[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[sashan]

Are there any better models for orbital dock? Or at least a better texture.

Same for recycler.

Edited March 6, 2015 by sashan

[smjjames]

Are there any better models for orbital dock? Or at least a better texture.

Same for recycler.

RoverDudes orbital dock maybe? Theres a few other mods (such as the multipurpose colony modules for MKS/OKS which have a spacedock/stardock/orbitaldock in them.

Not sure if this is an EPL problem or an USI problem, or both, I've noticed that when I make something with EPL that has EnrichedUranium (RoverDudes reactors, specifically), it seems to produce the EnrichedUranium out of nowhere because it's not taking from the reactors that I already have on base. So, I effectively have a free source of EnrichedUranium. I've only noticed it with the HoneyBadger reactor from FTT because I haven't actually tested with the other three PDUs (two from MKS/OKS and another from FTT) yet.

I should note that I don't have MKSs science lab, which I believe is needed to convert uranite into enriched uranium in the first place.

Edited March 6, 2015 by smjjames
whoop, wrong resource

[beeble42]

@taniwha Thanks for the quick work. Much appreciated.

[RoverDude]

Just bear in mind that MKS is more of a workflow change vs. a model change (and if you use them, pester me for your first level support).

The IXS warp ship mod has some lovely models as well for docks

[Van Disaster]

That's the biggest KASA spacedock ( I believe that's the IXS mod Roverdude mentioned, but I can't remember because that's all I have installed ). I can't remember if it needs configuring for EPL, but it'd be pretty simple to do if it didn't come like that.

Can't help with orbital recyclers - my old launchpad also doubles as a ground recycler ( given ground launchpads are useless after stakes at least there's *something* for it to do ) but I've nothing other than the skip for space yet.

[Tarheel1999]

RoverDudes orbital dock maybe? Theres a few other mods (such as the multipurpose colony modules for MKS/OKS which have a spacedock/stardock/orbitaldock in them.

Not sure if this is an EPL problem or an USI problem, or both, I've noticed that when I make something with EPL that has EnrichedUranium (RoverDudes reactors, specifically), it seems to produce the EnrichedUranium out of nowhere because it's not taking from the reactors that I already have on base. So, I effectively have a free source of EnrichedUranium. I've only noticed it with the HoneyBadger reactor from FTT because I haven't actually tested with the other three PDUs (two from MKS/OKS and another from FTT) yet.

I should note that I don't have MKSs science lab, which I believe is needed to convert uranite into enriched uranium in the first place.

Enriched Uranium is a NO_FLOW resource like Spare Parts. EPL charges you Rocket Parts for the mass of NO_FLOW resources. To do otherwise may create incompatibilities with mods that use NO_FLOW resources but do not have any mechanism for transferring NO_FLOW resources. For example, I have not used DangIt but I think you are stuck with the amount of spare parts you launch with. Even were that not true, I imagine there are or will be mods that NO_FLOW is equivalent to no transfer. FWIW, in my opinion it is not worth excluding players of mods with NO_FLOW resources without a means of transferring those resources from using EPL to build crafts to cater to a certain play style or to prevent any potential exploitation of this functionality.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Tarheel1999

[Superfluous J]

5thHorseman: darn, I wish you had posted 45 minutes earlier, then this stuff could have gotten into 5.1.1.

Stupid work making me work.

I thought the quip would be clear enough, I guess I was wrong... While I see your point, I'm the sort of person that hands you a bazooka and says "be careful or you'll take off a foot (and the rest of your leg with it)".

This was actually the biggest problem, you handed me a bazooka and said "See this button, here? This is a button." I didn't read the warning as a warning, just as flavor text. So I pushed the button

I'm rather tired right now

Totally understand that one. I spend a lot of my life tired (I went to bed 5 hours ago)

This is actually pretty easy: just step back to the building state in cancel mode (and then "ah, no, I do want that after all" is just a click away

Just to be clear, this is easy for you to do in code, or easy to do in the mod already? I didn't see an option in any screen

I have wanted your feedback for quite some time.

I had to really sink my teeth into it first and I just got to that point Just knowing this stuff will make future endeavors easier for sure, but as I have problems I will for sure complain report here

[LambertStrether]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but I got some seriously unbalanced contracts. Before I had even completed the orbit Kerbin mission I got three contracts with advances of several million, plus 10k+ science points with a 10% commitment to outsourced R&D. I was able to upgrade nearly every building to max level and research most of the tech tree while holding on to about 4 million dollars. The contracts aren't particularly hard, either: test [Extraplanetary Launchpads part] on a suborbital trajectory. The only tricky thing is they short-ish deadlines, but as noted above, I now have access to every engine in the game.

[goldenpsp]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but I got some seriously unbalanced contracts. Before I had even completed the orbit Kerbin mission I got three contracts with advances of several million, plus 10k+ science points with a 10% commitment to outsourced R&D. I was able to upgrade nearly every building to max level and research most of the tech tree while holding on to about 4 million dollars. The contracts aren't particularly hard, either: test [Extraplanetary Launchpads part] on a suborbital trajectory. The only tricky thing is they short-ish deadlines, but as noted above, I now have access to every engine in the game.

I don't believe the EPL mod has anything to do with the contracts that are generated. That would be something for the contract system.

[smjjames]

Enriched Uranium is a NO_FLOW resource like Spare Parts. EPL charges you Rocket Parts for the mass of NO_FLOW resources. To do otherwise may create incompatibilities with mods that use NO_FLOW resources but do not have any mechanism for transferring NO_FLOW resources. For example, I have not used DangIt but I think you are stuck with the amount of spare parts you launch with. Even were that not true, I imagine there are or will be mods that NO_FLOW is equivalent to no transfer. FWIW, in my opinion it is not worth excluding players of mods with NO_FLOW resources without a means of transferring those resources from using EPL to build crafts to cater to a certain play style or to prevent any potential exploitation of this functionality.

i see. I didn't know what was going on there with the enriched uranium and it makes sense now.

Also, while you technically are stuck with the spare parts you launch with, one of the MK3 modules does make spare parts (although there is now a scrap function that can be used as well), and you sort of transfer them by performing maintainence.

[LambertStrether]

I don't believe the EPL mod has anything to do with the contracts that are generated. That would be something for the contract system.

Thanks! I'm not sure how these things work to be honest. Obviously one solution is, you know, don't take those contracts, but if it had to do with the mod I thought it was best to report it.

[GreenWolf]

Hey, sorry if this question has been asked before, but this is a 244 page thread. What exactly does this mod use KerbalStats for? Will it still work properly without it installed? What kind of functionality would I be missing if I didn't have it?

[Tarheel1999]

i see. I didn't know what was going on there with the enriched uranium and it makes sense now.

Also, while you technically are stuck with the spare parts you launch with, one of the MK3 modules does make spare parts (although there is now a scrap function that can be used as well), and you sort of transfer them by performing maintainence.

Yes MKS provides the ability to both create and transfer spare parts with custom code. But I was not referring to MKS but to other mods that use NO_FLOW resources.

[RoverDude]

And side not guys - do me a favor and any questions regarding an EL install with MKS/OKS alongside of it, ask in the MKS thread *first* so we don't pollute Taniwha's thread.

It helps him with a cleaner thread, helps me spot any trends and provide you better support, and helps you because the MKS thread is going to have folks who are, poster for poster, better equipped to solve your support issue.

[smjjames]

I did post both here and in MKS since I didn't know what was going on with it or which mod it could be.

[RoverDude]

No worries Just if in doubt try to get an answer from the MKS/OKS folks first. It's a pretty brisk thread

(Edit)

And in your case, turns out that one was weird in that it was an EL consideration (fuel flow) coupled with MKS having no_flow stuff.

So that was more of a general statement not for you specifically.

[taniwha]

Just to be clear, this is easy for you to do in code, or easy to do in the mod already? I didn't see an option in any screen

Easy for me to code.

I don't know if this has been brought up, but I got some seriously unbalanced contracts. Before I had even completed the orbit Kerbin mission I got three contracts with advances of several million, plus 10k+ science points with a 10% commitment to outsourced R&D. I was able to upgrade nearly every building to max level and research most of the tech tree while holding on to about 4 million dollars. The contracts aren't particularly hard, either: test [Extraplanetary Launchpads part] on a suborbital trajectory. The only tricky thing is they short-ish deadlines, but as noted above, I now have access to every engine in the game.

I have not done anything for EL test contracts, and I have never received one while playing. This must be some other mod adding contracts to EL.

Hey, sorry if this question has been asked before, but this is a 244 page thread. What exactly does this mod use KerbalStats for? Will it still work properly without it installed? What kind of functionality would I be missing if I didn't have it?

EL uses KerbalStats for two non-critical things, though one affects gameplay:

• On top of KSP's deed-based experience system, EL uses KerbalStats' time-based experience system to improve kerbals' productivity. See this post for graphs showing its effect.
  
• There is an "easter egg" in the astronaut complex. This is how I know that 5thHorseman (at least up to ep 20) is not using KerbalStats
  

Other than that, KerbalStats has no effect and is purely optional. However, the base viability improving mod I'm working on (related to that easter egg) will have KerbalStats as a critical dependency and is, in fact, being developed in the KerbalStats tree (but will be a separate dll in the end), though I have pushed no code yet.

Speaking of easter eggs, there is another one in EL's survey system. Nobody has reported finding either one

Edited March 6, 2015 by taniwha

[RoverDude]

I believe it was TAC-LS causing new contracts to appear btw

[Superfluous J]

There is an "easter egg" in the astronaut complex. This is how I know that 5thHorseman (at least up to ep 20) is not using KerbalStats

Speaking of easter eggs, there is another one in EL's survey system. Nobody has reported finding either one

Regarding KerbalStats, I keep forgetting to install it

Regarding easter eggs, I am super dense so there's almost no chance I'll see either one. I don't think I'd know about the abandoned runway or KSC monolith if I hadn't seen them on YouTube.

[Tarheel1999]

I believe it was TAC-LS causing new contracts to appear btw

Yes, TAC-LS adds a part test module to most crewed parts. You can prevent those contracts from coming up deleting the appropriate MM patch from TAC-LS. I think the name of the config is similar to "AddPartTest". However, I'm not sure the MM patch has anything to do with the imbalanced nature of the contracts. I think that might just be stock wackiness.

[taniwha]

I can accept that. Is it true that survey stakes go with every pad?

Could I request several enhancements, to make this less confusing for new people who will likely do what I did?

1. Drop the "pad 0" and "pad 1" naming scheme and use the ship name. This way I'll instantly know if I'm not selecting the correct pad. If a ship has 2 pads it should be "Ship Name 0
   and "Ship Name 1".
   
2. Highlight the selected pad in the game. This will further help.
   
3. If a pad has no actual launch pad on it, there should be a warning before you start to build. It doesn't have to be a popup, just a "This pad cannot finalize a build! You'll need to use survey stakes for that" somewhere. Say, where it would say "where should I put it, Boss?"
   
4. If you're finalizing at a "pad" that has no viable building sites, finalizing should simply not be an option. The gui should tell you that there are no actual building sites here and that you'll need to deploy stakes to place the item.
   
5. Finally, in case I *still* screw it up I should still be able to cancel the build (Like I could while it was building) so at LEAST I can get the parts back and start the build anew at the correct pad.
   

It all comes down to having information, really. I thought it was a bug because there was no real information about what I was doing, how I was doing it, why I did it wrong, and how to correct it, either after the fact or next time. Had I not posted here I'd have just assumed it was broken.

I have pushed changes related to 1, 2, and 5. 5 was even easier than expected . I am still considering just what to do about 3/4 (I consider them to be the one thing). I guess there will be a 5.1.2 fairly soon.

[smjjames]

I'm confused about something, is the timer in the build phase supposed to be time to completion? Because it's definetly not since when I timewarp that amount of time, it's not complete. For the craft I'm building right now as of this posting, it's actually more like 16 days (Kerbin time) of build time.

[Kieve]

After extensive Googling, in-forum Search, and scanning over this thread page by page, I have yet to find the answer, so please pardon the foolish questions:

-How do you "disable" progressive build?

I've seen mention that it's set at the beginning of the game, but the only notice I got was for Kerbal Alarm Clock, and was about warp options.

Screenshots would be a perk. Did I install something incorrectly?

-Is there any way to disable the "Build Resources" menu that shows up in VAB/SPH? Or at least toggle it on/off? I'm tired of moving the bloody thing out of the way all the time.

Great mod overall, but readme / documentation leaves a bit to be desired here.

[smjjames]

After extensive Googling, in-forum Search, and scanning over this thread page by page, I have yet to find the answer, so please pardon the foolish questions:

-How do you "disable" progressive build?

I've seen mention that it's set at the beginning of the game, but the only notice I got was for Kerbal Alarm Clock, and was about warp options.

Screenshots would be a perk. Did I install something incorrectly?

-Is there any way to disable the "Build Resources" menu that shows up in VAB/SPH? Or at least toggle it on/off? I'm tired of moving the bloody thing out of the way all the time.

Great mod overall, but readme / documentation leaves a bit to be desired here. http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/Kieve/PWI/tigers/oops.gif

The build resources thing should remember it's position. I just shove it off to the bottom edge of the screen, where it pretty much stays out of the way.

As for 'disabling' progressive build, it's already been disabled in the current version, not sure how many versions ago that was made.

[Kieve]

The build resources thing should remember it's position. I just shove it off to the bottom edge of the screen, where it pretty much stays out of the way.

As for 'disabling' progressive build, it's already been disabled in the current version, not sure how many versions ago that was made.

I must be completely misunderstanding what "progressive build" is then.

After double-checking, I was using 5.0.2, now updating to 5.1.1.

The gist of the problem (with what I thought was Progressive) is build time. I have plans of absurd scale and would prefer not to spend a Kerbol millennia in time warp to see it to completion.

I do know enough that adding more Kerbals to the construction facilities will help speed things along, but the problem I'd run into there is requiring a monstrosity to build a monstrosity - and then having two supermassive structures on-screen once it was built.