[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[MarcAlain]

I've not played KSP in 4-5 months. 

 

Did things change so that if you have USI installed, it uses their production system?

 

Therefore, increasing the part count needed 2-3 times over to produce parts to build ships?

 

 

[DStaal]

Yeap.    The USI system makes sense, but it is a bit more complicated.  (It was partly developed in conjunction with OSE Workshops, which noticed that the base EL setup has a rather severe exploit available.)

[MarcAlain]

2 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Yeap.    The USI system makes sense, but it is a bit more complicated.  (It was partly developed in conjunction with OSE Workshops, which noticed that the base EL setup has a rather severe exploit available.)

Pretty annoying, considering how this limits the construction of larger stations and bases. I like mods that reduce the part count needed, not increase it

[DStaal]

Take a look at the new logistics options USI's introduced as well - you still need all the parts, but often they don't need to be part of the same base.

Anyway, this would be better discussed over there.

[goldenpsp]

25 minutes ago, MarcAlain said:

Pretty annoying, considering how this limits the construction of larger stations and bases. I like mods that reduce the part count needed, not increase it

Then don't use it.  Overall the parts needed to make the materials for EL are the same parts you would use for other aspects of an MKS base anyhow.  But yes better discussed in the MKS thread.

[MarcAlain]

2 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

Then don't use it.  Overall the parts needed to make the materials for EL are the same parts you would use for other aspects of an MKS base anyhow.  But yes better discussed in the MKS thread.

It's more about the logistics chain to turn mined material into parts usable for building things. in EPL, it's ore > metal > rocket parts > finished product. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by MarcAlain

[ebix]

Hey, I have installed EPL and several USI mods, but there is no Recycling Bin Part. Is there some interference between these two? I thought they were supposed to be compatible? I'm away from my github account, but I'll file an issue if no-one's seen this before. 

[goldenpsp]

7 hours ago, ebix said:

Hey, I have installed EPL and several USI mods, but there is no Recycling Bin Part. Is there some interference between these two? I thought they were supposed to be compatible? I'm away from my github account, but I'll file an issue if no-one's seen this before. 

It helps to peruse through threads.  About 10 posts back is your answer.  MKS hides the EPL parts as it has MKS analogs for them.  MKS doesn't have a recycling bin but it has the capability for an engineer to disassemble individual parts off a ship which recycles it, and demolition charges which will recycle multiple parts or an entire craft.

[MarcAlain]

8 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

It helps to peruse through threads.  About 10 posts back is your answer.  MKS hides the EPL parts as it has MKS analogs for them.  MKS doesn't have a recycling bin but it has the capability for an engineer to disassemble individual parts off a ship which recycles it, and demolition charges which will recycle multiple parts or an entire craft.

 

 

Well aware, been using this mod for awhile. If I remove the "hiding" off those parts though, can I get the EPL chain back, and still use MKS parts?

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, MarcAlain said:

Well aware, been using this mod for awhile. If I remove the "hiding" off those parts though, can I get the EPL chain back, and still use MKS parts?

You'll get the EL parts back, but you'll still be using the modified resource chain.  The EL parts that build/recycle will automatically update to the modified resource chain, but the hexcans and ore converters will be useless.

[MarcAlain]

What's the ideal setup for an orbital space station using MKS parts, in terms of build time and low material/specialized part usage? I'm doing a game where I have an orbital spaceyard and I build massive ships in LKO for greater colonization of the system. 

[taniwha]

The more high-end workshops filled with engineers, the better (watch out for any population controls USI adds, though). You will want facilities for recycling stuff. I don't know what USI does, so I can't give any specifics, but if you were using just EL, I would recommend some storage for ScrapMetal (though there is a small amount in the smelters), storage for Metal, and a smelter or two to melt it back into Metal. Of course, power for any converters (eg, ScrapMetal->Metal, Metal->RocketParts, but USI style, of course). A recycling bin is great, too, as you can recycle your supply ships for more Metal (or whatever USI converts them to).

[DStaal]

MKS doesn't add population controls - although USI-LS does.  So it depends on what you're doing there.  Any of the MKS-III modules are level-5 workshops, and they also hold lots of Kerbals.  The resources you'll need to build with MKS are MaterialKits and SpecilizedParts - more of the former than the latter.  (I typically build a 3:1 storage ratio, but it's not exact.  The exact ratio will depend on what you're building - high-mass low-cost parts lean towards MaterialKits, while low-mass high-cost parts lean towards SpecilizedParts.)

Personally, I wouldn't bother with refining/converting on an MKS space construction yard.  Do it on the surface, and ship it up.  (The Orbital Logistics part makes this fairly painless, without removing the cost in terms of fuel.)  MKS also hides the recycling bin, although you can fix that.  (Not that I've had much luck with the recycling bin...)  I haven't done much recycling with the latest versions of MKS, but either it turns stuff directly into MaterialKits and SpecilizedParts, or it turns them into Recyclables.  If it's the latter, the MK-III Fabricator can turn them into MaterialKits and SpecilizedParts.  (And by description is intended to be the workshop for EL.)  You might want to pair it with a Workspace, though I'm not sure if that efficiency boost applies to EL.

Smelters are hidden by MKS, and are fairly useless in conjunction with it, because they convert to unused resources.  The MK-III Fabricator does second-level conversion, so it covers that end of things.

Short version: Any MK-III part is a good workshop.  If you want to recycle in space, use the Fabricator, and add at least one Workspace.  Storage for MaterialKits and SpecilizedParts, more of the former.

[taniwha]

4 hours ago, DStaal said:

(Not that I've had much luck with the recycling bin...)

What do you mean by this?

[DStaal]

Over half the time I tried using the recycling bin, it would get stuck and stop recycling.  Either before it did anything, or partway through.  I could send someone out to clear it, but especially with USI's ability to recycle directly from EVA, I might as well just send them out to do the recycling at that point.  I did some debugging in this thread a while back, but nothing definite seemed to be the issue reliably.  (Seperators/heatshields seemed to be one trigger, but I've had it happen without either.)

Also: By the time I've built a station with a workshop, command pod, batteries, some solar panels, storage for usable resources, enough delta-v to get to the correct orbit, etc, I'm usually pushing what my ancient computer can handle without bogging down.  Add in a tug and a ship to be recycled, and I'm definitely bogging down.  So, even if it works it becomes a bit of a painful process.

Some of this might be reconsidered if I were to play an actual career game.  So far, I've been doing science-mode games as a balance between progression difficulty and just being able to do anything.  But that does mean that simply terminating debris from the tracking station has no effective cost, so the resource recovery isn't essential.  I'd like it as a realistic solution of sorts to space junk, but since it was finicky and slow, it wasn't worth it to me.

[taniwha]

4 hours ago, DStaal said:

Over half the time I tried using the recycling bin, it would get stuck and stop recycling.  Either before it did anything, or partway through.  I could send someone out to clear it, but especially with USI's ability to recycle directly from EVA, I might as well just send them out to do the recycling at that point.  I did some debugging in this thread a while back, but nothing definite seemed to be the issue reliably.  (Seperators/heatshields seemed to be one trigger, but I've had it happen without either.)

When did you test? I believe this was fixes in 5.2.94 (there certainly was a problem, caused by going from parts with more resources to parts with fewer: eg from a partially full tank to a decoupler).

[DStaal]

February or so, I think?  I could probably go back through the thread and look.  I haven't tried them in my restarted playthrough.  If you wanted me to it'd probably take a week or so before I had the ships in place to do so.

[Blargenth]

I'm having trouble getting this mod to work and I can't figure out why. Every avenue I've pursued to self troubleshoot it has led to dead ends.

I have the proper amount of rocket parts I need in orbit, as well as fuel and monopropellent. I have the construction workshop and launchpad. And I have the main 3 kerbals, Jeb, Bill, and Bob manning it (I know only one is an engineer and it drastically reduces the work speed but that's not the problem I'm having).

I set up the launchpad to build, it goes to 0.369231% done and just stops. It can't be tore-down either if I cancel the build. Its just stuck there.

I'm not sure if I have persistence build on or off. When I went to go check the save file like Taniwha suggested to someone else, I couldn't find TimeBuild under the ExSettings. So I couldn't set it to true.

 

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

Edited March 27, 2016 by Blargenth

[taniwha]

@Blargenth: That is very odd. The only time I've seen that happen is when I had multiple required resources (due to building a KIS container with batteries in it). I thought I fixed that bug a long time ago :/. If you're testing in sandbox in the big blue workshop, the main three are actually pretty decent when in the shop (Bill is level 5, and level 5 engineers enable non-engineers to contribute).

As for the timed builds option, that is long gone: EL now supports only timed builds.

[Blargenth]

18 hours ago, taniwha said:

@Blargenth: That is very odd. The only time I've seen that happen is when I had multiple required resources (due to building a KIS container with batteries in it). I thought I fixed that bug a long time ago :/. If you're testing in sandbox in the big blue workshop, the main three are actually pretty decent when in the shop (Bill is level 5, and level 5 engineers enable non-engineers to contribute).

As for the timed builds option, that is long gone: EL now supports only timed builds.

I still remember it asking me at the beginning whether I wanted timed builds or not, or something similar. I did also start the career mode before installing kerbal alarm system. I mention that because I just tried starting a new campaign, and the only prompt I got was whether kerbal alarm system should pause or just message.

 

Also bill is level 0.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Blargenth

[taniwha]

Oh, well, there's the problem: Bill has 0 productivity until he's level-2 (in a full workshop) or level-3 anywhere else, and Jeb and Bob can't contribute until there's a level-5 engineer in the part.

[ss8913]

On 3/24/2016 at 1:47 PM, MarcAlain said:

What's the ideal setup for an orbital space station using MKS parts, in terms of build time and low material/specialized part usage? I'm doing a game where I have an orbital spaceyard and I build massive ships in LKO for greater colonization of the system. 

The easy way?  Send up a station with an orbital construction dock, a UKS workshop module, and Kontainers of MaterialKits and SpecializedParts.  Put on a 2.5m nuclear reactor and some docking ports.  Now just resupply the station with launches/spaceplanes from Kerbin and you can build in space.  If you're not *at* Kerbin, I suggest doing the same as I just mentioned, but doing your mining and refining on the ground.  I believe if you do this, the MKS Orbital Logistics system will take over and 'automatically' transfer the stuff to the station, at least if you're using 3.75m or 5.00m Kontainers on the station.

[JewelShisen]

Is there please a version of this that doesn't involve the toolbar mod?

[taniwha]

There is not one. The toolbar mod is very good: it lets you put the buttons wherever you want on the screen. (that's not a "never", more just a "what's wrong with the toolbar mod?")

Oh, I should mention: I have EL mostly working in 1.1, but I've seen some issues that I need to fix before I can do a release.

[ModZero]

8 minutes ago, taniwha said:

There is not one. The toolbar mod is very good: it lets you put the buttons wherever you want on the screen. (that's not a "never", more just a "what's wrong with the toolbar mod?")

Mostly it's just a bit of a bother when it's installed just for one mod, and then some other mods change their behaviour in non-configurable ways when toolbar mod is around (for example the Haystack mod without toolbar uses a "tab" button on the bottom that I really rather like). It's not your mods fault, of course, and I never complained because on my list of annoyances it's lower than people complaining about toolbar mods.

On the other hand there's a bunch of mods with terrible icons, that can't be stashed away to specific contexts unless you use the toolbar mod. Hell is other mods :-)