[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[Crimor]

About Science Alert: I've sent a patch to xEvilReaperx, so it's just a matter of him noticing.

I'm actually very interested why this is happening from a technical standpoint, that's a really odd thing to break it. I guess it's due to the survey station having a crew report thing?

[zopper]

I'm not quite sure how this all works though, is there a compatibility check for EPL, and the mod then disables itself if it recognizes it's a 64bit game?

I looked into source code, it seems to be one simple check for 64bit. So it should be enough to comment it out and recompile the mod. But what do you need to do it, I don't know. Also I don't know if the mod don't fail due some bug immediately.

[colin_in_space]

How bad is the memory load for EPL? My ksp is running fairly stable now. I would love to try EPL in my current game, but last time I added one mid too many and heartbreak and frustration ensued.

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

When I compare KSP's memory usage with and without EPL, the difference is 43 MB. This tracks with EPL's folder size in GameData (46 MB), which is fairly large, but comparable to e.g. MKS/OKS (33 MB) and Karbonite (68 MB). It's only when several mods of this size are installed that KSP risks running into issues (a dozen megs here, a dozen megs there, and pretty soon, you're talking about real memory).

However, this is with using OpenGL as the rendering engine; I don't know how much memory it occupies when using Direct3D, which is the default on Windows. EPL and Asteroid Recycling Technologies broke my camel's back (crash during loading, output_log.txt indicates out-of-memory errors), and even after removing those, other mods that I later installed were pushing me close to the edge again, so I tried using OpenGL by adding "-force-opengl" to the shortcut's startup command in Steam. This has resulted in KSP's memory usage staying below 2.5 GB even though my GameData folder weighs in at 1.87 GB. (I've also had to add the "-popupwindow" command to the shortcut. This removes the border from around the window and puts it in front of my taskbar, so that I can run the game at full resolution without having to make my taskbar auto-hide itself, and it has had the unexpected but positive side effect of letting the game run even when I'm focused on a different window, without putting graphics-device-invalid warnings in my output log. I'm not sure why I didn't have to do this with Direct3D -- darn it, colin_in_space, I'm a rocket scientist, not a graphics programmer...)

The tradeoff, from what I understand of what others have said e.g. here, is that OpenGL (compared to Direct3D) reduces memory usage (which is limited on KSP x86) by increasing the processing power usage. My computer's processor is plenty powerful, with four cores and a recent graphics; you you will have to decide for yourself if the trade is worthwhile.

tl;dr EPL is heavy, but not the heaviest mod out there, so if KSP is staying under 3 GB already, you probably won't have trouble, and if you do have trouble, consider using OpenGL to save on memory. (Or run at lower resolutions, but the explosions are much prettier in high-definition...)

[taniwha]

I'm actually very interested why this is happening from a technical standpoint, that's a really odd thing to break it. I guess it's due to the survey station having a crew report thing?

It actually has nothing to do with the survey station.

EL loads the .craft file, and creates and initializes a vessel for the .craft so that EL can determine the resources required to build the vessel. EL then promptly destroys the vessel.

Initializing a vessel causes a new vessel event to fire and Science Alert catches this event to create a profile for the new vessel. As part of the profile creation process, the first thing SA does is to extract a unique identifier from the vessel. It is during this unique id extraction that the error occurs. It was simply an incorrect assumption about how vessels work when on-rails, which is the case when vessels are newly spawned (always).

So there's nothing I can expect if I want this to work in 64-bit? Or EPL just doesn't work in 0.25 64-bit even though it worked fine(for me) in 0.24 64-bit? Is there too much work involved to get it functional in 64bit? Can you throw me a bone here taniwha?

Edit: I'm not quite sure how this all works though, is there a compatibility check for EPL, and the mod then disables itself if it recognizes it's a 64bit game?

As zopper points out, EL disables itself. This is because 64-bit Windows KSP cannot be trusted and there is nothing any mod can do about it, and thus I refuse to support it. EL may well have worked just fine on 64-bit Windows KSP in 0.24, but things got worse in general for everyone, including Squad.

Again as zopper points out, it's simply a matter of disabling the checks. Do NOT touch Checkers.cs as that is there to remind you that you are on your own. I have, however, made the checks scattered through EL's code easy to find and remove. However, building EL is not quite so simple for Windows users (I use Linux). Out of the box, even on Linux, you need mono, gnu make, git and bash (others might work). On windows, you will also need cygwin or msys, I imagine. On top of that, EL depends on KSP API Extensions (but you already have that if you dl the EL zip). As an alternative, you can use VS, but you will have to create the project file yourself.

Yes, I'm helping a little bit, but I will not give you more details: if you are capable of building a 64-bit Windows KSP enabled EL yourself, you are capable of looking after yourself when KSP crashes or anything weird happens that cannot be reproduced in 32-bit Windows KSP (or Linux, or OSX). Essentially, this is a test. Pass and you get to (try to) use EL on 64-bit Windows KSP. Just remember that should you distribute it, the GPL requires that you make it clear that you have modified the code. EL makes this easy with its version display.

Edited November 11, 2014 by taniwha

[Kamuchi]

Gave 64bit another attempt and seeing EL not working made me cry abit.

As I`m clueless to how to recompile, a question to anyone who is bored or still attempting to run 64.

I went from a horrible crashfest 0.25 64bit to a rock solid +12 hours game play yesterday with 1 crash due to slamming a 200+ part into the runway (ksp exploded along)

Using amd cards and CCC:

Add a standard profile for the 64bit executable: disable crossfire for it.

Ksp: disable full screen

Shortcut add after the path: -popupwindow -force-d3d11-no-singlethreaded

Adding the forced no-singlethreaded in windowed mode fixed all crashes, please note, for me.

I have posted it in several places but so for not a single reply.

I also sent it to Rowsdower as *maybe* this might help finding the cause or underlying problems besides just saying "it`s Unity", if this *could* add to the crashfest, it would be simple for them to add it in the code for stability *if* it really helps improve it.

I have no idea what that command line argument does and why it works great with disabled crossfire, but it works for me.

If anyone has a clue where else to post where people are still looking for solutions I would gladly hear it, just want to share my personal findings for my system that seem to work so far

[SlimJim89]

taniwha: Actively blocking EPL useage for 64-bit and not supporting it is two different things. The guy doing TAC lifesupport doesnt support 64-bit either, but he doesn't block anyone from attempting to run 64-bit with checkers. Some succeeds with no issues, others... I guess it's tough luck.

I mean, if someone uses 64-bit, tries EPL, -it doesn't work-, he comes here bitching, can't you just ignore those individuals or refer to your first page statement, instead of blocking EPL from several understanding users? I mean the KSP community isn't that of an immature community right? Anyways, I do appreciate the answer!

[Kamuchi]

taniwha: Actively blocking EPL useage for 64-bit and not supporting it is two different things. The guy doing TAC lifesupport doesnt support 64-bit either, but he doesn't block anyone from attempting to run 64-bit with checkers. Some succeeds with no issues, others... I guess it's tough luck.

I mean, if someone uses 64-bit, tries EPL, -it doesn't work-, he comes here bitching, can't you just ignore those individuals or refer to your first page statement, instead of blocking EPL from several understanding users? I mean the KSP community isn't that of an immature community right? Anyways, I do appreciate the answer!

Just to post from a personal point of view

If modders block a version then it`s their choice.

I won`t complain when knowing there is no support but I understand the point as other people will ask for help untill asked what version they are running and they reply "64bit" out of the box without knowing it`s either unstable or try to find the cause them selfs.

I posted my previous post as I went from a crashfest version to rock solid 2 full days of playing now with only a command line parameter change, and noticed EL isn`t working.

Tried to share my finding in several places to see if it helps others so that we *maybe* help Squad find a workaround to crash causes for a stable out of the box release

If I knew how to compile then I`d have made a person change so I can test it, although, launching a RF ship into space is something I haven`t tried untill yesterday, forgot how easy EL makes our lives

Edited November 12, 2014 by Kamuchi

[Jarin]

Having trouble getting the surveyed build to work. The survey station has access to the parts it needs (test-build, currently showing 400 parts needed, 2000 available), but building won't progress. Is there something I need to do to get it to use the staked-out build area?

[taniwha]

Jarin: How's the vessel productivity? Right click on any command module or workshop. it needs to be > 0.

Edited November 12, 2014 by taniwha

[Jarin]

... I probably need kerbals in the survey unit, don't I?

[Zidane]

I have a question, can this mod be installed and played on an on going career save?

I just installed it and when I play my usual save, I get a lot of null reference exceptions and the game stops responding to button presses. It does work fine on a new save file though.

[taniwha]

Jarin: Kerbals are always required, yes. Part of the design goal of EL is to make kerbals more useful.

Zidane: It certainly can, I've done so many times. I need to see your log file to be able to help you with the exceptions.

[Zidane]

Of course! I'll pm you the link right away. Thanks

For what it's relevant, i'm using ubuntu 14.04 64bit ksp version.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Zidane

[taniwha]

Zidane: Most of the exceptions are all texture related (something not installed properly? some mod zipped with lower-case names but mixed-case references?) or in Clouds (why I currently do not have EVE installed: I haven't had time to poke at it myself). Then there are a few from TAC-LS and KAC. There are no EL related exceptions: EL appears to be working correctly.

[Angelo Kerman]

Just started playing with this mod and its Karbonite adaption. Really nicely done! I do have a question that I'm not clear on: if you add more workshops to the vessel/station/base that build vehicles, does that affect the build time any? So if I have one workshop and then add another, does that increase production capacity?

also, do I need to keep the builder craft in focus to complete the build, or can I start a build and go off to another vessel and do other things?

Edited November 13, 2014 by Angel-125

[Ryds]

Hey, I can't exactly answer your question in relation to stats for build time but... timewarp is your friend. The first factory i built had loads of smelters and ore storages and was an unflyable mess because i thought moar is better. The 2nd one I built had the bare minimum needed to keep a continuous, if slow, production going and I used warp to speed things up.

[Zidane]

Zidane: Most of the exceptions are all texture related (something not installed properly? some mod zipped with lower-case names but mixed-case references?) or in Clouds (why I currently do not have EVE installed: I haven't had time to poke at it myself). Then there are a few from TAC-LS and KAC. There are no EL related exceptions: EL appears to be working correctly.

oh I found the culprit with the good old method, delete one mod at a time till it works. You're right, it wasn't EPL, sorry about that. Apparently it was lack luster labs SXT. Either that or I was getting errors due to using too much memory, which is the only explanation I can come up with for texture error. Thanks for the help.

[taniwha]

No problem. It's always good to establish what the problem is not .

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

What is the impact of Kerbal experience? Do Kerbals that have spent more time on missions improve their efficiency? If I build an MKS "academy" on Kerbin and leave a dozen Kerbals in it for a year, will they become better at building rockets?

[goldenpsp]

Hey, I can't exactly answer your question in relation to stats for build time but... timewarp is your friend. The first factory i built had loads of smelters and ore storages and was an unflyable mess because i thought moar is better. The 2nd one I built had the bare minimum needed to keep a continuous, if slow, production going and I used warp to speed things up.

I would actually say IMO timewarp is a necessary evil. I know that Taniwha is working on it, but the inability for building to occur while not in focus of the vessel can be highly annoying at times. Especially if you are trying to deal with LS mods, as well as juggling multiple missions. Sure I can timewarp to complete the build, but sometimes it isn't feasible as I may miss a window eslewhere. Or I cannot kick off builds on my EPLS on the Mun, Minmus and LKO and have them all running while I adjust my duna mission etc.

[Angelo Kerman]

I would actually say IMO timewarp is a necessary evil. I know that Taniwha is working on it, but the inability for building to occur while not in focus of the vessel can be highly annoying at times. Especially if you are trying to deal with LS mods, as well as juggling multiple missions. Sure I can timewarp to complete the build, but sometimes it isn't feasible as I may miss a window eslewhere. Or I cannot kick off builds on my EPLS on the Mun, Minmus and LKO and have them all running while I adjust my duna mission etc.

well shoot. I was hoping for onrails support. Maybe I can contribute to the code and fix that.

[taniwha]

Angle-125: I have already received a pull-request for unloaded building, but I sent it back due to issues with coding standards. I am currently waiting for the author to get back to me.

Kerbas_ad_astra: Experience is task-specific, so it has to be Workshop experience, and currently only the actual workshop gives Workshop experience.

[Wisq]

Any idea where EPL stores the position info for the windows? Specifically the EL Build Resources Display window in the VAB? It's working on my Windows KSP but not on my Mac. I'm trying to figure out if it's a bug preventing it showing up, or if it's just appearing off-screen or something. (I copied my mod directory from one to the other, but the Mac has a smaller screen.)

[goldenpsp]

So I don't want this to turn into some crazy debate, but I am genuinely curious, and since you linked it anyhow...

I am still undecided as to allowing background builds in the first place,

I'm curious as to why you wouldn't want background build capability?