[WIP][TechTree @ 0.23.5] - [MS19e] - Realistic Progression LITE

[Thalur]

I was trying L and L+ engines and I have all four engine packs on the front page of this mod, but I was seeing things like this (an AIES engine) where the part tooltip shows a thrust of 1125 but once it is on the vessel and I go out to the launch pad it drops down to only 500. I was thinking I had a nice 3m engine with plenty of thrust (mechjeb said base TWR of 2) only to have it drop to 0.8 or so when I try and launch.

(I have just noticed that there is an additional L config at the bottom with a thrust of 1125 using UDMH/N2O4 but I can't select that fuel type in the MFS dialog.)

But I am also seeing this (a KW Rocketry engine) where the part tooltip shows a thrust of 70 but MFS shows 230 (again with the inaccessible UDMH/N2O4 config):

I'm wondering if this an MFS issue, an issue with MedievalNerd's config in this mod, or if I just screwed up the installation (it wouldn't be the first time ).

Either way, I'm a big fan of the whole set of realism mods; they make the game so much more interesting

[Guest]

Hi,

Just wondering does Mars (Duna) allow for parachute assisted landings? I ask as i was landing a probe on Duna (Mars) and my parachutes never opened, causing my surface lander probe to become an surface impact probe lol. Please let me know if this is normal or if i ran into an odd issue. Thank you

[Eicher]

Hi,

Just wondering does Mars (Duna) allow for parachute assisted landings? I ask as i was landing a probe on Duna (Mars) and my parachutes never opened, causing my surface lander probe to become an surface impact probe lol. Please let me know if this is normal or if i ran into an odd issue. Thank you

Hello there fellow Kerbonaut (that right? seems it isn't)! But yes, Duna does have atmos to use parachute in, thing is it is extremely low to the ground (about 10km?) It has gotten me a few times for not noticing as well. =/

[Guest]

Hello there fellow Kerbonaut (that right? seems it isn't)! But yes, Duna does have atmos to use parachute in, thing is it is extremely low to the ground (about 10km?) It has gotten me a few times for not noticing as well. =/

Is this still true in RSS? my impact site was 4.3km off the "sea level" altitude, low enough that parachutes would have opened in Stock Scale KSP. I have not attempted a landing on Mars (duna) in Real Solar system scale before. Can anyone confirm a yes/no to parachutes on Mars in RSS?

[Eicher]

Is this still true in RSS? my impact site was 4.3km off the "sea level" altitude, low enough that parachutes would have opened in Stock Scale KSP. I have not attempted a landing on Mars (duna) in Real Solar system scale before. Can anyone confirm a yes/no to parachutes on Mars in RSS?

I will try again tonight when I get time, installed a boat load of mods and had to restart career mode. >.<

[NathanKell]

Use RealChutes.

[Guest]

Use RealChutes.

Thanks, Real chutes installed. Anyother important things i could be missing NathanKell?

[NathanKell]

Thalur: I'm afraid that's definitely an installation issue. The telltale sign is that you have two whole Modular Engines info blocks in your info window. It's not like engines can be more than one type.

Like it says in the OP, you need to delete ModularFuelTanks/RealFuels/Engines.cfg before installing Realism Overhaul (which includes its own engine configs).

Aazard: Do you have the mods from the second post of the RO thread? I haven't added RealChutes there, but the rest should be good stuff.

[MedievalNerd]

Howdy all,

Quick update, Nathan's been gracious enough to include some code in RSS to set altitude thresholds manually. We went over some figures last week, and i'll be implementing those values and trying them out to see how it goes. If I run into issues with the low/far approach, i'll see if I can't do some funky work around.

Once that's setup and proper, on with experiments and finishing up the WAC & V2 engines.

As always, thanks for all the feedback. I'm hoping MS19 will have a decent start up base with the new probes, and early manned experiments. Just for those concerned about the progression at this stage, V18 was pretty much a proof of concept of the experiments, how they work, people's reactions, etc.

Cheers,

Edited December 10, 2013 by MedievalNerd

[rottielover]

Current Available Experiments: (Other than stock ones)

Stock ones don't show up either, example, I can't take a surface sample with a kerbal, nor can I do a crew report.

KERBIN

Sub Orbitals

Probe: StayPutnik Mk1

#1 Kerbin - High Atmosphere - Readings - 25 Data - 25 Science Points

#2 Kerbin - High Atmosphere - Sample - 50 Data - 50 Science Points

So with all these realism mods installed I sent up your probe to the 20000 - 70000 range, filled the data recorder, and the only thing that happened was I got a warning that the data recorder was full. What am I missing?

EDIT< went back and tried again, same thing, filled the data recorder, no experiments show up after right clicks.

Edited December 11, 2013 by rottielover

[Guest]

Stock ones don't show up either, example, I can't take a surface sample with a kerbal, nor can I do a crew report.

So with all these realism mods installed I sent up your probe to the 20000 - 70000 range, filled the data recorder, and the only thing that happened was I got a warning that the data recorder was full. What am I missing?

EDIT< went back and tried again, same thing, filled the data recorder, no experiments show up after right clicks.

Are the "sample" / "reading" not present when right clicking on stayputnik mk1 probe? you should be able to start data collection at 18km (but under 103.5km) then take sample/reading & recover probe receiving about 79pts?

I originally made the mistake of trying to take readings from KER data recorder (flight computer) which can collect data also, but seems to have no experiments, which i later discovered was done on probe core (where you should start data collection from also)

[rottielover]

Are the "sample" / "reading" not present when right clicking on stayputnik mk1 probe? you should be able to start data collection at 18km (but under 103.5km) then take sample/reading & recover probe receiving about 79pts?

I originally made the mistake of trying to take readings from KER data recorder (flight computer) which can collect data also, but seems to have no experiments, which i later discovered was done on probe core (where you should start data collection from also)

Correct, when clicking on the probe core I can start the data recorder, but there are no options that you describe. I did not put the engineer thing on this test rocket.

[Guest]

Correct, when clicking on the probe core I can start the data recorder, but there are no options that you describe. I did not put the engineer thing on this test rocket.

Do you have the file "GameData\RPL_Tweak_Pack\Tweaks\Probe Experiment Tweaks\RPL_Tweaks_Probe_Squad.cfg" from the mini-pack? if so can you see the text body of:

"

MODULE

{

name = CustomExperiment

experimentID = KerFlyingHigh

experimentActionName = KE/Atm/Reading

resetActionName = Reset Reading

TargetBody = Kerbin

TargetSituation = FlyingHigh

ExperimentResource = Data

ExperimentCost = 25

useStaging = False

useActionGroups = True

hideUIwhenUnavailable = False

resettable = True

resettableOnEVA = True

xmitDataScalar = 1.0

// FxModules = 0

AlwaysActive = True

}

MODULE

{

name = CustomExperiment

experimentID = KerFlyingHighSample

experimentActionName = KE/Atm/Sample

resetActionName = Reset Sample

TargetBody = Kerbin

TargetSituation = FlyingHigh

ExperimentResource = Data

ExperimentCost = 50

useStaging = False

useActionGroups = True

hideUIwhenUnavailable = False

resettable = True

resettableOnEVA = True

xmitDataScalar = 0.0

AlwaysActive = True

"

If so it should be working, you could try reinstall of pack

[rottielover]

Do you ... *snip*

Yep, cfg file is in the exact path you list and looks like the same code.

I will rip out all my mods and try again, maybe I got an old version of something somewhere.

[MedievalNerd]

Yep, cfg file is in the exact path you list and looks like the same code.

I will rip out all my mods and try again, maybe I got an old version of something somewhere.

That's a very weird issue, please follow the installation instructions carefully. Don't download any mod that is already inside of the "essential pack". With Milestone 19 I'll be updating all of them. Also adding ECLSS and FAR in it too, probably KJR.

Also,

GREAT NEWS! The new config node that Nathan added allowed me to fix experiments being out of wack with RSS. IE, issues with Duna FlyingHigh vs SpaceLow/High.

I'm also experimenting with adding flyinglow/high to not atmospheric bodies, having a bit of issues though. Since the stock situation detection is hardcoded, I think it's got a atmoflag set to on regardless if you set your experiment to atmospheric requirement false. Going to see about adding a 'non existing' atmosphere to those bodies and see if it does anything funky. :/

Making progress, slow but sure!

[Guest]

That's a very weird issue, please follow the installation instructions carefully. Don't download any mod that is already inside of the "essential pack". With Milestone 19 I'll be updating all of them. Also adding ECLSS and FAR in it too, probably KJR.

Also,

GREAT NEWS! The new config node that Nathan added allowed me to fix experiments being out of wack with RSS. IE, issues with Duna FlyingHigh vs SpaceLow/High.

I'm also experimenting with adding flyinglow/high to not atmospheric bodies, having a bit of issues though. Since the stock situation detection is hardcoded, I think it's got a atmoflag set to on regardless if you set your experiment to atmospheric requirement false. Going to see about adding a 'non existing' atmosphere to those bodies and see if it does anything funky. :/

Making progress, slow but sure!

Cant wait for MS19! It will be great to have Kerbin (Earth) and the Mun (Luna) more fleshed out with some more custom probe/manned experiments. Any word on state of MCE integration as you move forwards, having budgets/parts stock eventually will be great to add even more realism! Keep up the great work.

[MedievalNerd]

Howdy all!

So I finally finished adding the Celestial Science Body Parameters to RSS. Well, Nathan made it possible, I just put in the numbers.

Sadly, the stock handling of science will make it a bit harder to have a "Flying high/low" for non atmospheric bodies. But! I already know how I'm going to handle it, so no worries. We'll get near/far approach for those for sure. One caveat, it'll only work with my custom experiments since stock handling is stubborn.

Here are the altitudes, in meters, for each body and which situation starts at what altitude. (Flying low isn't listed but it's obviously below the Flying High treshold. )

Also! Since I'm going to be making having to manually add these new situations, I've been talking with Nathan and I think I'll actually do LEO, MEO & HEO for Kerbin(earth)! Not that's it's anything ground breaking but it'll be nice to replicate experiments in those new situations.

FYI, MEO cutoff is Geosynch altitude, so for now LEO & MEO and merged as SpaceLow.

Now off to test this stuff to see if it go implemented right, then back to finishes off WAC & V2 engines, followed by the new experiment overhaul. (Since the early probes are nearly all done)

Stay tuned!

[MedievalNerd]

Howdy again folks,

So, all the celestial science params work great! So woo hoo for that! And it'll be also good for those playing 'stock' RSS. Since if anyone tried to do science on other planets, they probably noticed some funky behavior with the situations. That's all going to be fixed in the next RSS release.

I switched back to the WAC/V2 engines. Which I've completed, and here is a shot of the replica of Bumper 5!

Total Height: 17.25 m (56.61 ft).

A4 Engine (V2) - Diameter: 1.65 m (5.42 ft).

WAC Engine - Diameter : 0.3 Meters (0.98ft)

I'll have to go over some values with Nathan and also check MFT integration, he's making alcohol mixture . He's the best.

Behold, Bumper 5! Special thanks to Frizzank for the go ahead with the MM config using of his redstone engine model! Woo!

[..wesker..]

Hello , I have a problem I want to build a rocket but the engine sizes don't match with the fuel tanks . I don't know what is causing this

HELP

[MedievalNerd]

Hello , I have a problem I want to build a rocket but the engine sizes don't match with the fuel tanks . I don't know what is causing this

HELP

Howdy wesker,

That's because the Realism Overhaul mod resizes engines to 1,2,3, etc, meters. Stock tanks are 0.625, 1.25, 2.5M meters. Use the stretchy tanks to make them fit. Stretchy tanks come in 0.5, 1, 2, 3, 4 meter sizes and the 9000 version is resizable in terms of width so it can fit anything.

Cheers,

[How2FoldSoup]

I am noticing discrepancies between in-vab engineer numbers and out of vab engineer numbers. For example in the vab i can have a TWR of 1.1 but as soon as I go out onto the launch bad it drops to .8

Additionally I'm getting some weird behavior with the stretchy tanks as far as equal liquid fuel and oxidizer goes. I'm finding that either oxidizer or liquid fuel will run out first. All of this is confusing the hell out of flight engineer.

Thoughts?

Edit: I think I figured out stretchy tanks and i just want to confirm.

In the vab I go to action groups and then set the correct fuel types of whatever engines I'm using, then have it automatically balance the rest of the fuel...correct?

To reiterate on the TWR Issue: When I am sitting on the launchpad before staging for the first time my TWR is at 1.1. After staging and igniting the engines it drops to .8..It's very weird.

Edited December 14, 2013 by How2FoldSoup

[ferram4]

The TWR issue is that Modular Fuels sets the engine's Isp variation to control thrust while keeping fuel consumption constant, as it does in real life, unlike in stock KSP, which varies fuel consumption while keeping thrust constant. KER is unaware of this change, and is still assuming that engines will make the same thrust on the pad as they do in vacuum; you can calculate your TWR by multiplying your current TWR by atm Isp / vac Isp.

Basically, the tool is making a foolish assumption, and so it's producing a bad answer.

The stretchy tank fuel issue is the result of continued errors in the exact amount of fuel that can be carried as the tanks are scaled. Basically, what's happening is errors are accumulating to the point of serious inaccuracy. If you reset the fuel in the tanks after every resizing it will get rid of the error.

[How2FoldSoup]

I did not know this..that makes sense. Thank you I'll keep that in mind. I'm having more success with at least getting higher in atmo now. This mod makes me feel like I'm starting ksp all over again.

Also, In which thread can I find the appropriate dv numbers to reach orbit and where the atmosphere drops out. I just need to know so I have an idea of what to engineer for. I remember seeing info somewhere but I cannot remember where.

Thanks again,

Soup

[MedievalNerd]

I did not know this..that makes sense. Thank you I'll keep that in mind. I'm having more success with at least getting higher in atmo now. This mod makes me feel like I'm starting ksp all over again.

Also, In which thread can I find the appropriate dv numbers to reach orbit and where the atmosphere drops out. I just need to know so I have an idea of what to engineer for. I remember seeing info somewhere but I cannot remember where.

Thanks again,

Soup

Here you go!

Take note that you should give yourself some buffer unless you are really good at planning your maneuvers / launch window.

Also, the latest MJ build gives you your sea level TWR. So you can have an idea of what is your launch TWR. Hope this helps!

Cheers,

[How2FoldSoup]

Thank you! That's an extremely helpful diagram! Also MedievalNerd check your messages I pm'ed you earlier.

I am most definitely not that great at any of those things so I will do my best to over-engineer.

I guess it's time to switch to mj too, thanks!