[WIP][TechTree @ 0.23.5] - [MS19e] - Realistic Progression LITE

[Guest]

MedievalNerd: What are your thoughts about integrating support for space station parts, let's say Fustek, in the future?

I know a proper RO .cfg for the new Fustek dev build is yet to be made at the moment. But when there is one available, could Fustek space station parts be integrated via a hotfix? I know I would enjoy it atleast

I would second this, if any station parts are added, FusTek is 100% the most "realistic". That said, no rush to add parts, better to smooth out what we have already

[MedievalNerd]

MedievalNerd: What are your thoughts about integrating support for space station parts, let's say Fustek, in the future?

I know a proper RO .cfg for the new Fustek dev build is yet to be made at the moment. But when there is one available, could Fustek space station parts be integrated via a hotfix? I know I would enjoy it atleast

I would second this, if any station parts are added, FusTek is 100% the most "realistic". That said, no rush to add parts, better to smooth out what we have already

I definitely am interested in Space Stations, with custom experiments too! The only thing is that right now, I want to focus from start to finish, meaning iron out the early game first, before moving toward mid/late gameplay. Obviously space stations aren't the next step, but I'm open to any and all suggestions as to which mod we should pick for that.

So the answer is yes, but not for now. As you all have seen RPL MS19a needs a big hotfix. I'll post a list of things I've noticed, and check if I forgot anything. So I'll try to weed out 90% of the issues with a single hotfix. Then I can start slipping in new experiments to fill in the blank nodes in the Space Exploration section of the tree.

Thanks for all your patience and very useful feedback!

[brooklyn666]

Ok here is for anyone who is having trouble with my RT2 cfg.

For anyone who is interested, *** HERE *** is my Realism Overhaul for RemoteTech2. To use, simply put the cfg in your Gamedata folder, and delete the AIES RT2 cfg if you have it.

Make sure you have the following settings in your RemoteTech_Settings.cfg:

ConsumptionMultiplier = 1

RangeMultiplier = 1

RangeModelType = Root

MultipleAntennaMultiplier = somewhere between 0.25 and 1. Experiment to see what works best for you.

I also suggest increasing your ground station omni range, but whether or not, and by how much is up to you.

If you add this to an existing save, you may find that some of your probes/satellites are no longer in range, or don't have enough power, so I recommend only using it on a new save.

You'll also want to change the coordinates of your ground station to match the latest RSS Earth.

Many thanks to NathanKell and RedAV8R for helping me put this together.

[Ratzap]

Has anyone gotten the explorer probe core experiments to work? I goggled it to get the nasa page explaining how it was made up, built it and launched ok but switching the data recorder on just drains all the charge. There's no data resource shown so you can't complete them.

[Guest]

Has anyone gotten the explorer probe core experiments to work? I goggled it to get the nasa page explaining how it was made up, built it and launched ok but switching the data recorder on just drains all the charge. There's no data resource shown so you can't complete them.

you will need entry: (if i'm correct that both tests are in low space..)

for data generation:

	MODULE
	{
		name = DataGeneratorModule	

		useStaging = False
		useActionGroups = True
		hideUIwhenUnavailable = False

		IsEnabled = False

		InputResource = ElectricCharge
		OutputResource = Data

		OutputRatio = 0.1
		InputRatio = 0.005

		MaxDataAmount = 500

		TargetBody = Kerbin
		TargetSituation1 = InSpaceLow
		TargetSituation2 = InSpaceLow
	}

And for data storage:

RESOURCE
	{
		name = Data
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 500
	}

The tests them selves:

!MODULE[ModuleScienceExperiment]
{
}


	MODULE
	{
		name = CustomExperiment	
		experimentID = Explorer1

		experimentActionName = Radiation Readings
		resetActionName = Reset Readings

		TargetBody = Kerbin
		TargetSituation = InSpaceLow
		ExperimentResource = Data
		ExperimentCost = 100

		useStaging = False
		useActionGroups = True
		hideUIwhenUnavailable = False

		xmitDataScalar = 1.0

		FxModules = 0

		AlwaysActive = True

		dataIsCollectable = True
		collectActionName = Collect Data
		interactionRange = 1.2
		rerunnable = True
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = CustomExperiment	
		experimentID = Explorer1-2

		experimentActionName = Radiation Readings
		resetActionName = Reset Readings

		TargetBody = Kerbin
		TargetSituation = InSpaceLow
		ExperimentResource = Data
		ExperimentCost = 100

		useStaging = False
		useActionGroups = True
		hideUIwhenUnavailable = False

		xmitDataScalar = 1.0

		FxModules = 0

		AlwaysActive = True

		dataIsCollectable = True
		collectActionName = Collect Data
		interactionRange = 1.2
		rerunnable = True
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = DataGeneratorModule	

		useStaging = False
		useActionGroups = True
		hideUIwhenUnavailable = False

		IsEnabled = False

		InputResource = ElectricCharge
		OutputResource = Data

		OutputRatio = 0.1
		InputRatio = 0.005

		MaxDataAmount = 500

		TargetBody = Kerbin
		TargetSituation1 = FlyingHigh
		TargetSituation2 = InSpaceLow
	}

}

that said, user made fixes tend to be iffy at best, esp when suggested by me....

Edited April 24, 2014 by Guest

[Ratzap]

Thanks, I just noticed the RPL folder where the config should be has an empty folder called Explorer1_RPL.cfg instead. It's almost like someone rushed this thing out

[MedievalNerd]

Thanks, I just noticed the RPL folder where the config should be has an empty folder called Explorer1_RPL.cfg instead. It's almost like someone rushed this thing out

Guilty as charged. But at this point I was getting tunnel vision, you are all giving a great helping hand which I greatly appreciate.

I'll get things back inline, trust me.

[Guest]

Thanks, I just noticed the RPL folder where the config should be has an empty folder called Explorer1_RPL.cfg instead. It's almost like someone rushed this thing out

file is here: Kerbal Space Program\GameData\RPL_Tweak_Pack\Tweaks\FASA\Explorer 1

[Ratzap]

file is here: Kerbal Space Program\GameData\RPL_Tweak_Pack\Tweaks\FASA\Explorer 1

Yeah ta, I found it after your first post, popped the missing data resource in and some missing '@' signs to appease MM and redid the mission. The probe battery seems a bit small but it still flies with a Z200 wacked on top so /shrug. Job done, 250 science

[MedievalNerd]

OK,

So here is the feedback I've collected to this point. If you see anything I've overlooked, or want to specifically call out something please do.

Planned MS19b Fixes

Tree Updates

•Move ALL stretchy or PP parts to starting nodes

•Get Real Chutes back in... (Oups, They will be assigned to starting nodes)

•Move all Fairings to starting nodes.

•Put Vanguard probe where it's supposed to be.

•Temporarily move all plane parts to the first node. (Except any KSPI scoops)

Plugin Fixes

•Update method for situations to reflect new RSS V6 atmospheric calculations

CFG Fixes

•Increase payout for WAC-Bumper experiments & Fix Data Recorder limit

•Review payouts for Sputnik 1 & 2

•Fix issues with FASA's Explorer 1 Custom Experiments

•Fix Stretchy & Fairings size limitations & bind to RPL Tech nodes

•Temporarily remove changes to stock instruments. (Thermometer, etc.)

•Update tech levels for Real Fuels to match RPL (SRBs & Fuel engines)

•Remove confusing MS17/18 legacy experiments

•Review atmo flags for all experiments

•Fix resizing issues with root parts. (... D: )

•Add pre-edited RT2 Settings file.

OP Updates

• Update New Altitude Cutoffs

• Put updated version of MS19 tech tree

• Include full patch notes

• Update installations notes to include all necessary CFGs. (To play as intended)

- Brooklyn666 Antenna Range/Power overhaul

- Reach For The Stars Engine Config

- RedAV8R's FASA Realism patch

- I'm sure I'm forgetting some patches here?

EXTRAS!

•Add Sample collection around Earth Orbit & on Moon.

•Find my damn Venera & Mars probes, or make quick new ones. (The fly bys)

Again, anything I've overlooked in the above please let me know and I'll update the list to make sure I caught all the major ones.

Edited April 24, 2014 by MedievalNerd

[phoenix_ca]

Nuts. I was liking it until I read that you made changes (rather sweeping changes) to science experiments. I kinda like the put stuff somewhere, do "science" absurdity of it all. But it's like you've got two mods in one here. One that changes how science is acquired, and one that changes how it is applied. :/

[MedievalNerd]

Nuts. I was liking it until I read that you made changes (rather sweeping changes) to science experiments. I kinda like the put stuff somewhere, do "science" absurdity of it all. But it's like you've got two mods in one here. One that changes how science is acquired, and one that changes how it is applied. :/

Is it the body specific experiments that you dislike? But you like the data collection mechanic?

[Ratzap]

Personally I love the historic/progression missions tied to various probes (and hopefully pods?). It give the whole thing a story feel to it plus guides a player along the path they probably need to take to progress.

One thing I noticed late last night was the FASA stuff isn't using real fuels (the redstone mercury for example that explorer uses was liquidfuel/oxidizer). Is there a config missing somewhere or has that not been done by anyone yet?

From that list, what's wrong with the stock science parts that you want to revert?

[Ratzap]

Oh yeah, another thing: The charge amounts in the probes seem a bit random. One has 10 then 100 and vanguard has 300,000 - makes it a fabulous battery. I also remember in 18 there was a Luna probe experiment, what happened to it?

[MedievalNerd]

Oh yeah, another thing: The charge amounts in the probes seem a bit random. One has 10 then 100 and vanguard has 300,000 - makes it a fabulous battery. I also remember in 18 there was a Luna probe experiment, what happened to it?

All 'missions' from MS17/18 should have been replaced/removed. There should be at least Luna 1, where you have to vent the chemical trail while flying low over the Moon.

I'll give that a look at as well. Again, if anybody notices that there is something missing in the fix list, please post a reply or send me a PM. I'll add it to the list.

that way we'll have one epic hotfix, and boom! Then I can focus on adding in more experiments and complete the "exploration tree section".

And yes, I'm going to add custom experiments for manned capsules. A bit of a downer was when I realized that my personal 'data collectin' or even the stock 'data transmition' aren't affect by Time Warp.

As such, making an experiment that would require the capsule to do at least a full orbit and accumulate Data throughout. The time it takes to fill it up would take as long at X1, or even X100. Since it's unaffected by Time Warp.

So my Space Station, and long duration manned experiments will have to figure out a clever way to make it work without having to wait 45 minutes to do a full orbit. :/ (The historical missions had way more than 1 orbit too lol)

[Ratzap]

As such, making an experiment that would require the capsule to do at least a full orbit and accumulate Data throughout. The time it takes to fill it up would take as long at X1, or even X100. Since it's unaffected by Time Warp.

So my Space Station, and long duration manned experiments will have to figure out a clever way to make it work without having to wait 45 minutes to do a full orbit. :/ (The historical missions had way more than 1 orbit too lol)

There are methods you can call to find out how much time has passed and have it include the warp effect. Just checking the refs in my mono install: TimeWarp.deltaTime or TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime ought to do it for you. So when you process your OnGUI or Update, use that to work out how much data to add instead of just the amount per second.

[Ratzap]

Another thing I just remembered for the list: the RSS stuff now has an earth map instead of Kerbin, this is great but for the fact that biomes are completely mucked up. Biomes which people need to be able to find in order to collect science. Some config/instructions on adding a custom biome to the new earth map are needed.

[Guest]

I know mission controller extended uses a method of AP/PE values and a timer, although i am unsure how this works exactly. It may be usable in this situation

[Guest]

OK,

So here is the feedback I've collected to this point. If you see anything I've overlooked, or want to specifically call out something please do.

Planned MS19b Fixes

Tree Updates

•Move ALL stretchy or PP parts to starting nodes

•Get Real Chutes back in... (Oups, They will be assigned to starting nodes)

•Move all Fairings to starting nodes.

•Put Vanguard probe where it's supposed to be.

•Temporarily move all plane parts to the first node. (Except any KSPI scoops)

Plugin Fixes

•Update method for situations to reflect new RSS V6 atmospheric calculations

CFG Fixes

•Increase payout for WAC-Bumper experiments & Fix Data Recorder limit

•Review payouts for Sputnik 1 & 2

•Fix issues with FASA's Explorer 1 Custom Experiments

•Fix Stretchy & Fairings size limitations & bind to RPL Tech nodes

•Temporarily remove changes to stock instruments. (Thermometer, etc.)

•Update tech levels for Real Fuels to match RPL (SRBs & Fuel engines)

•Remove confusing MS17/18 legacy experiments

•Review atmo flags for all experiments

•Fix resizing issues with root parts. (... D: )

•Add pre-edited RT2 Settings file.

OP Updates

• Update New Altitude Cutoffs

• Put updated version of MS19 tech tree

• Include full patch notes

• Update installations notes to include all necessary CFGs. (To play as intended)

- Brooklyn666 Antenna Range/Power overhaul

- Reach For The Stars Engine Config

- RedAV8R's FASA Realism patch

- I'm sure I'm forgetting some patches here?

EXTRAS!

•Add Sample collection around Earth Orbit & on Moon.

•Find my damn Venera & Mars probes, or make quick new ones. (The fly bys)

Again, anything I've overlooked in the above please let me know and I'll update the list to make sure I caught all the major ones.

to add: (these seem the only important things i can think of, relating to life support and jets)

AJE realistic jet engines RO mod,

TAC RO fix files

ECLSS Real Fuels files

I noticed a small issue with both procedural parts and stretch SRB's installed ... i dont seem to see any stretchy SRB's but i do see procedural ones.

what do you mean by "Temporarily remove changes to stock instruments. (Thermometer, etc.)" << they seem to be working perfectly for me

As for plane parts...as they arnt vastly important to RPL techtree having them in one node should be fine, with the exception of suborbital/orbital capable saber/merlin like engines and ram/scram type jets which could sit in a node more suited to them (scram/ram jets in the early 1960's rocket node or a 1960's jet node and merlin/saber types in a 1970/1980's node).

If possible procedural dynamics (which contains 6 parts i believe) would be a nice addition to allow more freedom in shuttle/skylon/SSTO type designs

A suggestion for "early" manned pods using tac would be these Electrolyser and a Fuel Cell parts from TAC thread, this would be more realistic than skinning craft with early solar panels IMHO, relying on battery power and resources onboard .. BUT i do not think they have been RO resized (if someone knows how to do this please let me know and i will post RO resized/remassed versions here)

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-0-23-5-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec?p=852345&viewfull=1#post852345

EDIT fixed science.cfg from interstellar to replace file found at location "Kerbal Space Program\GameData\WarpPlugin", makes seismic sensor work as stock and as impact sensor (default it would lose stock abilities)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xby8z8xawv3jsa4/science.cfg

Edited April 24, 2014 by Guest

[phoenix_ca]

Is it the body specific experiments that you dislike? But you like the data collection mechanic?

Neither actually. When I looked at this mod, I was hoping for just a more in-depth tech tree, with more nodes so I could use extra experiments from mods without blasting through KSPI's tree. But since it also changes how science is acquired, I'm just sticking with increasing the cost for each node in other trees.

[NathanKell]

Ratzap: Do you have RedAV8R's FASA patches installed?

Charge amounts need a once-over, yeah.

Biome support is in the RSS OP now.

Aazard: I second placing pwings in the start node. You need it for making fins small enough to fit on starting rockets anyway.

[Ratzap]

Ratzap: Do you have RedAV8R's FASA patches installed?

Charge amounts need a once-over, yeah.

Biome support is in the RSS OP now.

Aazard: I second placing pwings in the start node. You need it for making fins small enough to fit on starting rockets anyway.

Ah no I didn't, looking at his patch now though and it says it doesn't work with RftS? That would be bad since we're using that in RPL right. And yes, I stuck pwings in for that reason too. With SAS so weak now and parts limited at the beginning I needed fins to have some chance at control.

[Guest]

PS: Nathan, what do you feed your rockets to give them that outstanding shape/look, as seen in your pic of bumber probe HERE?

Makes my bumper HERE look like some type of evil dwarf step child

On charge amounts i am still a fan of a "universal base charge/power usage" for probes in a diameter category (all 0.5m have these power stats, all 0.625m have these power stats ect), but something reasonable with a drain level that would deplete internal batteries over 24 hours. This would make probe core selection a more tame task (and it would prevent people using only one probe core, not because they like it but because it has best mass to power supply to drain ratio) with out just working the math on mass to power supply to drain rate and picking the "winner".

something that would allow lets say 0.5m & 0.625m probes to be powered 3x evenly spaced "starter" solar panels (allowing 1 panel to always receive sunlight) or be used suborbitaly on pure battery power even allowing for a transmission or 2 of full payload science data (1 transmission of all 4 stock sensors plus FASA goo & camera, plus interstellar magnetosphereic probe with enough left after to complete a suborbital recovery)

Edited April 24, 2014 by Guest

[MedievalNerd]

PS: Nathan, what do you feed your rockets to give them that outstanding shape/look, as seen in your pic of bumber probe HERE?

Makes my bumper HERE look like some type of evil dwarf step child

On charge amounts i am still a fan of a "universal base charge/power usage" for probes in a diameter category (all 0.5m have these power stats, all 0.625m have these power stats ect), but something reasonable with a drain level that would deplete internal batteries over 24 hours. This would make probe core selection a more tame task (and it would prevent people using only one probe core, not because they like it but because it has best mass to power supply to drain ratio) with out just working the math on mass to power supply to drain rate and picking the "winner".

something that would allow lets say 0.5m & 0.625m probes to be powered 3x evenly spaced "starter" solar panels (allowing 1 panel to always receive sunlight) or be used suborbitaly on pure battery power even allowing for a transmission or 2 of full payload science data (1 transmission of all 4 stock sensors plus FASA goo & camera, plus interstellar magnetosphereic probe with enough left after to complete a suborbital recovery)

Early probes had enough power to last for very, very long time. Surprisingly so. For SOME of the probes, I looked up the mission duration, and cutoff the power when the high gain antenna stops working. Then I convert that to EC so that the consumption lasts as long. In some cases I even reduced it a bit because it's so over the top. (Based on Wikipedia & Astronautix)

[MedievalNerd]

Planned MS19b Fixes - Version 2

Tree Updates

•Move ALL stretchy or PP parts to starting nodes

•Get Real Chutes back in... (Oups, They will be assigned to starting nodes)

•Move all Fairings to starting nodes.

•Put Vanguard probe where it's supposed to be.

•Temporarily move all plane parts to the first node. (Except any KSPI scoops)

Plugin Fixes

•Update method for situations to reflect new RSS V6 atmospheric calculations

• Add Procedural Wings & Place them in starting node.

CFG Fixes

•Increase payout for WAC-Bumper experiments & Fix Data Recorder limit

•Review payouts for Sputnik 1 & 2

•Fix issues with FASA's Explorer 1 Custom Experiments

•Fix Stretchy & Fairings size limitations & bind to RPL Tech nodes

•Temporarily remove changes to stock instruments. (Thermometer, etc.)

•Update tech levels for Real Fuels to match RPL (SRBs & Fuel engines)

•Remove confusing MS17/18 legacy experiments

•Review atmo flags for all experiments

•Fix resizing issues with root parts. (... D: )

•Add pre-edited RT2 Settings file.

OP Updates

• Update New Altitude Cutoffs

• Put updated version of MS19 tech tree

• Include full patch notes

• Update installations notes to include all necessary CFGs. (To play as intended)

- Brooklyn666 Antenna Range/Power overhaul

- Reach For The Stars Engine Config

- RedAV8R's FASA Realism patch

- RSS new Biomes patch/config

- RO TAC Patch files

- Real Fuels ECLSS Patch files

- I'm sure I'm forgetting some patches here?

EXTRAS!

•Add Sample collection around Earth Orbit & on Moon.

•Find my damn Venera & Mars probes, or make quick new ones. (The fly bys)