[0.23.5] Realism Overhaul: ROv5.2 + Modlist for RSS 6/30/14

[NathanKell]

AbeS: One had duplicate http:, but I found none missing a :

Thanks though!

Updated with MedievalNerd's fixed upload.

BobCat's Real Engines are designed so that those without MFS can use them too; the RealFuels config is only done by MFS. To see the actual part info, go to action editor and click on the engine.

Jobin: You need about 9.3km/s dV for orbit. Show a picture of your rocket and I'll try to help. When I get a chance I'll show a screenshot of a working launcher and the MJ profile used to launch it; don't know how to do a video. Others are welcome to, of course!

Don't know about the comms issue...using RT2?

[AbeS]

As much as I love this, I'm having some problems with it. I started with a clean install, then installed MFS RFRM, Stretchy SRB, Deadly Reentry, and RSS. Then I extracted the RO content into GameData, and removed the MFS engines.cfg file that's mentioned.

Everything works perfectly (ran the game after every mod install) until I get to installing this one (RO), at which point my 3-man pod, large orange tank, and rockomax engine are all different diameters (should all be same). What am I screwing up?

You aren't doing anything wrong, that means the mod is working correctly, all those parts were given different sizes from the stock ones. For example the pods are smaller in Stock compared to real ones, so they both got bigger

[ChronicSilence]

You aren't doing anything wrong, that means the mod is working correctly, all those parts were given different sizes from the stock ones. For example the pods are smaller in Stock compared to real ones, so they both got bigger

Fair enough, but this means that in order for this mod to be useful you HAVE to also have something like KW rocketry installed (I think). After the rescaling, there is no stock engine that is the same diameter as either pod, which makes it very difficult to build an aerodynamic rocket. If that's the case, then some part mods should be added to the "Required mods" list so you can actually build something.

It would be really cool if we could have a thread to post some example spacecraft (or even if some could be included in the mod like Ferram does with FAR). I finally, after many hours, managed to get my probe into orbit but the only way I could do it was with 16 solid rocket motors.

Finally, does anyone know if Kerbal Engineering Redux works with the resized versions of everything? From the comments it seems like MechJeb does.

Edited November 23, 2013 by ChronicSilence

[Morrigi]

Will there be some kind of fix for the size issue? Everything being a different diameter is slightly obnoxious. Personally, I find this nearly unplayable due to the diameter changes on some parts but not others and the host of bugs regarding engine and fuel tank configuration, as well as linear quadcouplers entirely failing to feed engines, even with fuel lines attached.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Morrigi

[Jobin]

Well, I finally managed to get Jeb into orbit with a little bit of help from MechJeb on the ascent. Career mode has proven to be really tough to start out with this mod configuration. I also discovered that in my excitement I overlooked installing RT2 and didn't properly install Medieval's tech tree rework, so that fixed the comms bugs.

I'm noticing that the decoupler sizes don't seem to fit KW and AEIS well either, but other than that this is great.

[AbeS]

Am I missing something? I only have one new heat shield from RO (4M), and none of the DREc seem to be 2M (or 3M, the mk1 pod size)?

[NathanKell]

ChronicSilence: StretchyTanks is a required mod for this. But yes, you are expected to use, for example, a LV-909 or Poodle as your OME at the base of a 4m tank; service modules don't need much thrust.

Both MJ and KER don't care a bit about part size; they just read stats. So yes, it's compatible. Only issue with KER is it doesn't realize that thrust varies with Isp now; I wrote a patch for MJ that sarbian merged, so MJ does; cybutek said s/he would maybe add something when redoing the sim code. If it goes too long (per my ancient promise to asmi) I'll write my own patch for KER too. :]

Morrigi: What host of bugs?

I'll look at the adapter.

Per the OP, tanks are mostly expected to be Stretchies, which can resize to any diameter (but I also added regular-meter fixed size STs to v6)

AbeS: The mk1 pod is 2m at the base, and includes its own heat shield.

[NathanKell]

Jobin: I should make rescaled KW ones I guess, but since I only ever use Proc Interstage as my decoupler I never remember to.

[SFJackBauer]

Is there a spreadsheet with the engines list and stats, similar to MFS? It could be handy while I don't re-memorize all the thrusts / isps again.

[NathanKell]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dseuvm4f6m8v4no/Calcs.xls

[amo28]

Was there a tweak for RSS using Kerbal Joint Reinforcement to prevent the whole "stuck to launchpad" issue? I thought I remembered seeing a fix in either RSS or KJR's thread, but can't find it. If there is, will it be included in this pack at some point?

[ferram4]

Yes; it was called updating KJR to the latest version.

[NathanKell]

Until ferram or I or Squad (heh) fixes the issue with launch clamps, what you should do is place (a) decoupler(s) at the bottom of (all) your stage(s). Then set the decoupler(s) to detach along with main engine ignition. That'll fix it, and, if you attach girders to the decouplers in a wheel-and-spokes manner, give you stability too.

[amo28]

Yes; it was called updating KJR to the latest version.

Already did. Reinstalled twice just to be sure.

I don't think the issue is necessarily with KJR -- what I'm noticing is something having to do with the engine nozzle being slightly below the metal "grill" of the launchpad when physics initializes.

If the launch initializes like this, no space. If it doesn't, which seems to be every other, or every third relaunch, then space. This can happen with AND without launch clamps.

I really hope I'm not the only one seeing this...

[NathanKell]

Right. That's the actual reason Clamps were added, IIRC. That's why I posted what I did, an alternate way to get that function.

[MedievalNerd]

Shamless self promotion is, 3, 2, 1:

My RPL Tech Tree version 18 is out! Go break it!

[DasBananenbrot]

Shamless self promotion is, 3, 2, 1:

My RPL Tech Tree version 18 is out! Go break it!

will break the sh*t out of it

[p3asant]

Is there any way to extra stiffen batteries connections, like with decouplers, using KJR? My ships are now breaking apart at battery connections. Probably due to their extra low mass.

[MedievalNerd]

Is there any way to extra stiffen batteries connections, like with decouplers, using KJR? My ships are now breaking apart at battery connections. Probably due to their extra low mass.

I'm assuming you are keeping an eye on your G forces? It's rather insane now (since how light tanks are) how you can easily over G espacially in later stages depending on how powerful you engine is. Does the F2 report say why it disconnected?

[ANWRocketMan]

@p3asant:

I made some Service Module parts so that my batteries can be stored in the stage itself. I also added ServiceModule tank types to my command modules(in a relatively balanced way) so I could add RCS etc to them for during re-entry. It's solved my problems with using battery banks. So much so that I deleted a bunch of stock and mod parts that I don't use anymore. Especially fuel tanks.

@MedievalNerd: I love flipping the occasional rocket now and having them actually explode from the G-Forces. Now we just need some big dynamic explosion effects.

@Everyone else:

I haven't used the engines in this pack as I have a very different scheme for them. However, I'm having some trouble with what stats I should give the engines to balance them realistically and not OP them compared to say BobCat's Soviet Engine Pack(which is great BTW).

Here is a list of my engine resizes that I'm not sure what to do with:

AIES Galaxy-VR [os => 1m]

AIES MODC-2 [os => 0.5m] ~ This one is more or less the right size and thrust anyway though.

KW Vesta VR-1 [1.25m => 2m]

KW Maverick-D [1.25m => 2m]

KW WildCat-V [1.25m => 2m]

KW Service Propulsion System [2.5m => 3m]

KW Vesta VR-9D [2.5m => 3m]

KW Maverick-V [2.5m => 3m]

KW Griffon G8-D [2.5m => 3m]

KW WildCat-XR [3.75m => 4m]

KW Titan-T1 [3.75 => 4m]

KW Griffon XX [3.75 => 4m]

I want these engines to be balanced out with BobCat's Soviet Engines and serve slightly different TWR and efficiency roles. I'm no expert on the mathematics behind engine thrust ratios etc in relation to their exhaust nozzles and chamber pressures. Thus I really don't know what to set the stats to on the re-sized engines.

P.S. Does anyone know where I can find some J-2X or J-2 engines? Or for that matter separate Merlin 1D(in both atmospheric and vacuum configuration? in addition just some good engine parts?(how is NovaPunch on the realism scale with RSS and related mods?)

Thanks for being an awesome community of realism modders and players guys!

[NathanKell]

ANWRocketMan: I have only an empirical method of generating realistic engine stats. But it is a method...

Grab the sheet from this post. It's what I use to generate the engine configs.

Then, for each engine you want untouched (i.e. stock), delete the name in column C. For those you want to change, edit the scaling info in the Extra column (S). Then set the appropriate tech level and type. Then use IspSLM and IspVM to change the Isp Multipliers. Then set thrust as desired. Finally, look in column AB, for TWRG, or Goal TWR. Change mass so the TWR matches this. Finally, you can set up to three fuel types for the engines; the first will be the default. Fuel type abbreviations are in EngineConsts. The numbers after the fuel types are the mixture ratios (mass of Ox : mass of Fuel).

When done, paste the MM Formula column (AE) into your Engines.cfg (or RftSEngines.cfg).

There are more docs for a prior version of this here.

For KW's role, I suggest "American" engines: the kerolox ones have lower Isp and somewhat higher TWR than the Soviet ones, and the higher-efficiency ones are hydrolox. SPS is obviously NTO/AZ-50.

I too dearly want some J-2(S/X) engines. IIRC Tiberion said something like that was coming in the next NP? And more realistic engines in general (WITHOUT the giant bottom-quarter-of-fuel-tank adapters that people always stick on the engines) would be awesome.

NP engines are a bit more generic than KW, but quite good looking. I use them heavily, especially since they have great variety.

Edited November 24, 2013 by NathanKell

[AbeS]

Nathan I know the Mk1 has an integrated one, I meant: Are there 0.5M, 1M, 2M, 3M heatshields?

[ChronicSilence]

ChronicSilence: StretchyTanks is a required mod for this. But yes, you are expected to use, for example, a LV-909 or Poodle as your OME at the base of a 4m tank; service modules don't need much thrust.

So what kind of engine would you recommend using with a rocket the same diameter as a 3-kerbal pod for the first stage, since none of the engines are the same diameter as the pod?

[MAKC]

So what kind of engine would you recommend using with a rocket the same diameter as a 3-kerbal pod for the first stage, since none of the engines are the same diameter as the pod?

If the engine you want is slightly larger than your rocket you could put a Procedural Fairings interstage adapter at the bottom of the tank, resize so it fits the tank, press G to turn on crossfeed, attach the engine underneath it and shape the fairings so the base of your rocket flares out to meet the engine. If the engine is smaller you can do the same but flip the interstage fairing base upside down so the rocket narrows down to meet the engine underneath. Or you could try using several smaller engines.

[NathanKell]

AbeS: Ah. Right.

ChronicSilence: What engines do you have available? How much of a service module are you toting with the Mk1-2 pod? If you're lifting ~15t (Pod + LES + 6t SM/engine combo) you'll want something like 7-8MN of thrust. Assuming RSS, obviously. So you probably want a 6m core stage (or so) and maybe 3 Mainsails under it. Or you could do a core with boosters in 3m each, then a 3m upper stage, and an outward-fairing around the pod (like Soyuz).

If you have engine addons, you might want to use the Maverick V (if you run an efficient rocket) or the NP Quad Bronco (if you don't, and want higher TWR). Those are 4 and 6m, respectively, but can be used on a Stretchy of any size (just like any engine can).