[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[AlonzoTG]

Version control hell.

Hey, i'm trying to put together a "conquor and colonize" dmp server. Many packages use different versions of KSP API extensions. The version you require throws an error message on load, which is not good so I want to avoid that by using an alternate version. Unfortunately, your code is hard locked to that version and will not work without it. (the menu does not display, I am 83% sure this is the root cause). So in order to minimize redundancy on my server, I want to eliminate as many similar files and parts as possible. Can you plz look into making a new build that is less of a version control .... about this dependency?

[rabidninjawombat]

rabidninjawombat, it would probably be a good idea to start a separate thread in the Add on development forum for the conversion. That way we remove the discussion of the conversion to there, which should both provide a place to direct users and mitigate the technical support questions showing up here.

Done and done Was planning on doing it, just ran out of time last night, and had to work today, Doing so now.

Thread can be found here

Edited August 6, 2014 by rabidninjawombat

[Sokar408]

Does it somehow detect if Kethane is installed? Because I'm using a conversion mod to make this compatible with Karbonite, and I don't want the mod to sudden make rockets/stuff for free.

[taniwha]

Sokar408: yes, and the kethane check is hardcoded (I might add Karbonite in the next version). However, in non-career mode (sandbox or science), you are given an option to force resource usage if Kethane is not present (for a new save). In career mode, resource usage is always forced. If you want to check, open up your persistent.sfs, look for ExSettings and ensure ForceResourceUse is set to True.

[Yondas (DK)]

All new to this mod, but i gotta say this brings up tons of possibilities for me

Thanks for the great mod!

[Booots]

Do you have any idea how much precision equipment costs? The price goes through the roof the bigger the item gets.

Also, 750k is peanuts when you consider that you need to buy at most one, if that. And then when you consider what you can do with that one workshop

EL's parts are very expensive because of what they enable in the game: financial independence.

That makes sense, however it's also a little bit economy-breaking. Going from a cost/mass standpoint, it's still the highest out there with the exception of science parts. For very little metal (and without sticking hundreds of Gravioli sensors to a hull), one can very rapidly finance their space program by building workshops and recovering them for cash. By building these, the price of metal goes from 800/ton to 50000/ton (give or take losses in processing), which I think far outstrips the cost of precision engineering. Especially when the build time is based off mass.

Anyway, that's my viewpoint. I can always module manager my own install. Another way to solve the economy problem could be to make the build time based off cost instead of mass (or a combination of the two).

[taniwha]

Yeah, the recovery value of a workshop is quite high, but you'll find that many aerodynamics parts are not so far off, and one is even higher.

[bill@taniwha ~/ksp/KSP_linux/GameData/Squad/Parts/Aero]
$ for f in */*.cfg; do echo -n "$f "; grep "^\s*\(cost\|mass\)\s*=" "$f" | sed -e 's/[^=]*=\s*//' -e 's/\s$//' | (read cost; read mass; python -c "print $cost / (1.0 * $mass)"); done
Ailerons/part.cfg 17500.0
CanardController/part.cfg 18000.0
NoseCone/part.cfg 8000.0
advancedCanard/part.cfg 20000.0
airplaneTail/part.cfg 1687.5
deltaWing/part.cfg 9714.28571429
noseConeAdapter/part.cfg 1066.66666667
rocketNoseCone/part.cfg 1125.0
smallCtrlSrf/part.cfg 55000.0
standardNoseCone/part.cfg 1800.0
sweptWing/part.cfg 12400.0
tailfin/part.cfg 30000.0
wingConnector/part.cfg 11200.0
winglet/part.cfg 10000.0
winglet2/part.cfg 32000.0
winglet3/part.cfg 30000.0

Or thy the following in Gamedata/Squad/Parts (and laugh at the rapier and aerospike):

for f in */*/*.cfg; do echo -n "$f "; grep "^\s*\(cost\|mass\)\s*=" "$f" | sed -e 's/[^=]*=\s*//' -e 's/\s$//' | (read cost; read mass; python -c "print $cost / (1.0 * $mass)"); done

The ram intake looks to be a good thing to build at $268k/t

[Booots]

Yeah, the recovery value of a workshop is quite high, but you'll find that many aerodynamics parts are not so far off, and one is even higher.

Or thy the following in Gamedata/Squad/Parts (and laugh at the rapier and aerospike):

The ram intake looks to be a good thing to build at $268k/t

Wow, I'm impressed with your code. Here I was spending three hours to get a python script to do that same thing. But does yours pipe it to excel?

The only thing is that those parts are all fairly low mass and so to build a vessel for recovery that takes advantage of the cost/mass, you have to attach hundreds of those parts, which should dissuade most people from doing that. With one high-value part, it makes it that much easier to crash the economy.

[taniwha]

Crushing the economy sounds like a good idea.

Really, the problem is in KSP's recovery mechanism. You can either have something be "cheap" and not have a high recovery value, or it can be "expensive" and have a high recovery value. So the choice is to have an "inexpensive" workshop that breaks the economy because you can build things for free, or you can have an "expensive" workshop that breaks the economy because you can build workshops and recover them for crazy amounts. I'd rather go with the second option as it forces the player to earn the right to break the economy.

Actually, the real problem lies not in the price of the workshop nor even in KSP's recovery mechanism, but rather that RocketParts, Metal, and Ore are available in infinite supply from KSC. The solution is then simple: set isTweakable to false for those resources. And if you use MFT, the appropriate tank definitions should have fillable set to false, too.

[edit]Misread "crash" as "crush", but I don't feel like correcting my mistake (though I though I should point out I made one).

Edited August 9, 2014 by taniwha

[impyre]

I'm thinking about maybe adding this mod to my repertoire, but I'm on the fence. Mainly, I'm concerned that this mod will make the Sol system much more readily accessible. Part of the allure (for me) is that these distant places can be so hard to get to. Won't it take some of the fun out? What is the balancer to keep me from just installing launchpads everywhere? You mentioned the economy breaking, and possibly preventing that by changing configs... if you change the configs, does it change the way EL plays in a drastic way?

[taniwha]

impyre: installing even just one launchpad is actually quite the undertaking, and adds whole new elements of fun to the game (especially if you mix in Infernal Robtics and Kerbal Attachment System): base building suddenly has meaning, and becomes an goal in itself. Mix in USI and TAC-LS, and things should be even more interesting (I haven't had a chance to try those out yet).

Yes, EL will make it easier to get places (you won't need to launch insane ships from Kerbin's surface), but there's a very big problem with playing without something like EL: what do you do when you get there? Space travel is months of boredom followed by five minutes of stark raving madness inducing terror, and all for what? Collect a bit of science and go home? Or is that months of stark raving madness inducing boredom followed by five minutes of terror?

Economy breaking: economies, like arbitrary rules, are there to be broken A more serious answer: the config changes I suggested will make it so you must launch something (even if just a suitable rover) to get ore, which you then convert to metal (or "sell"), and then conver the metal to rockets parts (or sell for more), and then use the rocket parts to build ships (or sell for more), and if you sell ships (especially with workshops), you make a killing. TBH, I don't see that as breaking the economy, but rather working it to your advantage by cutting out the middle men and becoming financially independent. They say you'll never get rich working for somebody else, and that's essentially what the contract system is: working for somebody else.

The best way to keep things balanced is to force resource usage: play in career mode, install Kethane (playing without Kethane (or some other way to get resources locally (Karbonite)) is probably really difficult for distant bases), or select "always use resources" when starting a new non-career game. Also, using progressive builds helps balance things further: you need lots of kerbals to build quickly, and if you use a life-support mod, that adds more challenge to the project.

EL doesn't necessarily make things any easier, just very different, especially since (at this stage: I have plans) you need to ship extra Kerbals from Kerbin.

Edited August 10, 2014 by taniwha

[Jagzeplin]

well said bro. thanks for EPL. wouldnt ever play KSP without it

[eevenson]

How do you go EVA from the orbital workshop? Jeb went in and has disappeared!!

[Jagzeplin]

you gotta hover mouse over the little doorway thing or its vicinity till you see a kerbal name and then u should be able to EVA him out

Edit- actually you may need to right click a bunch on it. been a bit since i used one of those and the mods were updated a lot since then

Edited August 10, 2014 by Jagzeplin

[qthk]

I have a quick question. Is that the recycle bin must be attached directly on the construction ship but not anywhere on the whole superstructure?

Since I try put the recycle on the superstructure but not on the construction ship, it does not recycle at all

[eevenson]

@Jagzeplin: no joy. This is all I see:

[taniwha]

eevenson: zoom in a bit, and wave your mouse over/around that darker blue hatch until you get a "Crew Hatch" tool-tip, then left-click.

[dzikakulka]

Great work taniwha, another reason to expand your space empire!

I have few questions, if I'd like to have a 'lite' version, which parts can I delete? I have real clogged part menu when building and issues with PartsCatalog just force me to leave only what I need. I get that this mod could utilize it's main features withot Kerbal Rocket Workshop, Runway, Launch Pad 2 and recyclers ? As far as I tested, Orbital Dock does the same. I already know that I can safely... disable mining parts leaving me with rocketpart shipments, but just to be sure, are mentioned parts necessary for some aspect? It would be sad to be left missing one important part with whole contraption on Eve orbit

Also, do I need to control the vessel so construction continues? I tried to search 'wait' and 'focus' but I hate this forum search system.

[eevenson]

taniwha: I get the "Crew Hatch" tool-tip, but nothing happens when I left-click.

[Oicani]

Is this going to be converted to be compatible with Karbonite any time soon?

[taniwha]

dzikakulka: recyclers will make shipping supplies a little easier, but otherwise, everything you listed can be removed. Same goes for any storage you don't need. Currently, yes, you must be in control of the ship (or within physics range) for building to continue. I agree this is inconvenient, but I want to get the un-focused construction right first time rather than thrashing around with various designs.

eevenson: Weird. It works just fine for me (tested just now).

Oicani: I have no plans for such. However, some others have been working on it and I have given some advice to them (you'll find discussion of such earlier in the thread). I believe there may be a thread dedicated to the topic.

Edited August 11, 2014 by taniwha

[undercoveryankee]

Is this going to be converted to be compatible with Karbonite any time soon?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89774-24-2-ExtraPlanetary-Launchpads%28EPL%29-Karbonite-Adaptation

[impyre]

impyre: installing even just one launchpad is actually quite the undertaking, and adds whole new elements of fun to the game (especially if you mix in Infernal Robtics and Kerbal Attachment System): base building suddenly has meaning, and becomes an goal in itself. Mix in USI and TAC-LS, and things should be even more interesting (I haven't had a chance to try those out yet)...

I suppose I'll have to try it out. Thanks for the response.

[Starstrider42]

I have a quick question. Is that the recycle bin must be attached directly on the construction ship but not anywhere on the whole superstructure?

Since I try put the recycle on the superstructure but not on the construction ship, it does not recycle at all

Recycle bin can be placed anywhere. However, you need to right-click on it and activate it (this is a safety feature to keep it from devouring things by accident).

[Claytheyeti]

Can someone help me? Whenever I try to use this mod, it crashes when I try to load the game. Halfway through the game loading, it stops on a part from this mod and the game crashes.