Need some help with a school project I'm working on

[BloodWing]

Hi KSP forums!

My name is Christopher, and I'm working on a project for my math class in my high school. We were prompted to research any topic we wanted, so long as it was related to math. Naturally I chose something KSP related, and since we need an expert consultant, I thought you guys would be perfect for the job. Essentially, I will be using 3 equations (Delta-V, Hohmann maneuver and TWR ratio) to calculate the parameters for a very efficient (for my standards at least) rocket in Kerbal Space Program. This rocket will put a small lander on the Mun, nothing too fancy but enough to demonstrate the mathematics involved. I have some questions that I'm required to ask, and I've attached the link to the document outlining the whole project.

1. Are there any ways that you use mathematics on a daily basis?

2. As your field (KSP and/or orbital mechanics) was being developed, are you aware of any areas that would have been dependent on or influenced by math?

3. Is there a difference in how the math in this topic would be perceived by some who works in the field compared to your audience/client/general public?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIDpB02iaEPYlNTRFFITTUxb00/edit?usp=sharing

Feel free to make comments if you find any mistakes.

I would prefer responses to come from someone who is actually an expert in the field, but as long as you know what you're talking about I can use it

Thank you for your time, I appreciate it!

Christopher

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Heh, looking good. Great job!

And for question 1, I usually use a calculator because I'm lazy, though I sometimes do take in account other things, such as angles.

[wooaa]

You might want to message Scot Manly on youtube. He might be able to answer your questions better than I. I know there are a few people on the site that have a science background, unfortunately I am not one so I don't think my answers will be useful.

[BloodWing]

I sent a message to him already over Youtube, but I haven't gotten a response yet and that was a week ago. Thanks for the suggestion though, maybe I'll try to contact him through twitter or something.

[Whackjob]

I'd love to help. But I'm not the one you want. I get where I'm going by building and not stopping, usually arriving on a tidal wave of debris, detonations, and spite.

[RocketTurtle]

Really Whack? I never noticed, I always thought you built small.

[Whackjob]

Really Whack? I never noticed, I always thought you built small.

[Vanamonde]

Folks, please restrict replies in this thread to responses to Bloodwing's questionnaire.

[Levelord]

That's small... O_o

[milbournosphere]

I've tweeted with Scott Manley before and he was responsive. Good luck with your project!

[BloodWing]

Just sent him a tweet. Thanks guys!

[Merinsan]

I use maths everyday. Unfortunately for you though, not for KSP.

And Scott certainly would qualify as an expert.

Good luck with the project.

[Spyritdragon]

Im at uni so i do use maths everyday, but its still for my studies.

What i can say is that playing KSP has given me a whole, very much new outlook on space, partially through the math involved. Although i tend to guesstimate my loads and look up the angles for my transfer windows, the maths involved make this totally different.

Many principles in orbital mechanics are unknown to normal people or counterintuitive; the idea that you can end up farther from your target half an hour later by burning straight towards it thanbif you hadnt done the burn ; the idea that accelerating will always still return you to tbe exact same point you made the acceleration in your orbit;

The fact that you cant just go to Mars anytime you want, and youll have to burn all kinds of weird eayst get there, but generally not in the direction of Mars itself..

The entire game changes your outlook on orbits. Theres much more to orbits than flying in an ellips arojnd a planet, but you wont know it unless youre actually getting invokved with them.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Spyritdragon

[John FX]

I would also ask this question in the science lounge as they are much more into talking specifically about maths there instead of generally and how it affects gameplay.

[kurja]

1 A. If I can maximize delta-V, I can make my rocket as small as possible and still reach the Moon.

shouldn't that be the other way round? Make the rocket as small as possible to maximize dv, instead of maximizing dv so you could make a smaller rocket?

[jsfalconero]

I believe you are looking for ISP not dV. Typically dV is directly related to the mass of your ship (since most of its early mass is fuel), but if you're looking for a small ship that still has a lot of dV that's a question of efficiency -given as Specific Impulse.

In the rocket equation your dV comes from tossing a lot of high energy particles out the back of your ship as quickly as possible. The change in weight part of the equation serves to determine how much dV you get for the force you just created (by tossing things out the back), but also to determines the total mass of fuel that gets tossed. Where ISP comes in is how efficiently your engine can take fuel and turn it into force. Two equal rockets with different engines will have different dV based on each engine's ISP.

If you're going for efficiency you might have a look at the NERVA for your circularization/transfer burns.

[Elmun]

I am by no means good at math. In fact, in my job as a fire fighter I use simple equations on a day to day basis for calculating the friction generated by water flowing through a hose so I know what pressure to set the pump on the fire truck at, and it's all pretty much been calculated before hand. I just sort of guess first then calculate after when things have slowed down.

A quick Google search did find this though, a whole lot of maths involved using Apollo 11 and the translunar insertion:

http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/apollo11-TLI.htm

On that page are links to other pages that deal with orbital mechanics, and have math that make me go cross eyed.

http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm

Good luck with your project!

[Pineapple Frenzy]

You may wish to introduce yourself over at the Orbiter community. They have a math specific sub forum and plenty of knowledgeable and educated users who like to discuss mathematics related topics ad nauseum. Orbiter is a great space simulator and is the only real competition to KSP for our valuable time. I've wasted many hours playing Orbiter.

Good luck!

[BloodWing]

A big thank you to everyone who gave me other resources or contributed to helping me with my project, I appreciate it!

[schoff123]

After looking through your google doc, im assuming it is not an apollo style mission? a lander descending from a command tug and then rendezvousing? If so, then more dV is needed for rendezvous b/w the lander and tug. i dont know how detailed your trying to get but just a thought.

[illectro]

Sorry I've been busy, can't say why, but it's pretty obvious if you follow tech news. Will try and help you out.

[Needles_10]

Sorry I've been busy, can't say why, but it's pretty obvious if you follow tech news. Will try and help you out.

Well then! Even the community-revered Scott Manley might be pitching in!

[BloodWing]

Ok so this is the first finished version of my video, keep in mind that this is only the video portion of what I'm actually turning in (the other part is the document), and the focus is do demonstrate how math is involved in KSP, not how to play KSP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQSFHiRXAaA&feature=youtu.be

Any thoughts?

Thanks again for all you guys have done for me :3

Edited December 7, 2013 by BloodWing

[kurja]

I think it's very good. Of course I'm noticing things that probably aren't relevant, like that ascent profile which was abysmal

Still seems somehow backwards to me to say that you are maximizing your delta v so that you could make your rocket smaller, as usually you'd increase delta v by either reducing mass or increasing fuel.

[Skyler4856]

This should probably be moved to the science labs