[TechTree] [0.23.5] Ackander's Vertical Tech Tree - Release v1.16 - May 13, 2014

Ackander · December 3, 2013

Meet KSP's first Vertical Technologies Tree:

Using r4m0n's TreeEdit plugin I redesigned the TechTree in KSP from the ground... up. Literally, during the redesign I fashioned all the nodes into a tree shape. Now, trading aesthetics for utility, I have arrived at the tree's present form, seen below. I divided the parts, both stock and a lot of mod parts, into logically categorized disciplines. Although most engineering, technologic, and scientific disciplines separate into individual linear paths, there are multi-discipline requirements to acquire more advanced hardware throughout as well as mod-craft specific

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It is my hope that many play-styles can be experienced without discomfort while using this TechTree; with only the usual .cfg tweaking to acclimate the various mods with one another of course. Because of this, the purpose to the TechTree itself is merely to organize as many parts possible into a logical and concise system of ordered disciplines, as well as order the parts in such a manner as to introduce a balance between difficulty and science grindiness. At the start of the tree, only basic capsules and a truss section are available to the Kerbals, begging the question: are the Kerbals intelligent (or patient, whichever) enough to do the thinking necessary to take to the stars and explore the vast Kerbolar System? (hint: this should be the hardest part of this TechTree.. hopefully). The total required science for the entire tree is now 24,415. I decreased the costs of several areas of the tree to account for there not being enough to gain by spending so much science at once. I am hoping this is not a problem. Plus, just like the Stock TechTree, this TechTree will have some blank nodes if you do not have every mod installed that I do, decreasing overall science costs.

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That said, this TechTree does not require any mods to play with, as there are minimal gaps of non-stock part only nodes between nodes with stock parts in them. Also, since all stock tech nodes are incorporated, any mod parts that sort into the stock TechTree will do so with this TechTree as well, with relative logistisy.

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Release v1.15.45.c adds some nodes that only contain craft specific parts, such as Wayland's WT-51 Transport or the spacecraft and rockets from Bobcat's historical packs. For now, all the parts for a single spacecraft/rocket reside together in one node, but eventually the parts will be seperated into new nodes based on discipline, with appropriate requirements for each.

Leave any questions, comments, and suggestion you may have, including if you need support for a mod not listed below for whatever reason.

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To all mod developers I want to give a sincere thank you for all the time and effort you put into your work, as well as Squad for making KSP and including such fine modding support. Thank you!

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Download:

ACKANDERÃ¢â‚¬â„¢S VERTICAL TECHTREE v1_16.zip on DropBox.

ACKANDERÃ¢â‚¬â„¢S VERTICAL TECHTREE v1_16.zip on CurseForge.

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Requirements:

TreeLoader Plugin

or

TreeEdit Plugin

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Recommended TechTree Installation Methods:

If you have TreeLoader, and/or TreeEdit:

Download ACKANDERÃ¢â‚¬â„¢S VERTICAL TECHTREE v1_16.zip.
Start a new game, goto Research and Development Lab, select stock.
Move tree.cfg to your game's save folder, right next to persistent.sfs

-I need to find out if I can save a complete tree.cfg through TreeEdit's cloud save, or if it only saves the screen state of the tree. I am sure I cannot load all parts at once to make sure it saves properly.

A Few Notes:

TreeEdit.dll
or
TreeLoader.dll
is required to play with non-stock TechTrees made using the TreeEdit plugin.
The current version of
TreeEdit
stays active whether you're in or out of the Research and Development Lab. When pressing F5 TreeEdit attempts the nodes in the current scene. If you are in the VAB, there are no nodes therefore TreeEdit saves a blank tree.cfg. I recommend not having TreeEdit installed if you are going to be playing KSP's career mode, otherwise every time you press F5 you will delete your TechTree. Fortunately, your progress is saved in persistent.sfs, so re-installing the tree.cfg file will bring your progress back. Also, you can re-assign quicksave to another function key.
You can override your current TechTree, but you may have gaps of unresearched nodes between the nodes you already researched.

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Updates:

v1.16 - Release d
May 13, 2014
-Added parts from the additional NASAmission content added to KSP in version 0.23.5

-Updated for KSP Interstellar v0.11
v1.15.45.c - Release c
January 11, 2014
- Added parts from the following mods into TechTree:

6S Service Compartment Tubes

Beastly Science Pack

Damned Robotics MOdular MANipulator

Deep Space Mission Pack

FTmN Atomic Rockets

Historic American Pack

Historic Soviet Pack

L-Tech Scientific Stuff

SpaceX Launch Pack

Station Science

Stockalike Double Nerva

TAC Electrolyzer and Fuel Cell

TAC Life Support Converter

Tarsier Space Technology

Tri-Hexagonal Structural Trusses

Wayland's Emergancy Escape Pod "The Egg"

Wayland's FL-1 Rover and Wheels

Wayland's Freelander Pod

Wayland's HyperRing

Wayland's MechPod

Wayland's Pegasus Px2

Wayland's Port-o-Hatch

Wayland's Space Eagle 1999

Wayland's WR1 Rapier and WV8 Air Scoop

Wayland's WT-51 Transport

- Added projects concept, mods with projects:

-B9 Aerospace

-Tiberdyne Shuttle System

-Wayland's Emergancy Escape Pod "The Egg"

-Wayland's FL-1 Rover and Wheels

-Wayland's MechPod

-Wayland's Pegasus Px2

-Wayland's Space Eagle 1999

-Wayland's WT-51 Transport

-Historic American Pack

-Historic Soviet Pack

-SpaceX Launch Pack

-Novapunch Odin and Thor
v1.12.18.b - Release b
December 3, 2013
- Added parts from the following mods into TechTree:

ECLSS Life Support

Hooligan Labs Airships

Hull Camera VDS

Ioncross Crew Support

PBW Fuel Balancer

RLA Electric Engines

RLA Power Generation Parts

RLA Stockalike Parts

Sceppies Minipack

Service Module System

Space Shuttle Engines

Stretchy Tanks

TiberDyne Space Shuttle Systems

- Science Costs Overhaul

- TechTree nodal structure revised
v1.0 - Release a
December 3, 2013
- Initial public release
v0.9 - preRelease
November 23, 2013
- Mod parts added through updates sorted into tree

- Arranged tech nodes into final formation

- Begin testing
v0.5 - preRelease
November 15, 2013
- Finished sorting parts

- Arranged tech nodes into the rudimentary shape of a tree
v0.1 - preRelease
November 4, 2013
- Initial design for vertically oriented technologies tree

____

Ackander's Vertical TechTree Support:

Until further notice, all requests for mod support will will be added to a requests list for processing into an update. I will try not to put out too many updates too often, only often enough. Unless users of Ackander's Vertical TechTree make requests for support or changes, I probably will not make spontaneous updates, for I will assume there are no problems with the TechTree in its current state.

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Getting Started:

I know what you will think when you first open up the Research and Development Lab, and all you find available to you are a one man capsule or two and a truss section. I can assure you this is intentional. As the Kerbals did not have rockets before they had rockets, why should you? Unlike the last version, you only need to perform two or three missions to get to parachutes, maybe more if you do not have installed NovaPunch, Vanguard's Parachutes, or Hooligan Labs Airships mods. Below I briefly illustrate how it may be possible to to get to the ocean and plains without walking or using rockets, aquiring more than enough science to get the technology to make suborbital rockets (maybe further?) that do not require parashutes to survive. Also included is a screen of the Vertical TechTree from v0.5. Below the gallery, I am providing a list of every node in the Vertical TechTree, and with it the ammount of science you would need to buy only the nodes leading up to that node and how many nodes away from Start it is. For instance, you only need 70 science to get to small or radial parachutes, but you may need more to buy other nodes for their parts to be able to get 70 science in a less grindy way.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

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What follows next may be painfully obvious to some, but I shall explain what is to come as a matter of course. Following this will be list of mods with parts incorporated directly into the TechTree, as well as a short description of the disciplines the TechTree is partitioned into and what types of parts may be found within. I do realize that some mods may not be up-to-date, but in all the testing I managed to do, no mods exposed themselves to be problematic.

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[TD]

[TABLE=width: 400]

[TR]

[TD]

Mods With Parts Sorted Into Ackander's Vertical TechTree

_{6S Service Compartment Tubes by nothke at}_link
_{AIES Aerospace by carmics at}_link
_{B9 Aerospace by bac9 at}_link
_{Beastly Science Pack by BeastofChicken at}_link
_{CORE ANVIL Rocketry by Absolution at}_link
_{Damned Robotics MOdular MANipulator by nothke at}_link
_{Deadly Reentry Continued by NathanKell at}_link
_{Deep Space Mission Pack by kockaspiton at}_link
_{Docking Strut by JDP at}_link
_{ECLSS Life Support by asmi at}_link
_{Engineer Redux by cybutek at}_link
_{Extraplanetary Launchpads by taniwha at}_link
_{FTmN Atomic Rockets by Kommitz at}_link
_{Fustek Station Parts by sumghai at}_link
_{FusTek's Common Berthing System by fusty at}_link
_{FusTek's Munox System by fusty at}_link
_{H.O.M.E. by BobCat at}_link
_{HexCans by Greys at}_link
_{Historic American Pack by BobCat at}_link
_{Historic Soviet Pack by BobCat at}_link
_{Hooligan Labs Airships by JewelShisen at}_link
_{Hull Camera VDS by Albert VDS at}_link
_{Infernal Robotics by sirkut at}_link
_{Ion Hybrid Electric Engines by EPD at}_link
_{Ioncross Crew Support by yongedevil at}_link
_{ISA MapSat by Innsewerants at}_link
_{Kerbal Attachment System by Majiir at}_link
_{Kethane by Majiir at}_link
_{Kosmos Spacecraft Design Bureau by Normak at}_link
_{KSP Interstellar by Fractal_UK at}_link
_{KSPX by KasperVld at}_link
_{KW Rocketry by Kickasskyle at}_link
_{Lack Luster Labs by Lack at}_link
_{LazorSystem by Romfarer at}_link
_{L-Tech Scientific Stuff by ludsoe at}_link
_{MechJeb2 by r4m0n at}_link
_{MK3 Expansion Pack by TouhouTorpedo at}_link
_{MK4 Fuselage System by TouhouTorpedo at}_link
_{Near Future Propulsion by Nertea at}_link
_{NovaPunch 2 by Tiberion at}_link
_{Procedural Dynamics Wings by DYJ at}_link
_{Procedural Fairings by e-dog at}_link
_{Protractor Rendezvous by mrenigma03 at}_link
_{PWB Fuel Balancer by codepoet at}_link
_{Radial Experiment Storage Container by Talisar at}_link
_{RealChute Parachute Systems by stupid_chris at}_link
_{RemoteTech 2 by Cilph at}_link
_{ReStock Parts by PolecatEZ at}_link
_{RLA Electric Engines by hoojiwana at}_link
_{RLA Power Generation Parts by hoojiwana at}_link
_{RLA Stockalike Parts by hoojiwana at}_link
_{Robotic Arms Pack by Romfarer at}_link
_{SCANSat by damny at}_link
_{Sceppies MiniPack by Sceppie at}_link
_{Service Module System by sumghai at}_link
_{Space Shuttle Engines by dtobi at}_link
_{SpaceX Launch Pack by LazarusLuan at}_link
_{Spherical Toroidal Pack by Talisar at}_link
_{Station Science by ethernet at}_link
_{Stockalike Double Nerva by Kommitz at}_link
_{Stretchy Tanks by AncientGammoner at}_link
_{TAC Electrolyzer and Fuel Cell by eggrobin at}_link
_{TAC Life Support by TaranisElsu at}_link
_{TAC Life Support Converter by CSVoltage at}_link
_{Tarsier Space Technology by tobyb121 at}_link
_{TiberDyne Space Shuttle Systems by Tiberion at}_link
_{Tri-Hexagonal add-on Parts by BlueGoblin at}_link
_{Tri-Hexagonal Structural Trusses by Semni at}_link
_{TV Aerospace by Taverius at}_link
_{VanguardTech's EVA Parachutes by Kreuzung at}_link
_{Wayland's Emergancy Escape Pod "The Egg" by Devo at}_link
_{Wayland's FL-1 Rover and Wheels by Devo at}_link
_{Wayland's Freelander Pod by Devo at}_link
_{Wayland's HyperRing by Devo at}_link
_{Wayland's MechPod by Devo at}_link
_{Wayland's Pegasus Px2 by Devo at}_link
_{Wayland's Port-o-Hatch by Devo at}_link
_{Wayland's Space Eagle 1999 by Devo at}_link
_{Wayland's WR1 Rapier and WV8 Air Scoop by Devo at}_link
_{Wayland's WT-51 Transport by Devo at}_link

[/TD]

[/TR]

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[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]Disciplines

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Start

[/TD]

[TD=width: 400]

Start.. The beginning of your journey through a vast.. fjord of knowledge and exploration. You and your kind know nothing about unnatural flight.. only the deep desire among your brethren to go.. up. You get a metal box to sit in and a small metal structure to put it on that your mind may be that much closer to the stars and Mun above.

Basic One-Kerbal Capsule
Small Truss

[/TD]

[TD=width: 125]Mobility

[/TD]

[TD=width: 400]

The advances in electrics empowered Kerbals to study in the Mobility Discipline the parts and structures needed to move various forms of vehicles be it ground, space, or aero based.

Rover Parts
Landing Wheels
Landing Legs

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Aerodynamics

[/TD]

[TD]

The disciplined study of stability and control led the Kerbals into the realm of the Aerodynamics Discipline, the mystical study of seeing air. Advancing in the Aerodynamics Discipline allows for bigger and better lifting surface developments, which lets you build bigger and better aerocraft.

Wings

[/TD]

[TD]Nuclear

[/TD]

[TD]

After enough experience with radioisotopic power generation, the Kerbals were ready to move on to bigger and better.. stuff. Study of the Nuclear Discipline opens up with the development of nuclear rocket engines and tiny nuclear reactors.

Nuclear Rocket Engines
Nuclear Reactors

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Aeroframes

[/TD]

[TD]

Taking flight and soaring above the ground in a heavier than air contraption is a moderately beautiful thing. Each step in the Aeroframes Discipline requires advancement in both controls and aerodynamics to unlock aerocraft control centers, jet engines, air intakes, and fuselages from which to hang lifting surfaces from.

Cockpits
Fuselages
Jet Engines
Air Intakes
Fairings

[/TD]

[TD]Resources

[/TD]

[TD]

The advanced exploration of the Kerbolar System forced some Kerbals to realize that there were resources on other celestial bodies suitable for making exploration even easier, With Resources Discipline Kethane and ore discovery, storage, and processing could be achieved.

Raw Material Discovery Parts
Raw Material Processing
Material Storage

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Communications

[/TD]

[TD]

The knowledge provided by basic space electrics directly led to utilizing radio waves and electric conductors to develop the long range wireless Communications Discipline.

Di-pole Antennas for Omnidirectional Use
Dish Antennas for Directed Beam Use

[/TD]

[TD]Robotics

[/TD]

[TD]

From mechanical wheels came the concepts of mechanical arms and joints. Robotics Discipline explores the study of moving parts and manipulators for use on standard and exotic spacecraft designs.

Robotic Parts

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Controls

[/TD]

[TD]

Stability and Control was developed by accident, just like some other things may have been. Regardless, the Controls Discipline allows Kerbals to have better control over their things.. be they real or imagined. Controls includes Stability Augmentation Systems and small wing-like structures with active control surfaces that get bigger the higher in the tree you climb.

SAS modules
Winglets
Control Surfaces
Capsules

[/TD]

[TD]Rocketry

[/TD]

[TD]

Rockets.. those machines propelled through space and time by the sweat, tears, and blood of Kerbal engineers. Within the Rocketry Discipline can be found containers for fuel, rocket motors, liquid rocket engines, aerodynamic forms, and more metal boxes from which to command. The higher up the tree in Rocketry, the larger and more complex the rocket parts you will unlock.

Motors and Engines
Fuel Containers
Command Modules

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Electrics

[/TD]

[TD]

It was not until the Kerbals started investigating the Kerniverse that they realized electricity would play an important role in a dedicated space program and is necessary for prolonged space missions. The practical applications of Electric Discipline study come to life in power storage, power generation, and powerful lights mounted to the outside of spacecraft.

Electric Power Storage
Electric Generation
Lights
Lazors

[/TD]

[TD]Science

[/TD]

[TD]

The deep thoughts that arose as a result of the feeble attempts to get away from the ground have produced in your Kerbals a sense of logic, as well as a new chair to sit upon while you gaze up in bewildered wonder.. Or perhaps some fantastic accidents have already happened to you, in which case the chair is still almost useless at this point. Within the Science Discipline will be found contraptions to aid the intrepid Kerbals in their quest to understand the universe around them. Integrated into the Science Discipline are thermodynamic theories allowing, in some circumstances the elimination of waste heat from space faring vessels.

Sensors
Science Experiments
Waste Heat Radiators

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Electric Propulsion

[/TD]

[TD]

The knowledge provided by basic space electrics directly led to utilizing electric fields to create thrust by accelerating ionized material to very high exit velocities using electrostatic/magnetic fields establishing the Electric Propulsion Discipline.

Electric Emission Electric Propulsion Thrusters
Electric/Liquid Fuel Hybrid Engines
Electric Thruster Gas Storage

[/TD]

[TD]Spaceframes

[/TD]

[TD]

Building complex rockets requires specialized components developed by advances in the Spaceframe Discipline. Here can be found adapters, couplers, decouplers, and basic orbital spaceframes.

Adapters
Couplers
Decouplers
Orbital Parts

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Exploration

[/TD]

[TD]

Once long range communications became popular, Kerbalnauts would be able to more safely leave the confines of Kerbal Orbit, establishing the Exploration Discipline of exploring other places within the Kerbolar System.

Ladders
Winches
Habitation modules

[/TD]

[TD]Survivability

[/TD]

[TD]

The experiences of having rockets go up and subsequently come back down only to land or fly into fireballs on the ground and in the air gave some Kerbals some.. good ideas. With enough experience Survivability Discipline, parachutes and heat shields can be developed that will protect rockets and their passengers from sudden unexpected endings when trying to land or reenter Kerbin's atmosphere.

Parachutes
Heatshields

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Kerbolar Voltaics

[/TD]

[TD]

Ah, the power of Kerbol. This technology will allow free energy from Kerbol, as long as you are not in the shadow of some planet or something. Kerbolar voltaic panels can be unlocked when studying the Kerbolar Voltaic Discipline. Using the combined technologies from thermodynamics in Science and Kerbolar Voltaic Panels, specialized waste heat exchangers can be developed now.

Kerbolar Voltaic Panels
Waste Heat Radiator Panels

[/TD]

[TD]Theoretics

[/TD]

[TD]

Some forms of power were always theoretically possible for the Kerbals, they just could never use those technologies until they discovered the Theoretics Discipline and studied quite intensely. Quite intensely.

Fusion Reactors
Antimatter Reactors
Antimatter Collection/Storage
Alcubierre Warp Drive

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Miniaturization

[/TD]

[TD]

They look like real rockets parts.. only smaller. Miniaturization Discipline also includes Reaction control systems.

Tiny Rocket Parts
Reaction Control Systems

[/TD]

[TD]Unmanned

[/TD]

[TD]

Kerbasbstensia technology did not succeed properly until the advent of wireless space communication systems. Advancements in the Unmanned Discipline give increasingly better unmanned options, ultimately leading to the potential development of a fully autonomous robotic flight commander.

Unmanned command modules
MechJeb controlled modules

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And.. hereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s some astronomy pictures of Mun, Duna, and Jool from my front yard.. just because.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

_{This work is licensed under}_{Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.}

Edited May 15, 2014 by Ackander
updated to include 0.23.5 additions

Jagger · December 3, 2013

Wow, this looks awesome! I always wanted to integrate more mods in the tech tree, since so many are Sandbox only... Just one question: Can I install it when I already have a save file and can I keep it, along with all the unlocks?

MedievalNerd · December 3, 2013

Wow, looks amazing. It's obvious you put tons of work into this. Congrats on the release.

BoZo · December 3, 2013

No Interstellar, Scansat or Ioncross?

MrSnappyTurtles · December 3, 2013

Yea can you add ScanSat please

wasmic · December 3, 2013

And.. hereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s some pictures of Mun, Duna, and Jool from my front yard.. just because.

You won me over right there.

EDIT: Your camera might be defective, Duna is red, not orange. Orange is more like the fictional planet "Mars".

EDIT2: Oh, and those four dots, are they Callisto, Io, Europa and Ganymede Laythe, Vall, Tylo and a dead pixel? Lucky shot you got there, with them all lined up.

Edited December 3, 2013 by wasmic

Ackander · December 3, 2013

Wow, this looks awesome! I always wanted to integrate more mods in the tech tree, since so many are Sandbox only... Just one question: Can I install it when I already have a save file and can I keep it, along with all the unlocks?

You can overide your existing tree.cfg, but to be honest, I don't know what will happen when you do. What I would do for existing saves is back it up first, then replace the tree.cfg, then go into persistent.sfs to delete all Tech{} entries in the ResearchandDevelopment scenario, and depending on how far along I was in my game, give myself an appropriate amount of science points to catch back up. You can try replacing tree.cfg without changing the persistent.sfs, but there are several unique nodes between stock nodes in my TechTree, so you'd have un-researched gaps.. I don't think it would hurt your game too much though, as I think the game would replace..... zzt

...... zzt Sorry, just had to go and test it out real quick. It looks like you do keep the nodes you already researched. Be aware, however, that the parts are shifted around somewhat significantly, so you more than likely will not have access to the same parts as before, but your already launched spacecraft should be ok. Try it out (don't forget to backup ) and see for yourself?

MrSnappyTurtles · December 3, 2013

If you dont want to put scansat in how would i go about in doing it myself

Ackander · December 3, 2013

No Interstellar, Scansat or Ioncross?

Yea can you add ScanSat please

KSP Intersteller is indeed accounted for.. however, neither Scansat or Ioncross have been included. To be honest, I mostly used mod popularity on SpacePort to determine what mods I sorted into the TechTree.

I will endevour to include all requests that come my way and update the TechTree accordingly.

MrSnappyTurtles · December 3, 2013

and we dont have to have all the addons to make this work right

BoZo · December 3, 2013

KSP Intersteller is indeed accounted for..

Oh yeah, there it is, awesome.

What about HullCamerasVDS, RLA Stockalikes, KAS and Stretchytanks?

Ackander · December 3, 2013

You won me over right there.
EDIT: Your camera might be defective, Duna is red, not orange. Orange is more like the fictional planet "Mars".
EDIT2: Oh, and those four dots, are they Callisto, Io, Europa and Ganymede Laythe, Vall, Tylo and a dead pixel? Lucky shot you got there, with them all lined up.

Indeed, I agree the red was washed out quite a lot. As far as the four dots, yeah those are the moons, and the 'dead pixel' is actually about 100 or more pixels (if you mean the one above and to the right of the moons). I believe it might be another moon because I took another picture 3 hours later but there is no light there, and all the stars/nebulae/galaxies lined up between the two images.

Ackander · December 3, 2013

and we dont have to have all the addons to make this work right

That's right. Just remember some nodes are made around whole mod parts, so without those mods, the nodes will be empty. Not all empty nodes are hidden or dead ends, either, they probably unlock a node higher up that does have parts in it. I tried to hide all the nodes that are dead ends that have no stock parts.

Ackander · December 3, 2013

Oh yeah, there it is, awesome.
What about HullCamerasVDS, RLA Stockalikes, KAS and Stretchytanks?

Kerbal Attachment System already included, others I am adding to my list. However, I do want to mention that I removed Stretchytanks during development because of balancing issues. But... I can add them back in, perhaps to Nanolathing or something beyond, under the guise of requiring perfect chrystaline structure? Sure. Added to the list.

ecoli360 · December 3, 2013

One stupid question: how do I download this mod? for the life of me I canÃ‚Â´t find any download link. Same with Realistic Progression mod.

wasmic · December 3, 2013

Indeed, I agree the red was washed out quite a lot. As far as the four dots, yeah those are the moons, and the 'dead pixel' is actually about 100 or more pixels (if you mean the one above and to the right of the moons). I believe it might be another moon because I took another picture 3 hours later but there is no light there, and all the stars/nebulae/galaxies lined up between the two images.

Well, there's Jool, three moons and... something lined up. Since neither Bop nor Pol can be seen from Earth, well, I really don't know what has happened to your picture. Maybe you got a shot of a Giant Kraken from afar?

EDIT: How about adding Space Shuttle Engines? They're pretty popular, and they allow us to make SPACE SHUTTLES!

Edited December 3, 2013 by wasmic

Ackander · December 3, 2013

One stupid question: how do I download this mod? for the life of me I canÃ‚Â´t find any download link. Same with Realistic Progression mod.

You can download the tree.cfg file from here. Just place the file in your game's save folder. I didn't give the link for TreeEdit because r4mon posted it on another forum, and did not want to point everyone there in case he had a reason to do so.

Wampa842 · December 3, 2013

The tree looks promising... though I find it quite unrealistic game-breaking that I have access to a high tech command pod with all kinds of neat electronics, but not a piece of rag to tie it to the top. I'm sure you have your reasons not to include a parachute, I just find it odd.

Jebediah should've stolen Ms. Kerman's tablecloths and blankets. His brothers would be alive then.

Ackander · December 3, 2013

Well, there's Jool, three moons and... something lined up. Since neither Bop nor Pol can be seen from Earth, well, I really don't know what has happened to your picture. Maybe you got a shot of a Giant Kraken from afar?
EDIT: How about adding Space Shuttle Engines? They're pretty popular, and they allow us to make SPACE SHUTTLES!

Aye, I might have seen the SSEngines during my journey here. I shall add them to the list.

Sokar408 · December 3, 2013

Out of curiosity. How much science is required to unlock it all?

EDIT: *learns to read entire thread before asking already answered questions*

EDIT 2: I can't seem to locate this download thing, all I'm finding is a spreadsheet with completely unrealistic values for Mun

Edited December 3, 2013 by Sokar408

Ackander · December 4, 2013

Out of curiosity. How much science is required to unlock it all?
EDIT: *learns to read entire thread before asking already answered questions*
EDIT 2: I can't seem to locate this download thing, all I'm finding is a spreadsheet with completely unrealistic values for Mun

Ack, wrong url then.. zzt

zzt ..Fixed.

Now.. Mun's potential science? Unrealistic? Perhaps, but that's where the maths lead to. Let's see..

Firstly, I pulled all numbers that went into that spreadsheet from the KSP wiki.

And now:

Only Kerbin and Mun have "biomes"
- Mun has
  15
  biomes
[*]Every body in the Kerbolar System has a science multiplier
- For Mun's surface, near and far outerspace the values are
  4
  ,
  3
  , and
  3
Every science activity has a maximum science value
- The science activities are surface sample, crew and eva report, mystery goo, materials study, temp, seismic, and gravity scans (pressure and atmo analysis require atmospheres)
- Their maximum science values are
  40, 8, 10, 18, 35, 10, 23, 22
  respectively
[*]Every science activity affects the various regions of celestial bodies differently
- Science activities either:
  - cannot scan a specific region at all
  - scan the entire region as if it were a single biome for one amount of maximum science
  - scan the biome of an entire region for a maximum science for each biome
[*]The Maths
- The equation for maximum science for a given activity for a celestial body is:
  maximum science value
  times
  regional science multiplier
  times
  number of "seen" biomes
- Surface Samples: 40 * 4 * 15 =
  2400
- Crew Reports: (8 * 4 * 15) + (8 * 3 * 1) + (8 * 3 * 1) =
  528
- EVA Reports: (10 * 4 * 15) + (10 * 3 * 1) + (10 * 3 * 1) =
  1080
- Mystery Goos: (18* 4 * 15) + (18 * 3 * 1) + (35 * 3 * 1) =
  1188
- Materials Studys: (35 * 4 * 15) + (35 * 3 * 1) + (35 * 3 * 1) =
  2310
- Temperature Scans: (10 * 4 * 15) + (10 * 3 * 1) =
  630
- Seismic Scans: (23 * 4 * 15) + (23 * 3 * 1) + (23 * 3 * 1) =
  1380
- Gravity Scans: (22 * 4 * 15) + (22 * 3 * 15) + (22 * 3 * 15) =
  3300
[*]When you have 15 biomes, the science really stacks up (wait until the other planets and moons have biomes too).
- The total science available from Mun is
  12,816
  . Note: Total does not account for science gained by reovering spacecraft/aircraft etc.

In conclusion, yes, the amount you can get from Mun is rediculously huge when compaire to the other planets of the Kerbolar System, especially when you get less than half of that from Laythe alone. But, I would not say the amount is unrealistic, not when considering there are 15 biomes on Mun.

For reference, here is the entry for Mun from my spreadsheet, with null values omitted:

[TABLE=width: 1024, class: grid]

[TR]

[TD]Experiments[/TD]

[TD]surface sample[/TD]

[TD]crew[/TD]

[TD]eva[/TD]

[TD]Mystery Goo [/TD]

[TD]Materials Study[/TD]

[TD]Temp Scan[/TD]

[TD]Seismic Scan[/TD]

[TD]Gravity Scan[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Required part[/TD]

[TD]sample[/TD]

[TD]report[/TD]

[TD]Mystery Goo[/TD]

[TD]SC-9001[/TD]

[TD]2HOT T[/TD]

[TD]Double-C[/TD]

[TD]GRAVMAX[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Surface[/TD]

[TD]Biome[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Near space[/TD]

[TD]none[/TD]

[TD]Once[/TD]

[TD]Biome[/TD]

[TD]Once[/TD]

[TD]none[/TD]

[TD]Biome[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Outer space[/TD]

[TD]none[/TD]

[TD]Once[/TD]

[TD]none[/TD]

[TD]Biome[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Maximum value[/TD]

[TD]40[/TD]

[TD]8[/TD]

[TD]10[/TD]

[TD]18[/TD]

[TD]35[/TD]

[TD]10[/TD]

[TD]23[/TD]

[TD]22[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]Per Region[/TD]

[TD]Total[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Surface[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2400[/TD]

[TD=align: right]480[/TD]

[TD=align: right]600[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1080[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2100[/TD]

[TD=align: right]600[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1380[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1320[/TD]

[TD=align: right]9960[/TD]

[TD=align: right]12816[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Near space[/TD]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD=align: right]24[/TD]

[TD=align: right]450[/TD]

[TD=align: right]54[/TD]

[TD=align: right]105[/TD]

[TD=align: right]30[/TD]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD=align: right]990[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1653[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Outer space[/TD]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD=align: right]24[/TD]

[TD=align: right]30[/TD]

[TD=align: right]54[/TD]

[TD=align: right]105[/TD]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD=align: right]990[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1203[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

fronbow · December 4, 2013

Thanks for a much better tree (that incorporates more mods setups).

I'm just having a few teething troubles with it; well with the version that you attached and the version that TreeEdit gets - they're very different!

Your dropbox version is only 26k whereas the version grabbed via TreeEdit is 76k.

Also, I couldn't seem to get the tree to load unless I have either TreeEdit or TreeLoader installed? If they're not installed then I just get the stock tree even though the tree.cfg exists.

Oh, and another observation, how about including a parachute a bit earlier at the start - it's proving quite impossible to gather crew/eva reports! (I'm getting bored of taking soil samples from the launch pad!!!)

Cheers

Sokar408 · December 4, 2013

Ack, wrong url then.. zzt
zzt ..Fixed.
Now.. Mun's potential science? Unrealistic? Perhaps, but that's where the maths lead to. Let's see..
Firstly, I pulled all numbers that went into that spreadsheet from the KSP wiki.
And now:
Only Kerbin and Mun have "biomes"
Mun has
15
biomes

[*]Every body in the Kerbolar System has a science multiplier
For Mun's surface, near and far outerspace the values are
4
,
3
, and
3

Every science activity has a maximum science value
The science activities are surface sample, crew and eva report, mystery goo, materials study, temp, seismic, and gravity scans (pressure and atmo analysis require atmospheres)

Their maximum science values are
40, 8, 10, 18, 35, 10, 23, 22
respectively
[*]Every science activity affects the various regions of celestial bodies differently
Science activities either:

cannot scan a specific region at all

scan the entire region as if it were a single biome for one amount of maximum science

scan the biome of an entire region for a maximum science for each biome
[*]The Maths
The equation for maximum science for a given activity for a celestial body is:
maximum science value
times
regional science multiplier
times
number of "seen" biomes

Surface Samples: 40 * 4 * 15 =
2400

Crew Reports: (8 * 4 * 15) + (8 * 3 * 1) + (8 * 3 * 1) =
528

EVA Reports: (10 * 4 * 15) + (10 * 3 * 1) + (10 * 3 * 1) =
1080

Mystery Goos: (18* 4 * 15) + (18 * 3 * 1) + (35 * 3 * 1) =
1188

Materials Studys: (35 * 4 * 15) + (35 * 3 * 1) + (35 * 3 * 1) =
2310

Temperature Scans: (10 * 4 * 15) + (10 * 3 * 1) =
630

Seismic Scans: (23 * 4 * 15) + (23 * 3 * 1) + (23 * 3 * 1) =
1380

Gravity Scans: (22 * 4 * 15) + (22 * 3 * 15) + (22 * 3 * 15) =
3300

[*]When you have 15 biomes, the science really stacks up (wait until the other planets and moons have biomes too).
The total science available from Mun is
12,816
. Note: Total does not account for science gained by reovering spacecraft/aircraft etc.

In conclusion, yes, the amount you can get from Mun is rediculously huge when compaire to the other planets of the Kerbolar System, especially when you get less than half of that from Laythe alone. But, I would not say the amount is unrealistic, not when considering there are 15 biomes on Mun.
For reference, here is the entry for Mun from my spreadsheet, with null values omitted:
[TABLE=width: 1024, class: grid]
[TR]
[TD]Experiments[/TD]
[TD]surface sample[/TD]
[TD]crew[/TD]
[TD]eva[/TD]
[TD]Mystery Goo [/TD]
[TD]Materials Study[/TD]
[TD]Temp Scan[/TD]
[TD]Seismic Scan[/TD]
[TD]Gravity Scan[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Required part[/TD]
[TD]sample[/TD]
[TD]report[/TD]
[TD]report[/TD]
[TD]Mystery Goo[/TD]
[TD]SC-9001[/TD]
[TD]2HOT T[/TD]
[TD]Double-C[/TD]
[TD]GRAVMAX[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Surface[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Near space[/TD]
[TD]none[/TD]
[TD]Once[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD]Once[/TD]
[TD]Once[/TD]
[TD]Once[/TD]
[TD]none[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Outer space[/TD]
[TD]none[/TD]
[TD]Once[/TD]
[TD]Once[/TD]
[TD]Once[/TD]
[TD]Once[/TD]
[TD]none[/TD]
[TD]none[/TD]
[TD]Biome[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maximum value[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Per Region[/TD]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Surface[/TD]
[TD=align: right]2400[/TD]
[TD=align: right]480[/TD]
[TD=align: right]600[/TD]
[TD=align: right]1080[/TD]
[TD=align: right]2100[/TD]
[TD=align: right]600[/TD]
[TD=align: right]1380[/TD]
[TD=align: right]1320[/TD]
[TD=align: right]9960[/TD]
[TD=align: right]12816[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Near space[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD=align: right]24[/TD]
[TD=align: right]450[/TD]
[TD=align: right]54[/TD]
[TD=align: right]105[/TD]
[TD=align: right]30[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD=align: right]990[/TD]
[TD=align: right]1653[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Outer space[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD=align: right]24[/TD]
[TD=align: right]30[/TD]
[TD=align: right]54[/TD]
[TD=align: right]105[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD=align: right]990[/TD]
[TD=align: right]1203[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Ahhh I see. I thought it said that the science mentioned was the science acquired pr test, not pr test of all biomes combined Great work btw

123nick · December 4, 2013

can you add scansat compatibility? its like isa-mapsat but more awesome. and its pretty neat.

Ackander · December 4, 2013

Thanks for a much better tree (that incorporates more mods setups).
I'm just having a few teething troubles with it; well with the version that you attached and the version that TreeEdit gets - they're very different!
Your dropbox version is only 26k whereas the version grabbed via TreeEdit is 76k.

A disparity for sure. I think I'm doing one thing, but another thing happened it seems. Looks like the tree.cfg I uploaded is Yargnit's tree from another save folder. Correct tree.cfg is uploaded now. I wonder.. if the tree will still work if it's not named tree.cfg. I mean, it's just another .cfg and I don't think the game cares where they are in the file structure, they are all put in one big long list of .cfgs. If this is the case, tree.cfg shall soon be further known as AckandersVerticalTechTree.cfg. At least if you download it from me.

Also, I couldn't seem to get the tree to load unless I have either TreeEdit or TreeLoader installed? If they're not installed then I just get the stock tree even though the tree.cfg exists.

I will see about the TreeEdit requirement today. It might be so, I never tried loading the tree without it, in fact.

Oh, and another observation, how about including a parachute a bit earlier at the start - it's proving quite impossible to gather crew/eva reports! (I'm getting bored of taking soil samples from the launch pad!!!)
Cheers

In a way, this was intentional.. so you could appreciate the grandure of the adventure that was laid out before you. I can compromise, perhaps, and decrease the costs to get to survivability and maybe include wheels sooner? I guess not everyone can see the fun in trying to only use boosters to get up and then back down to a new biome, and it does take a lot of launches to walk to the water and grasslands to get those sciences..

What about this: I make it a 'reward' for using mods that make the game more challenging? For instance, if you have Remote Tech 2 you can can get the little antenna much sooner than the other antennas. What I need is a plugin that allows the techtree.cfg to be modified in situ, so mutually exclusive paths may be choosen, like a hard path or a not hard path.. Anyone?

Let me look at the numbers again and run a simulation or two, then I'll see what I come up with.

Initial thoughts are to make getting parachutes require a minimum number of launches, because I know the launch grinding is tedeous and frankly not fun. The fun part is supposed to be the puzzle of what/how to build something to accomplish the mission. We'll see.

I'll get back to you on this soon.

[TechTree] [0.23.5] Ackander's Vertical Tech Tree - Release v1.16 - May 13, 2014

To balance grindyness and difficulty, how much science should Vertical TechTree cost? 1 member has voted

1. To balance grindyness and difficulty, how much science should Vertical TechTree cost?

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To balance grindyness and difficulty, how much science should Vertical TechTree cost?
1 member has voted