[WIP][TechTree @ 0.23.5] - [MS19e] - Realistic Progression LITE

[tryder]

Hello

I have been trying to install all the mods listed and the minipack and all is up to date but i never get it to work.

Ive been spending 3 days trying to install the mods / tech tree and it would be great if i just could get an complete gamedata folder in a dl.

Looks like a great mod/ modpack but would be greater to play with the mod pack

[m_robber]

Hey Medieval.

I have a request, if it's not too much trouble. Could we get a layout for the tech tree, as in which parts belong to which nodes? I have been greatly enjoying v.18, but sometimes I get the feeling that some parts aren't where they're supposed to be (such as fairings being all over the place etc.). Also, I sometimes struggle with gathering enough science to unlock the nodes, I'd also like to know what precisely which parts are where, so I can focus on getting them.

Thanks again for all the hard work!

[NathanKell]

tryder: You've been not following the directions, and trying to install a pack for KSP 0.22 on KSP 0.23.

So.

Start with a *clean* install of KSP.

Next, carefully follow the instructions in the current first post of this thread.

Then see if it works. If not, post.

[gleedadswell]

Hi all,

I *love* playing with this tech tree and a range of "realism enhancement" mods. The extra challenge over and above regular KSP is awesome. I'm using most of the mods suggested in the first post on this thread (all I've left out are FASA, KAS and Lazor, and I've added in procedural fairings).

I'm still pretty early in the tech progression. You really have to claw your way up! There are just a couple of things I've noticed that are mildly aggravating:

1. The stack separators don't seem to be organized in the progression in a logical way. With Starting Technologies, Basic Rocketry and Early Staging you get some very small separators (0.5 and 0.625) and some really big ones (up to 4 m!), and some at 1.25 and 2.5 m. But you have none at 1.0 m, which is a bit of a pain since the A9 engine is 1 m. There are some big stack separators (3 and 4 m) from RealChutes which appear in Early Staging, which is probably a mistake. I imagine this is just a problem with making the tech tree work with every single other mod that a player might conceivably play with. Shouldn't that be easy? ;-)

2. Something is up with the stretchy conic fuel tank. If I play in sandbox mode it is fully stretchable. But in career mode its top and bottom diameters are only adjustable over a very narrow range. Is this intended? Will it get "more stretchy" as my tech increases?

This is a very ambitious mod and I'm amazed at how well it is interfacing with a whole lot of other mods. Awesome work!

Cheers!

[MedievalNerd]

Howdy all,

Had a rough 2nd week back at work, so this weekend was more R&R than KSP. Going to finish the plugin bit during the week, and hopefully do the final sprint on the config file and module manager stuff!

This is probably going to be the longest of all updates. With the plugin "finalized" and experiments settled. It should only be a matter of making small tweaks to the tree, and adding new experiments. Which I'm hoping to do once a week or so, pending some insane KSP update obviously.

Stay tuned,

[Scripto23]

Keep up the good work! Looking forward to it

[asmi]

If I may suggest modifying support for BobCat's real engines - now all of them are in a single node that is far before they were actually developed.

[TheFluffiestThing]

Right, that's it! It's pitchfork time. We were promised a release this weekend

In reality I would like to thank Nathan and Medieval (and all other contributors) for all the time they spend both developing these awesome mods and answering all of our (sometimes repetitive) questions. You guys rock

[MedievalNerd]

Hi all,

I *love* playing with this tech tree and a range of "realism enhancement" mods. The extra challenge over and above regular KSP is awesome. I'm using most of the mods suggested in the first post on this thread (all I've left out are FASA, KAS and Lazor, and I've added in procedural fairings).

I'm still pretty early in the tech progression. You really have to claw your way up! There are just a couple of things I've noticed that are mildly aggravating:

1. The stack separators don't seem to be organized in the progression in a logical way. With Starting Technologies, Basic Rocketry and Early Staging you get some very small separators (0.5 and 0.625) and some really big ones (up to 4 m!), and some at 1.25 and 2.5 m. But you have none at 1.0 m, which is a bit of a pain since the A9 engine is 1 m. There are some big stack separators (3 and 4 m) from RealChutes which appear in Early Staging, which is probably a mistake. I imagine this is just a problem with making the tech tree work with every single other mod that a player might conceivably play with. Shouldn't that be easy? ;-)

2. Something is up with the stretchy conic fuel tank. If I play in sandbox mode it is fully stretchable. But in career mode its top and bottom diameters are only adjustable over a very narrow range. Is this intended? Will it get "more stretchy" as my tech increases?

This is a very ambitious mod and I'm amazed at how well it is interfacing with a whole lot of other mods. Awesome work!

Cheers!

Woo! Thank you!

#1 - Yeah, there has been discussions about how to deal with separators and/or procedural fairings. Considering the resizes, I will make procedural fairings available from the start. Since it technically doesn't give you any edge, since engines are definitely a caveat to anything you want to do regardless of fairings/adapters available.

#2 - Huh? That sounds abnormal indeed. Please go and post this on the Stretchy thread! I'm sure Nathan will have a look.

Things aren't working 'that' smoothly, but I do enjoy your positive comments! And yeah, definitely ambitious, and not to throw myself a pity party, but I GROSSLY underestimated the work I set myself up for with madness of a mod/tree I've been making. lol, and this is the first mod thingy I've ever done. Wee! I'll be so damn happy when I get to play this for real! Let's git'er done!

If I may suggest modifying support for BobCat's real engines - now all of them are in a single node that is far before they were actually developed.

Wait, which engines are you referring to specifically? I don't think I have BobCat's pack in there, yet? Or are we referring to the few extra engines from RftEngines?

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that everytime a mod is updated, or the file changes, I think it seems to reset it's assigned position in the tree. There are a few parts that I'm almost 100% sure that they were placed properly, and since I've been doing some quick MS19 tests here and there, I noticed that the tree has some of it's part "reset". Ugh... By far untangling the parts of a mod is least fun thing to do, so I'm hoping that I'm wrong in a way.

But yeah, I'll do a full, node per node, sweep and try to confirm if each part is it's "intended" position. Although, to the dismay of our aviation enthusiasts, I haven't had the time to either process the suggestions from people, or give aviation a stab. And it's been so long overdue, that I don't want to fiddle with anything else until it's out.

I'm sorry aviation didn't get any love for MS19, but in all honesty, I'm a rocket guy in KSP. So it's not in my priority list, but I won't make it a second class citizen either. Just will not be the first thing to get updated.

[NathanKell]

#2 is intentional. Just like how larger static tanks unlock later, larger diameters for procedural tanks unlock later. You can find the R&Dnodes and maxdiameters in the tech.cfg file in StretchyTanks/Parts.

I heartily second #1--making all pfairing parts available from the start.

[MedievalNerd]

Right, that's it! It's pitchfork time. We were promised a release this weekend

In reality I would like to thank Nathan and Medieval (and all other contributors) for all the time they spend both developing these awesome mods and answering all of our (sometimes repetitive) questions. You guys rock

lol, Damn me and suggesting those pitchforks!

Cheers mate!

#2 is intentional. Just like how larger static tanks unlock later, larger diameters for procedural tanks unlock later. You can find the R&Dnodes and maxdiameters in the tech.cfg file in StretchyTanks/Parts.

I heartily second #1--making all pfairing parts available from the start.

Oh you sneaky devil, you managed to limit width/size with tech nodes!?

If you told me, I didn't notice. Woo!

[Agathorn]

#2 is intentional. Just like how larger static tanks unlock later, larger diameters for procedural tanks unlock later. You can find the R&Dnodes and maxdiameters in the tech.cfg file in StretchyTanks/Parts.

I heartily second #1--making all pfairing parts available from the start.

The issue I noted, when I was playing with this tech tree, was that you unlocked much larger diameter stretchy tanks than you did boosters. I swear, at one point my max booster width was like 1/8th the size of my main tanks and it looked completely wrong.

[NathanKell]

Now, that's actually not unrealistic. Well, maybe not *that* ratio. But they were launching 3m (and could probably have managed much larger, if they'd accepted low performance) liquid rockets, while barely being able to make 1m solids (1959). Basically, the US invested billions into researching large solids (mainly for ICBM use) and it took til the mid 60s to get 3m solids--about the same time as the 10m S-IC core! The Russians didn't even bother that much with solids and stayed with storable hypergolics.

[Agathorn]

Now, that's actually not unrealistic. Well, maybe not *that* ratio. But they were launching 3m (and could probably have managed much larger, if they'd accepted low performance) liquid rockets, while barely being able to make 1m solids (1959). Basically, the US invested billions into researching large solids (mainly for ICBM use) and it took til the mid 60s to get 3m solids--about the same time as the 10m S-IC core! The Russians didn't even bother that much with solids and stayed with storable hypergolics.

Ok that's fair. I just remember it looking so stupid, and the small boosters were so useless, that I just stopped using them.

[NathanKell]

As it stands they're precisely half the width of the max-width liquid tank you can make, I believe. Since you start out only being able to make like a 1m tank (if that!) the solids will be very tiny. :]

Sergeant's casing was only 0.8m and it was the first "big" solid, not in service until the late 50s. At that time Atlas (3m core) was also undergoing testing, and "Big Atlas" (MX-1593) with probably a 4m+ tank and four booster engines (not two) was the original plan.

Edited January 21, 2014 by NathanKell

[Guest]

Not to be "that guy", but, is there a chance when you post the MS19 tech tree layout we could get a node item brake down (as in a list of what parts are in what nodes)? This would help greatly with progression planning, as science points start to get harder to acquire once players have reached the moon (perhaps even harder now with "non-resettable" experiments). If a part by part brake down is a pain a overview/summery would be helpful at least, sorry to make a request as i understand this MS19 update seems to be a handful.

[palker]

WHY cannot somebody make a pack with ALL the required mods and whatever i just a lot of time installing this then finding out something does not work properly then loooking for fix only to find oout that it is broken cause i forgot to install one of the mods even though i downloaded it got lost in all the mods that i had to get and my.

Next i should make effing check list or i will go nuts.

[MedievalNerd]

Not to be "that guy", but, is there a chance when you post the MS19 tech tree layout we could get a node item brake down (as in a list of what parts are in what nodes)? This would help greatly with progression planning, as science points start to get harder to acquire once players have reached the moon (perhaps even harder now with "non-resettable" experiments). If a part by part brake down is a pain a overview/summery would be helpful at least, sorry to make a request as i understand this MS19 update seems to be a handful.

Hi Aazard! I thought I had replied, oupsie! Yes, I can definitely work on a more thorough overview of the tech tree. Although listed 'all' the parts might take a bit of time!

WHY cannot somebody make a pack with ALL the required mods and whatever i just a lot of time installing this then finding out something does not work properly then loooking for fix only to find out that it is broken cause i forgot to install one of the mods even though i downloaded it got lost in all the mods that i had to get and my.

Next i should make effing check list or i will go nuts.

Ok, hi there.

I actually had a checklist initially on the OP. And there was a pack during [0.22], but it was partial. Not all modders agreed to be part of the pack, so there is still some level of Easter egg hunting going on. And no jokes, you have a great point about checklist. I personally have an excel sheet dedicated to KSP. For my mod, and also, just keeping track of all my favorite mods. The list of the mods I use got so long, that I'd sometimes just leave one behind out of pure forgetfulness. Not anymore, excel is your friend!

Won't go over the pros and cons of a pack, but NathanKell will be doing a RealismOverhaul pack. Which might very well contain a good part of the essentials/tweaks. But not 'all' that's for sure.

[Agathorn]

WHY cannot somebody make a pack with ALL the required mods and whatever i just a lot of time installing this then finding out something does not work properly then loooking for fix only to find oout that it is broken cause i forgot to install one of the mods even though i downloaded it got lost in all the mods that i had to get and my.

Next i should make effing check list or i will go nuts.

Because many mod authors don't allow you to package and redistribute their mods as part of another.

[MedievalNerd]

Because many mod authors don't allow you to package and redistribute their mods as part of another.

Yes, and unless everyone is timed, it would be a little troublesome to keep the pack updated. I have trouble to keep up with my own stuff, let alone everyone else's! D:

[gleedadswell]

Woo! Thank you!

You're very welcome!

#2 - Huh? That sounds abnormal indeed. Please go and post this on the Stretchy thread! I'm sure Nathan will have a look.

Looking around on the Stretchy thread it looks like this is normal. Apparently as I develop more along the rocketry tech stream the conical tank will gain in its ability to be stretched. I haven't been able to do that yet (Wow! Getting the research going after the first few flights needs a network of communication sattelites, and getting that network up and running at this tech level is hard!), but once I do I'll post back to let you know whether that is working. Or maybe someone else has seen their stretchy tanks improve with tech progression and can post to verify it.

Things aren't working 'that' smoothly, but I do enjoy your positive comments!

Well, I think any of us who do development of code are sort of amazed when even fairly simple code works. When something as complex as this even half works it is cause for celebration.

[gleedadswell]

Hi again,

Still loving this mod! Just few things I noticed early in the tech tree that seem a bit odd, all to do with the aircraft progression:

1. the earliest aircraft tech node (Supersonic flight) doesn't contain the control elements. Shouldn't those be one of the first aircraft techs? Building any aircraft without them is...challenging.

2. the mk2 fuselage and mk2 to size 1 adaptor are in the first aircraft node but the mk1 fuselage is in the second node (High Altitude Flight). Should that be reversed?

3. the delta wing is in Supersonic Flight and the swept wing is in High Altitude Flight. Historically swept wings preceded delta wings (right?), so should that be reversed?

4. the RealChutes stack chutes of various types are in the Early Staging node, but the drag chutes aren't there (I haven't found where the stack drag chutes are yet). Given that the cone drag chute (not so useful - where do you put it?) is in the start node it probably makes sense to put the stack drag chutes in an early node.

Cheers!

[palker]

After few days of playing with this i have to say this is much better than stock KSP tech three especially the science gathering with specialized experiments is great idea. And with real sized Kerbin it is really great fun and nice challenge to build rockets that can achieve orbit and get to places with only few nodes unlocked.

[MedievalNerd]

Hi again,

Still loving this mod! Just few things I noticed early in the tech tree that seem a bit odd, all to do with the aircraft progression:

1. the earliest aircraft tech node (Supersonic flight) doesn't contain the control elements. Shouldn't those be one of the first aircraft techs? Building any aircraft without them is...challenging.

2. the mk2 fuselage and mk2 to size 1 adaptor are in the first aircraft node but the mk1 fuselage is in the second node (High Altitude Flight). Should that be reversed?

3. the delta wing is in Supersonic Flight and the swept wing is in High Altitude Flight. Historically swept wings preceded delta wings (right?), so should that be reversed?

4. the RealChutes stack chutes of various types are in the Early Staging node, but the drag chutes aren't there (I haven't found where the stack drag chutes are yet). Given that the cone drag chute (not so useful - where do you put it?) is in the start node it probably makes sense to put the stack drag chutes in an early node.

Cheers!

Great points about the aircraft progression. Being not an avid user of them with KSP, some of those part placements were definitely arbitrary. If you wouldn't mind, if you could get Tree Edit, and give me a name of the part along which aircraft node it should be in, then by all means PM it to me. Not the title though, just the name.

Chutes should all be/go in the start nodes. As I mentioned a few times before, i'll do a sweep and try to see if they are all where they are supposed to be. (parts in general) But yeah, I should start making a list of the discrepencies people noticed. Because Tree Edit, may the kerbal gods bless it for the infinite pleasures it allows, but it's not the most user friendly interface when moving specific parts in long lists. The way the interface rescale's itself dynamically based on how many parts are in the 2 columns of the editor, is quite the challenge lol.

After few days of playing with this i have to say this is much better than stock KSP tech three especially the science gathering with specialized experiments is great idea. And with real sized Kerbin it is really great fun and nice challenge to build rockets that can achieve orbit and get to places with only few nodes unlocked.

Thank you! And just as an FYI, MS18 was more the first test into the wild of the plugin I've been building. And since the reception seems generally good, I've switched to making quasi historical replicas of early probes and the missions they accomplished. So MS19 will be much more entertaining in the early stage with more experiments and science to acquire. Obviously we'll balance out payouts/costs as we go, but it should be a definite step up!

Cheers,

Edited January 24, 2014 by MedievalNerd

[bulletrhli]

This was my first time trying the mod and I started a new career mode but I had no capsules or anything to launch from to accumulate any science at the start. I am not sure if I am missing anything but I do have all the essentials besides life support. I do have KW and AIES.

Edit: Sorry, I saw that when you click the first node it says to unlock the node above it.

Edited January 24, 2014 by bulletrhli