Mystique Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 @Mystique5.0.0 introduced the idea of skilled workers. I am unsure if the ETA takes that into account. Do you have any levelled engineers in your workshop?I have 6 2-star engineers in workshop, all of minimal or zero stupidity. Workshops shows something like 53 productivity. They already built few vessels, don't know if it affects build rate. Anyway, issue is that build progresses at correct speed only when I'm controlling the dock, otherwise it's slowed down to almost a complete stop (at least for ships that require like 15k rocket parts, which is not so small). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Nice to see that NASA uses a right-handed system (I hate unity's left-handed system). Unfortunately, I have to stick with the LHS for my description or I'll confuse myself.Ok, I have verified that the survey station averages all of a site's stakes to find the center, but if Origin stakes are present, it then sets the center to the average of the Origin stakes (I guess I wasn't feeling that sadistic).Once the survey station has set the center, it goes on to find the orientation.If the Y axis has not been staked out, then it will, without fail, be the local vertical (ie, directly along the radial vector from the center of the celestial body through the center of the site). Local ground slope is ignored. The XZ plane is horizontal.If neither X nor Z has been staked out, then the X axis is set to point east. This will not work at the poles (which way is east? Every direction is either south or north). The Z axis is then set to point south. This is the same orientation for rockets on the pad at KSC.If only X has been staked out, then the X axis is set to point in the same direction, and the Z axis will be at 3 o'clock (if the X axis is 12 o'clock) when viewed from above.If only Z has been staked out, then it is a similar story, but the Z axis is 12 o'clock pointing in the same direction and the X axis is 9 o'clock.If both X and Z have been staked out, then the errors for the X and Z axes will be balanced, though X might be reversed if you get the placement wrong. The Y axis is still vertically up.[*]If the Y axis has been staked out, but the X axis has not, then the X axis will be the local vertical. The YZ plane is horizontal.If the Z axis has not been staked out, then it will be pointed at 3 o'clock with the Y axis at 12 o'clock.If the Z axis has been staked out, then the Y and Z axis errors will be balanced.[*]If both the Y axis and the X axis have been staked out, but the Z axis has not, then the Z axis will be the local vertical, and the XY plane will be horizontal.The X and Y axis errors will be balanced.[*]If all three axes have been staked out, then I hope you know what you are doing. All three axis errors will be balanced. Used carefully, this might be useful on extreme slopes, or maybe in the vicinity of a Mun arch.Note: it is intended that the vessel is built flat. It is not accidental behavior, and it is why I modified the launch clamps.- - - Updated - - -Mystique: do you have sufficient RocketParts storage for the build to progress far while you are away? The build works "in the background", but resource conversions do not. This is why I kept the various converters unrealistically fast. Edited January 25, 2015 by taniwha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystique Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Mystique: do you have sufficient RocketParts storage for the build to progress far while you are away? The build works "in the background", but resource conversions do not. This is why I kept the various converters unrealistically fast.I'm not using mining-melting stuff part of the mod (I tried to use kethane a while ago, but just proved to myself that I'm too lazy to perform so many actions just to refuel a ship ), so I just have about 26-30k of RocketParts in storage, which is more than enough for this specific ship (it required 15k, IIRC).P.S. Just a wild guess - can dock's orbit altitude affect things somehow? Like it's on 80 km LKO, which doesn't allow much of time warp, but when I warp from KSC or other vessel on much higher altitude - I'm using high warp values. I know that in this case dock is on rails and shouldn't be affected by altitude limit, but you know, just a guess =\ Edited January 25, 2015 by Mystique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Altitude is irrelevant. If you watch your dock in map view while in high warp (from the tracking station or another vessel), you will see it zipping around Kerbin at the expected (high) rate. At this time, EL just checks when it last did any work when the vessel is loaded and applies the work for that timespan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow.blade Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Im having an issue where, I build a ship in orbit, then click "finalize build" then "Release", but it doesnt actually release the ship. It just sits there on the launch pad still "connected" to it (I know this because I turned the entire orbital building station and the ship was stuck to the launch pad. Also tried firing the ships thrusters and it moved the entire station.) Anyone else have this issue?I get the same issue:Ii can perfectly build a ship, but when I hit "release", it is stuck. This happens not only in orbit but also when using an "extraplanetary" launchpad on kerbin. I tried playing around a little bit in order to locate the problem but haven't been successfull. It seems to depend partially on the ship you're trying to launch. For example when I try to launch the stock ion-powered spaceprobe, it gets stuck. But when I remove the radioisotope generators, it doesn't get stuck. But it isn't completely reproducible: I had a ship that got stuck in one savegame but not in another one. BTW: I am using EL with OKS/MKS - so maybe it's because of the alternative launchpads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 BTW: I am using EL with OKS/MKS - so maybe it's because of the alternative launchpads?This is quite possible. EL uses a special transform (specifiable in the part.cfg: check the OrbitalDock part.cfg) to determine where to place the built craft such that the root part is centered over the transform and the lowest point on the craft lies (ie, it will never be below the transform). If there is no such transform, or it is not specified, then EL uses the part's origin. Unless SpawnHeightOffset (see launchpad2's part.cfg) is set appropriately (distance from part origin to pad surface, or slightly greater), the craft may well spawn clipped into the pad. The results from there are unpredictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felson Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 @taniwhaOk. I get how it is supposed to work now, but I still don't see how I can use that to safely build on ground with a non-zero slope. If I change Y, it will just lay down my vessel. There is no way I can see to change roll/pitch by 5 degrees of some such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Two hints: 1) the lowest point on your craft will be level with the center (Origin) point. 2) Launch clamps (I spent several weeks getting them working for a reason). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felson Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 1) Ya... That was the problem... 2) WOW Just WOW... I had never even considered using them. Didn't see it in the thread anywhere. I feel like a knob... Obvious, intuitive, and from a user perspective, simple. Good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarfster Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Trying to get my head around how to use this.Let's say I have a hitchhiker can with a 3 star engineer, it is connected to a big pile of rocketparts.Can I then build something? How do I spawn/launch it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainDreamer Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Trying to get my head around how to use this.Let's say I have a hitchhiker can with a 3 star engineer, it is connected to a big pile of rocketparts.Can I then build something? How do I spawn/launch it?You then need a place for them to build it, like a workshop(I think hitchhiker can work like a less efficient workshop too?), and then a place where they can put the result out, like a launch pad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Felson: I figured that 1 might have been giving you trouble.Snarfster: If it's just a hitchhiker can, you need a pad (or orbital dock). If it's the Survey Station (looks the same because I cloned the part: I was out of energy for creating one), you need to place survey stakes. 1 star is sufficient for engineers that aren't too stupid (depends on courage too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarfster Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thanks for that info taniwha.So if I have an MKS C3 module (which I've heard doubles as a survey station) I place the survey stakes and the ship or item will, after building appear in there?- - - Updated - - -In space I'd need a launchpad like thing? (Can't use the stakes in space, I assume?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Stakes can be used only when landed. Mustn't encourage kerbals to go around poking holes in their ships Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystique Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 So is there any chance of fixing background build or I'm the only one with this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felson Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 ok. New problem for me. I have 2 stakes set to Origin. No other stakes paced anywhere. When I finalize build, the vessel shows up correctly where it should between the stakes, then suddenly relocates to the survey station that it was built at, in a "not quite" random orientation. The "not quite" part is that it is the same no matter how many times I try, but it is not the same as the stakes, or the station, and none of the axis are directly vertical. Built from SPH. I mention that, because I had the same issue about a month ago when I first started using this mod, and switching to use Sub-Assembly parts only seemed to fix it for me.- - - Updated - - -Ok. I can confirm that building the same craft from Sub-Assembly plans worked, and SPH would not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Um, do I need to do anything special to get this to work with karbonite or will it work out of the box, so to speak? I'm asking because I want to get this, but at the same time can't decide between the two resource mods. I would get both if kethane was updated to 0.90 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow.blade Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) the craft may well spawn clipped into the pad. The results from there are unpredictable.Thanks for the fast response.The newly built ship is standing freely in space/air in front of the shipyard. So it doesn't seem like a clipping problem. But I'll take a look at the configs see whether I can find a cause for the problem there.*UPDATE: * it turned out to be a Kerbal Joint Reinforcements Bug which was fixed in the meanwhile Edited April 12, 2015 by shadow.blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenpsp Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Um, do I need to do anything special to get this to work with karbonite or will it work out of the box, so to speak? I'm asking because I want to get this, but at the same time can't decide between the two resource mods. I would get both if kethane was updated to 0.90 though.Um, it's laid out in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The karbonite adaptation page sounded like it was now included, somehow, no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Felson: I have yet to have any trouble with craft built in the SPH, VAB, or subassemblies. I guess get me the simplest stock SPH craft that demonstrates the problem. If it requires a mod part to trigger the problem, suspect the mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felson Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 LOL I think the only stock part on the vessels I am trying to build is the docking port. The simplest one is using the base and drill from USI, Struts from B9, and a tank that I made using a USI model. The part I made is rather simple, just the USI tank (White cardboard tube) set to be equivalent to it's max settings with tweekscale, and Proxy Logistics module added to it. I do have a question about distance though. I think read that it is 100m? I was trying to place the object about 70m out. I noticed that when I do try to build something over 100m out, but within the 2km render range, it behaves exactly like I described regardless of plan type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 How do I make the 'build resource' box in the VAB/SPH go away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) How do I make the 'build resource' box in the VAB/SPH go away?Click the EPL button in the taskbar. Left or right click, I don't remember. I did it a long time ago and haven't clicked it since Edited January 29, 2015 by 5thHorseman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Felson: Oh, good grief. I should have thought to ask that. Yes, the limit is 100m (to the nearest stake of the site). Unfortunately, there is currently no indication that the survey station could not find a site. I am, actually, working on this. Not only that, but selected sites will be properly highlighted (ie, all stakes in the site will be highlighted, not just one), I am seriously considering color coding the highlights (red/green/blue for XYZ, I haven't decided on Origin's color yet), and it will be possible to choose the site when there is more than one site within range.5thHorseman: I noticed you're not using KerbalStats (I won't say how I know, as that would give away the easter egg). If you do use it, kerbals in the blue EL workshop* will gain time-based experience, and even the worst kerbals will become productive (semi-redundant when stock exp is high enough), and other kerbals will improve too. *Take a look at ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads/seat_tasks.cfg (and KerbalStats/seat_tasks.cfg) to see how to make other parts give Workshop experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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