[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[edrobotguy]

I found that settings file and tried changing HullRecycleTarget to Recyclables. Driving a rover into the recycler did indeed yield recyclables rather than metal, but that led to another problem: the rover didn't remove itself completely. It's still showing as sitting there; switching vessels to that rover caused the game to focus on the rover for about a second before automatically switching focus back to the vehicle with the recycler attached. It might be that the word "Recyclables" is so long that it overwrote the tab separator, so I'm going to try it again with a tab after the word Recyclables, will report results back.

[taniwha]

edrobotguy: sounds like you're fighting with the file format: convert the file from unix to dos (or mac, as the case may be) first.

[smjjames]

How about adding KAS Factory? The tiny EPL that manufactures KAS Container containing ordered KAS-able gadgets.

Could you link to what you're talking about? I can't find it, though I swear I saw it somewhere.

[protoz]

So my only problem with this mod is this.

And thats the GOOD outcome, the bad outcome is the crafted vessel spawns underground & instantly detonates. I essentially spend up to hours reloading saves because I can't get EL to spawn my vessels between, on, or around survey stakes.

I should note that this behavior seems to be related to extremely large vessels. And this has been going on since i started using EL, at least the last 4 updates, including the current one 5.1.0

Edited March 3, 2015 by protoz

[Superfluous J]

So my only problem with this mod is this. http://i.imgur.com/o3L4XqV.jpg

Funny, I was going to report a similar bug but then I realized I was using some MKS/OKS parts so don't know who to seek help from. The ship I created spawns on the launchpad all right but when I try to build it on site it spawns sideways in a random place within about 50 meters of the construction port, and then explodes. I have it on video doing that several times; it'll be in episode 21 of my Let's Play.

[RoverDude]

Which MKS/OKS part? That would be helpful.

[taniwha]

So my only problem with this mod is this. http://i.imgur.com/o3L4XqV.jpg

Funny, I was going to report a similar bug but then I realized I was using some MKS/OKS parts so don't know who to seek help from. The ship I created spawns on the launchpad all right but when I try to build it on site it spawns sideways in a random place within about 50 meters of the construction port, and then explodes. I have it on video doing that several times; it'll be in episode 21 of my Let's Play.

Both of you: it sounds very much like you are getting exceptions while EL is trying to load or spawn the vessel. If you KSP.log has stack traces with the exception, then that's all I need.

5thHorseman: spawning is purely EL, regardless of what parts are involved, so I do need to see such reports.

[Superfluous J]

Both of you: it sounds very much like you are getting exceptions while EL is trying to load or spawn the vessel. If you KSP.log has stack traces with the exception, then that's all I need.

5thHorseman: spawning is purely EL, regardless of what parts are involved, so I do need to see such reports.

I have no idea if my log has a stack trace with the exception, but here's a log I just made by loading the game, loading a save from before I completed the build, finalized it, and had a particularly glorious explosion.

[taniwha]

5thHorseman: It looks like TwakableEverything (maybe, TadicusTools) doesn't like us.

[EXC 05:22:00.764] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instan
ce of an object
        ToadicusTools.Tools.getFirstModuleOfType[ModuleSAS] (.Part part)
        ToadicusTools.Tools.tryGetFirstModuleOfType[ModuleSAS] (.Part part, .Mod
uleSAS& module)
        TweakableEverything.ModuleTweakableSAS.OnAwake ()
        PartModule.Awake ()
        UnityEngine.GameObject:SetActive(Boolean)
        ShipConstruct:LoadShip(ConfigNode)
        ExLP.ExBuildControl:getBuildCost(ConfigNode)
        ExLP.ExBuildControl:FindVesselResources()
        ExLP.ExBuildControl:OnStart()
        ExLP.ExSurveyStation:OnStart(StartState)
        Part:ModulesOnStart()
        ^G^G:MoveNext()
[LOG 05:22:01.427] Orbital Building Station loaded!

However, that's over a minute before the explosion.

The last exception before the first explosion is

[LOG 05:23:22.432] KerbalEngineer -> Array index is out of range.
[LOG 05:23:22.433] KerbalEngineer ->   at MapSO.GetPixelColor (Int32 x, Int32 y) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at MapSO.GetPixelColor (Single x, Single y) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at CBAttributeMapSO.GetAtt (Double lat, Double lon) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ScienceUtil.GetExperimentBiome (.CelestialBody body, Double lat, Double lon) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalEngineer.Flight.Readouts.Surface.ImpactProcessor.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalEngineer.Flight.FlightEngineerCore.UpdateModules () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

I don't know if either of those are the cause, but they certainly indicate issues in TweakableEverything(?) and KerbalEngineer.

I did think of something (after watching your ep 19+ (20 is still private )): What is the terrain like? How wide is the built vessel? If the ground sufficient slope*, the built vessel may be spawning partially in the ground. The solution for this is to put a -Y bounds stake a little uphill.

* The points marked by the stakes are actually about 19cm along the stake from the ground. A 1/7 slope (actually fairly steep: 8.13 degrees) will still provide clearance for a 2.5m diameter part spawning 19cm above the ground (ie, the center of the base is 19cm up)

+ I laughed when your ship toppled. Just that sort of thing is part of why survey builds work the way they do (kerbals with Minties). Also, that sort of thing is why I went to a lot of effort to get launch clamps working .

[RoverDude]

Oh... if your issue was with survey stakes then those were most definitely not my parts But yeah I would not be surprised with TweakScale causing surprises, it has become one of my leading sources of bees recently.

[Superfluous J]

I don't know if either of those are the cause, but they certainly indicate issues in TweakableEverything(?) and KerbalEngineer.

Thanks. I wish I didn't love those mods so much I'll post on their threads and see what happens.

I did think of something (after watching your ep 19+ (20 is still private )): What is the terrain like? How wide is the built vessel? If the ground sufficient slope*, the built vessel may be spawning partially in the ground. The solution for this is to put a -Y bounds stake a little uphill.

This is NOT built between stakes. I was building between stakes (and will in the future) and so far that's not caused any problems This is building on top of an MKS "orbital building platform" (I think that's what it's called. The one that has one of your orbital construction docks sticking out the top) that I - admittedly poorly - jury rigged into a ground building station.

It doesn't happen in episode 20, actually, but in episode 21 which I am encoding now. If you'd like to see the exact setup I will grab some screenies of the base and the constructed vessel right before explosion.

+ I laughed when your ship toppled. Just that sort of thing is part of why survey builds work the way they do (kerbals with Minties). Also, that sort of thing is why I went to a lot of effort to get launch clamps working .

I probably should have thought about launch clamps. It falling over is why I built the base that's causing my headaches. Though episode 20 is entitled "Minmus Tow Truck" because it showcases how I fail to use KAS winches to lift that rocket upright.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh... if your issue was with survey stakes then those were most definitely not my parts But yeah I would not be surprised with TweakScale causing surprises, it has become one of my leading sources of bees recently.

TweakableEverything, not Tweakscale. I won't use Tweakscale unless I'm playing SETI and that's only because... well... it'd be really hard otherwise

@Taniwha I just thought of something. Launch clamps are free power sources in 0.90. I know this because they cause a bug in the satellite contracts (they become available even if you have no solar panels because launch clamps are a power source). Would just building a single launch clamp and KAS connecting it to my base provide me with free, unlimited power? And if so... that seems a little unwanted

EDIT: Here are the pics

The base with the building platform on the right:

An example of the build pre-explosion. Note how far it is from the base. It's near, but not right where, the stakes used to be (where the ship fell over). I don't know if that's a coincidence or not, but there are currently no stakes in the ground.

Mid-explosion during one of the attempts when it spawned right at the base.

Note the ship is sideways. When I launch it from the launchpad, it is engine down.

Edited March 3, 2015 by 5thHorseman

[taniwha]

I had completely forgotten about launch clamps providing power. Thanks! (I was wondering why my base, shown a few pages back, had no power issues).

Yeah, screenshots might help.

[Superfluous J]

taniwha said:

I had completely forgotten about launch clamps providing power. Thanks! (I was wondering why my base, shown a few pages back, had no power issues).

Yeah, screenshots might help.

Ahem

5thHorseman said:

 

The base with the building platform on the right:

[defunct site link removed by moderator]

An example of the build pre-explosion. Note how far it is from the base. It's near, but not right where, the stakes used to be (where the ship fell over). I don't know if that's a coincidence or not, but there are currently no stakes in the ground.

[defunct site link removed by moderator]

Mid-explosion during one of the attempts when it spawned right at the base.

[defunct site link removed by moderator]

Note the ship is sideways. When I launch it from the launchpad, it is engine down.

[Shapoopy178]

I'm sure this has already been asked, but is there any way to turn off Progressive Build mode? Just as a personal preference I'd like to play instant.

[taniwha]

Heh, I'd started writing before you updated your post, went off to fix launch clamps, came back and posted.

No stakes in the ground? While stakes laying on the ground might work, no stakes at all is definitely not going to help things. When you go to finalize the build (or any time, really), check the build window for where it will build. If, instead of a dropdown showing site names, the window says "Where do you want it, boss?" (in yellow, btw), then the survey station can't find any sites and all bets are off when you hit finalize. I just looked at ep 19 again, and your successful build had "Stake" showing, and the spawned vessel's build window flashed the message briefly before finding the site and showing "Stake", so all that is working.

[Superfluous J]

Heh, I'd started writing before you updated your post, went off to fix launch clamps, came back and posted.

No stakes in the ground? While stakes laying on the ground might work, no stakes at all is definitely not going to help things. When you go to finalize the build (or any time, really), check the build window for where it will build. If, instead of a dropdown showing site names, the window says "Where do you want it, boss?" (in yellow, btw), then the survey station can't find any sites and all bets are off when you hit finalize. I just looked at ep 19 again, and your successful build had "Stake" showing, and the spawned vessel's build window flashed the message briefly before finding the site and showing "Stake", so all that is working.

Ooooh.

The stakes were called "<someone's name> base" or something like that. I picked them up and actually destroyed them both (they're insanely destructible. One just exploded lying on the ground and the other survived hitting the ground at 7.x m/s and then a few seconds after switching from it to something else, it exploded).

I do believe the UI said "Where do you want it, boss?" but because there was literally only one place available in the 2.5km physics bubble, I figured it was just flavor text. There were 2 places in the drop down named Pad-0 and Pad-1, but I figured Pad-1 was the orbital station that was far enough away by this point that I'd have had to use map mode to get to it.

I did wonder which was pad-0 and which was pad-1, and considered trying changing the name of the MKS base to see what the UI said, but was afraid that changing the name while a ship was in limbo waiting to be finalized would cause problems. In hindsight, it seems like it couldn't cause any WORSE problems than I have now

You've given me info to play with though so next time I load the game I'll fiddle a bit more. I did not know the mod would let you spawn something when you didn't have a valid spawn point set.

[taniwha]

pad-0 etc is the name EL gives to unnamed "pads" (pads, orbital docks, survey stations...) and is purely cosmetic. Right clicking on the appropriate part will let you give it a more useful name. However, it turns out that survey stations cannot be renamed* at this stage (minor bug, I'll fix it for the next version). *Without editing the save file (StationName).

[smjjames]

O-kayy.... four of my origin stakes that I had placed down earlier decided to spontaneously explode shortly after I returned to base on a rover from delivering some radial attachment stuff to a nearby place. > > I heard an explosion and initially thought one of my wheels exploded somehow, and then I heard more and saw the explosions. They didn't explode right away, they took like five minutes to explode after I got in range and a few minutes after I got into visual range.

http://sta.sh/01ud2b2wg4ed

[beeble42]

I'm having a similar problem as 5thHorseman. I have 3 stakes set, 2 are origin stakes so that the vessel spawns in between them instead of on top of 1 origin stake. I made that mistake once and saw a vessel bounce around on top of it. The other one is a +X stake to set direction. They are all in direction mode. The vessel spawns on the opposite side of the survey station oriented with +Z pointing in the same direction as the +X stake.

I've tried changing the +X stake to +Z and it doesn't change anything. I've tried removing the +X stake, changing the origin stakes to a +/- X and Z and nothing I try changes. The vessel spawns on it's side above the ground and when physics kicks in in drops and then starts bouncing around.

I'm on a lake on Minimus so the altitude of everything is exactly 0m. I wonder if that could be causing problems. I'm using MKS parts. The C3 module is the survey station and the vessel in question is an MKS base plus a PDU module. Just 2 parts.

[taniwha]

smjjames: It is something to do with KSP physics. Sometimes they will spontaneously explode, other times they will last forever. If it's not KSP itself, then it might have something to do with KAS, but the EL code attached to them does nothing that would. That said, the explosions are causing EL to throw some exceptions.

beeble42: is at least one stake within 100m of your survey station vessel? If not, the survey station will not be able to find the site (for multiple stakes to be in the same site, they must be within 200m of each other). If the build window says "Where do you want it, boss?" (or "No sites found."), then the survey station cannot find any sites.

[beeble42]

beeble42: is at least one stake within 100m of your survey station vessel? If not, the survey station will not be able to find the site (for multiple stakes to be in the same site, they must be within 200m of each other). If the build window says "Where do you want it, boss?" (or "No sites found."), then the survey station cannot find any sites.

Yes. All stakes are about 15m from the base with the C3 and no more than 40m from the C3 itself. They are all named the same and I can see the site name in the ui as expected.

One thing I noticed when I continued testing after my post was that when I click finalize I can some times see the new module appear for a fraction of a second exactly where it's supposed to in the correct orientation. It's only for a frame and many times I don't get to see it at all. The next instant it's on it's side floating 1-2m above the surface on the opposite side of the base. When physics kicks in it drops down and then starts bouncing. Some times it it spawns half way in the ground and then bounces 500m up.

So I think EL is placing the model of the new module where the stakes say it should go but then something either EL or something else immediately moves it. I've built many base modules on Mun without any problems using stakes but this is my first one on Minimus. I was running 5.0.2 and just updated to 5.1.0. The behavior is the same for both.

Here are the log entries when I build (Base PDU is the vessel I'm building):

[WRN 08:37:04.962] [Part]: PartModule FARBasicDragModel at MKS.ModuleBase, index 12: index exceeds module count as defined in cfg.

Looking for FARBasicDragModel in other indices...

[ERR 08:37:04.962] ...no FARBasicDragModel module found on part definition. Skipping...

[LOG 08:37:04.970] [MKS] Awake!

[LOG 08:37:04.977] Tac.LifeSupportModule[FFF44D62][710.92]: OnAwake

[WRN 08:37:05.021] [Part]: PartModule FARBasicDragModel at MKS.PDU, index 14: index exceeds module count as defined in cfg.

Looking for FARBasicDragModel in other indices...

[ERR 08:37:05.021] ...no FARBasicDragModel module found on part definition. Skipping...

[LOG 08:37:05.022] Base PDU loaded!

[LOG 08:37:05.023] [EL] GetVesselBox (-2.1, 13.2, -2.7) (2.3, 18.0, 1.7)

[LOG 08:37:05.023] [EL] launchPos (-1.0, -18.2, 1.0) (-0.7, 0.1, 0.1, 0.7)

[LOG 08:37:05.025] [base PDU]: Ready to Launch - waiting to start physics...

[LOG 08:37:05.054] [FLIGHT GLOBALS]: Switching To Vessel Base PDU ----------------------

[LOG 08:37:05.055] Packing Min Rover for orbit

[LOG 08:37:05.055] Packing Min Base for orbit

[LOG 08:37:05.068] Packing Tom Kerman Base for orbit

[LOG 08:37:05.068] Packing Tom Kerman Base for orbit

[LOG 08:37:05.068] Packing Tom Kerman Base for orbit

[LOG 08:37:05.068] Packing Billo Kerman for orbit

[LOG 08:37:05.071] stage manager resuming...

[LOG 08:37:05.090] [iR GUI] vessel MKS.PDU

[LOG 08:37:05.090] [iR GUI] 0 groups

[LOG 08:37:05.090] Vessel assembly complete!

[LOG 08:37:05.090] [EL] hft 2.482963

[LOG 08:37:05.090] stage manager starting...

[LOG 08:37:05.093] 3/4/2015 8:37:05 AM,KerbalAlarmClock,Active Vessel changed - resetting inqueue flag

[LOG 08:37:05.104] [KSP Interstellar] Radiation Module Loaded.

[LOG 08:37:05.105] [REGO] - Error in - BaseConverter_OnStart - Object reference not set to an instance of an object

[LOG 08:37:05.105] Tac.LifeSupportModule[FFF44D62][710.92]: OnStart: PreLaunch, Landed

[LOG 08:37:05.105] [KSP Interstellar] Radiation Module Loaded.

[LOG 08:37:05.127] 3/4/2015 8:37:05 AM,KerbalAlarmClock,Removing DrawGUI from PostRender Queue

[LOG 08:37:05.144] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF4CEA4][710.92]: Rebuilding resource lists.

[LOG 08:37:05.151] [MechJeb2] Focus changed! Forcing Min Base to save

[LOG 08:37:05.260] [Min Rover]: ground contact! - error: 0.000m

[LOG 08:37:05.260] Unpacking Min Rover

[LOG 08:37:05.264] [Min Base]: ground contact! - error: 0.000m

[LOG 08:37:05.265] Unpacking Min Base

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [Tom Kerman Base]: ground contact! - error: 0.000m

[LOG 08:37:05.316] Unpacking Tom Kerman Base

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [KAS] OnVesselGoOffRails(Core) Re-attach static object

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [KAS] JointToStatic(Base) Create kinematic rigidbody

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [KAS] JointToStatic(Base) Create fixed joint on the kinematic rigidbody

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [Tom Kerman Base]: ground contact! - error: 0.000m

[LOG 08:37:05.316] Unpacking Tom Kerman Base

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [KAS] OnVesselGoOffRails(Core) Re-attach static object

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [KAS] JointToStatic(Base) Create kinematic rigidbody

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [KAS] JointToStatic(Base) Create fixed joint on the kinematic rigidbody

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [Tom Kerman Base]: ground contact! - error: 0.000m

[LOG 08:37:05.316] Unpacking Tom Kerman Base

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [KAS] OnVesselGoOffRails(Core) Re-attach static object

[LOG 08:37:05.316] [KAS] JointToStatic(Base) Create kinematic rigidbody

[LOG 08:37:05.317] [KAS] JointToStatic(Base) Create fixed joint on the kinematic rigidbody

[LOG 08:37:05.317] [billo Kerman]: ground contact! - error: 0.000m

[LOG 08:37:05.317] Unpacking Billo Kerman

[LOG 08:37:05.327] 3/4/2015 8:37:05 AM,KerbalAlarmClock,Adding DrawGUI to PostRender Queue

[LOG 08:37:05.327] 3/4/2015 8:37:05 AM,KerbalAlarmClock,Skipping version check

[LOG 08:37:05.343] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF4CEA4][710.96]: Rebuilding resource lists.

[LOG 08:37:05.475] 3/4/2015 8:37:05 AM,KerbalAlarmClock,Vessel Change from 'Min Base' to 'Base PDU'

[LOG 08:37:05.528] Unpacking kerbalEVA (Billo Kerman). Vel: (0.0, 0.0, 0.0)

[LOG 08:37:09.217] [base PDU]: ground contact! - error: 0.000m

[LOG 08:37:09.217] Unpacking Base PDU

Edited March 4, 2015 by beeble42

[Tarheel1999]

Are the stakes 15m from the edge of the base or its center of mass? I'm not sure exactly how EPL determines survey station location but I would guess it's based on the center of mass of the vessel the survey station is connected to (because that is normally how things in KSP work). If you have large fuel depots or something else heavy far away from where you are building that could be the source of your problem.

[taniwha]

beeble42: I see but one untoward thing in your log:

 [LOG 08:37:05.105] [REGO] - Error in - BaseConverter_OnStart - Object reference not set to an instance of an object

and it looks like it's handled internally.

I have built stuff on Kerbin, Mun, Minmus and Ike, all without any trouble that wasn't caused by poor placement of stakes. A couple of times a few versions back, I did have some minor issues building in orbit around Kerbin, but a reload (saved before finalizing) and rebuild and everything worked.

[hab136]

I'm sure this has already been asked, but is there any way to turn off Progressive Build mode? Just as a personal preference I'd like to play instant.

Slight confusion of terms - instant building is just instant building, which was removed in 5.0.0 (along with "no resources" mode): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545?p=1640252&viewfull=1#post1640252

Progressive build means you can build ships without having all the RocketParts up front, and you can add more later. For example if you want to build a ship that requires 5000 RP, but you only have a container that holds 2500 RP, you can start the build, then later refill the container, and the build will continue. Without it, you'd need 5000 RP in a container to start.

[taniwha]

5thHorseman: I watched your ep 20 last night. A couple of linked pipe end-points would fix that problem: one on the back of your tow truck, one on the ground. Yes, you can attach them directly to the ground, but multiple vessels so attached will remain separate vessels. I used that trick while using my crane on a 20 degree slope on Mun.