[NOT suggestion] Maxmaps and Girlbals

[tntristan12]

Emilynn and Hellou in Brotoro's Laythe missions are just too awesome not to have female Kerbals.

Damn! Somebody beat me to it.

I don't have much to contribute to this discussion that hasn't already been more eloquently stated. I will say that I agree wholeheartedly with Tiberion and Regex, and would like to point out that even though kerbals aren't humans, they are clearly intended to be anthropomorphized as such, so that they can be empathized with and related to...

And honestly adding female Kerbals increases the diversity of your flight crews anyway so how can that be a bad thing? I honestly find it boring that Kerbals are all carbon copies of one another, despite having distinct names and personalities.

[pxi]

I find it interesting that people are having a hard time finding "female" Kerbals. I've had a Rosy Kerman, Jenny Kerman, Annie Kerman etc.

I think that is partly down to the random nature of how most of the names are generated. Theoretically it could throw up an endless supply of 'female' names, or you could play for years and never see a single one.

[Rockhem]

It doesn't matter, next there will be a kerbal for every minorirty, we got mexican kerbal, we got dark kerbal, we got asian kerbal, we got european kerbal, we got italian kerbal, so on a so forth.

You don't see every minority come up to KSP and say for example, "Why aren't there kerbals that look like (insert minority here)!"

It is just a waste of developer time that could be used to add actual features, this is why things get pushed back and then when updates like this come out it is like WAAAAAAA! NOTHING BUT COSMETIC UPDATE WAAAAAA! (whining in entitled voice)

I would rather have the devs work on the models for something like resources then have them waste time making models for female kerbals.

[TMS]

Their inclusion would be a positive for challenging stereotypes.

Also, they should have pink spacesuits.

[Superfluous J]

It doesn't matter, next there will be a kerbal for every minorirty, we got mexican kerbal, we got dark kerbal, we got asian kerbal, we got european kerbal, we got italian kerbal, so on a so forth.

I thought of 2 responses to this, and don't know which one to use so I'll just post both.

1) And then what if a Kerbal wants to marry a horse? Should that be legal too? Or their iPhone? Where does it stop!?

2) And that would be horrible how, exactly?

Actually you can't really argue that Kerbals look like White American Males. They're green, after all. Plenty of (and perhaps all) nationalities and races have dark haired males, and none have green skin so really, a Kerbal can be a representation of any race equally. Sure, we could give them different hued green skin and I don't see that increasing development time so drastically as to impede the next update.

However, you CAN really argue that Kerbals look like SOME KIND OF males. They do not look female. At all.

[regex]

Also, they should have pink spacesuits.

I'd be for this if for no other reason than the possibility of additional spacesuit textures for Universe Replacer.

[Comrade Jenkens]

I'm pretty sure that Kerbals are meant to be gender neutral as they are now and I wouldn't mind having just one gender as long as they ARE gender neutral. However the current ones display characteristics that our human brains interpret as male, thus everyone who plays or sees the game assumes they are male. This could easily be off putting to girls or women who want to play.

I think that either female kerbals need to be added (as long as they aren't sexualised), OR the current kerbals just need to be tweaked to appear more androgynous.

[frizzank]

Or make them all female.

[Whirligig Girl]

No. That's as bad as all male.

[Deathsoul097]

It would be funny though if this was implemented, and if you had a male crew member in the same module as a female one, his stupidity would automatically increase.

[Lheim]

One of the arguments I recall centered around the MMO Tera's 'elin' race.

The argument went that no, of course they weren't just almost naked ten year girls with cat ears. That's just a dirty mind thinking that! They're forest spirits.

To which I reply.. well, okay. Where's my race of bear spirits that look like hairy oiled half naked men? What, that seems .. sexual? Dirty mind! I cast shame on you!

The people who are saying the kerbals are genderless are pretty much in the same ilk - I say if it looks like a guy, is named like a guy, and occupies a traditionally male occupation, it's a guy, not a forest spirit, no matter the spin you try to put on it. We need female kerbals.. and that image on the faked up voyager plaque is exactly right. Female without being sexual.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Lheim

[camulus777]

I love that you put up this discussion, and i think that the issue is very relevant. Female Kerbals is in my opinion a very productive addition to the game not in a sexual way but in the sense that women in space in the real world was a social milestone that helped bridge the gender game. Simply avoiding the subject because of possible political correctness issues would be a weakness on the games part. Women exist I have seen them. So to should kerbal women, not to be fair, or appease anyone but simply because it will hmanise them a bit more. That said they should be in no way overly sexualised or less effective than male kerbals. Simply they should just be.

[peadar1987]

How hard could it be to add a "female" hairstyle, a rounder jaw, and a few more "female" suffixes to the name generator (Rayly, Geofette, Shellia)? Keep the body shape the same, give them the same space suits, and shut us all up for the minimum of effort!

[vexx32]

Heh, yeah, they could. I can just see the suggestions forum flooding with "why don't the female kerbonauts have [iNSERT HUMAN FEMALE FEATURE HERE]" for months after they do xD

If they're going to do it, they should probably do a decent job.

[peadar1987]

heh, yeah, they could. I can just see the suggestions forum flooding with "why don't the female kerbonauts have [insert human female feature here]" for months after they do xd

if they're going to do it, they should probably do a decent job.

Why doesn't jebediah have a beard!!!!!!

[J.Random]

Why doesn't jebediah have a beard!!!!!!

Also, chopper.

[Outlander4]

Actually, the difference between a female astranaut and a male astranaut when they're suited up isn't that apparent. So, if KSP just adds the same model with slightly different face and more femenine hairstyle it'd be more than enough, no?

EDIT: I don't know how I've missed people telling the same thing just a couple of posts above; consider that I'm adding my voice to theirs.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Outlander4

[Jav]

Well, we could define why they are the way they are now, to begin with. As far as I can tell, the current Kerbal model looks like a parody of the Kennedy-era image of a nasa astronaut. As such parody, they are presented as a bunch of buzz-cut, derp-faced yes men that you can sacrifice by the dozen in order to further the player's goals. They are not inherently designed as endearing avatars. They are cute but defacto expendable.

As important as social issues are, and as vital as it is today to further an egalitarian view whenever possible, it's vital not to shoehorn it wherever in order to achieve these goals.

That said, it would be an interesting idea to introduce them within the in-world narrative of the game. Much like NASA took its time to involve women in their ranks, the game could reflect the advance of equality in some form, including girl kerbs in a way that makes sense within the player progression and the way the game world parallels the real world space race.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Jav

[r4pt0r]

why is there a need to be politically correct? 10% of all people that have been in space have been women. and assuming squad is going for the kennedy era nasa look, then it should be about 20 years before squad adds female kerbals.

[whistlehead]

In my opinion, adding female Kerbals into the game is pretty much a must-do, primarily for the aforementioned reason of getting young girls interested in space and not alienating them from the very beginning.

The design on that voyager plater is absolutely perfect. Feminine while not sexual and entirely fitting with the current kerbal design.

On a slight aside, if female kerbals were to be implemented, what would happen to Bill, Bob and Jeb? Would they still be the first-launch trio? Would one of them have to undergo some rather radical surgery? Would a new female trio of invincibles be introduced? And how could they have the same meaning as that which bob bill and jeb have acquired? Maybe it would be better to lose the big three - after all, only long-term players and forum members will get the joke. It's tricky.

Edited November 19, 2013 by whistlehead

[sumghai]

On a slight aside, if female kerbals were to be implemented, what would happen to Bill, Bob and Jeb? Would they still be the first-launch trio? Would one of them have to undergo some rather radical surgery? Would a new female trio of invincibles be introduced? And how could they have the same meaning as that which bob bill and jeb have acquired? Maybe it would be better to lose the big three - after all, only long-term players and forum members will get the joke. It's tricky.

Ideally, I'd like to see Jeb/Bob/Bill remain the default first three Kerbalnauts, and have female Kerbalnauts available from the list of candidates soon after.

[regex]

On a slight aside, if female kerbals were to be implemented, what would happen to Bill, Bob and Jeb? Would they still be the first-launch trio? Would one of them have to undergo some rather radical surgery? Would a new female trio of invincibles be introduced? And how could they have the same meaning as that which bob bill and jeb have acquired? Maybe it would be better to lose the big three - after all, only long-term players and forum members will get the joke. It's tricky.

Well, since they're not any more invincible than any other Kerbal right now I don't think that's really anything to worry about. The only thing that makes them special is Jeb's badass flag and their orange suits that aren't used on EVA, and apparently other Kerbals can be generated with the badass flag (maybe that'll be part of a new Kerbal generation routine too). Maybe there'll be an option to start with a random crew instead of the orange three (I'd actually love to see that option).

[NekoNina]

I would have to disagree that the argument is flawed, your understanding of it seems to be somewhat ignorant. That the Kerbals are sexless or gender-neutral is a concept that would be in my opinion a refreshing way to represent characters in a game. Especially given that KSP is at heart a physics driven space sim and not much more ... However, when you look at any given Kerbal, what do you see at 1st glance without the reinforcement of say for example; The photo that depicts Kerbals wearing hard hats, dirty jump suits, and holding hammers. "NOBODY IN THIS IMAGE IS MALE" Doesn't cut it. If you are not familiar with gender-signifiers, let me educate you. Lets assume you have a baby Chicken, not easy to tell if it is male or female unless you are familiar with how the feathers indicate that. (Ignore the feather thing, it is just for the example and adds up to nothing more than semantics.) Lets put a tie on it, give it a top hat and name it Bob. Would you say it is male? Or Female? The answer here should be very obvious. Male. How about female signifiers then? Lets give it a Floral hat, or perhaps a bow on its head, or earrings. You would then given the signifiers, come to the conclusion that it is depicted as Female. Same with the Kerbals, they have buzz-cut hair styles, square jawlines, mostly male based names. I do not see a genderless race, asexual maybe, but very obviously male in appearance. Smooth the jaw line, make the hair a slightly different pattern, and you have a Kerbal that looks Female. If Squad wants sexless asexual genderless Kerbals, they have done a poor job in implementing it. I would like for them to either change the Kerbals to a model that actualy has an androgynous appearance, or simply make a few changes to the model, texture, and RNG database to add in Kerbals that appear Female. Either way would be sufficient, but as it is now, they are "male" in appearance. I personally default to calling them "Little Green Men", or "Funny little Green Dudes" As they appear to be. I can't say it enough, GENDER-SIGNIFIERS is the issue. Simple Solution; Exclude both sides of the coin, or include both. Like I said, as they are now, the game is ignoring half the players in terms of being able to relate to gender-signifiers. Simple, Easy to Remember, You have no excuse for Ignorance now. Take that as you will, as I intend no offence to anyone. Good Day. ^.^ PS: Interesting fan designs posted on forums and the like I have found to bring a good balance to including both sides of the proverbial coin; http://imageshack.us/a/img4/7378/kerbalplaque.jpg http://www.spaceflightonline.net/images/kerbals.jpg

[vexx32]

This thread is quite old, and I really don't think we need to start another argument over this. The devs have the last word on whether this is or is not happening, and they've yet to confirm with certainty that it's going to go either way.

Closing.