, then you'll be able to get an update here and there on the work in progress and future plans. In the meantime, I had started a series of very casual 10 minute reviews of old DOS games, if you go on Youtube and check The Medieval Nerd, you should find some lightly entertaining material. Disclaimer, all those are pure adlib, and zero prep, so there are extensive sessions of rambling going on. Don't expect a well throught out review.

Enough of that! Milestone 19 is coming, I can feel it! Stay tuned!

Edited January 25, 2014 by MedievalNerd