Just what is the community to SQUAD?

[czokletmuss]

I thought i read somewhere that they were going to be using a simpler version of this.

KSC -> liquid fuel and oxidizer -> rocket engines

Just kidding!

[PDCWolf]

I think this is key. I like the science tree in the sense that I have to tailor my missions to a specific purpose, and that I actually have a reason to go to planets. But, then what? Resources fills that VERY IMPORTANT gap in gameplay.

I actually always dreamed and were going to suggest if it didn't happen that after completing the tech tree, the real career mode would start, and there money and reputation would kick in (like real NASA). People would contract my launch services and stuff or I would do hardcore interplanetary sample return missions to gain more funding and reputation. That way you can keep the tech tree as a tutorial without killing the hardcore players' hope of a good career mode.

[Cupcake...]

I'm really surprised at he amount of griefing I'm seeing on the boards lately. I've been playing the game for a year and love what Squad has done. Yes there are some annoying glitches but the fact is that I have received more enjoyment from this game than any other since half-life. And frankly I can play KSP over and over as I get new ideas or try to duplicate someone else's - so vastly better than any half-life kind of game. Far more creative.

Some people are just Debbie Downers and live to complain and ruin the fun for everyone else I really wish the big forum Poo-Bah would create a "I want to complain" sub-forum so that all complaint threads could be moved there by mods and all the complainers would have a place to share with each other and everyone else could just ignore it and enjoy the game.

My thoughts exactly, the General KSP Discussion thread has made for very depressing reading lately.

Cupcake...

[Eric S]

So make it not grindy and more fun.

If something doesn't work properly, you change it in a way that makes it work.

Don't be lazy.

Saying "Don't be lazy." is assuming that the lack of desire to do the required work is the only hangup. How do you change the resource system so that it's fun?

[Torham234]

Does this mean that resources are gone completely?

I would also welcome a clarification on this. While the full complex resources idea might have been boring/impossible in practice, that doesn't mean the Squad has to abandon the idea completely. Kethane is a very popular mod, despite having only one resource to manage. Clearly lots of people like the challenge it brings.

[tntristan12]

Saying "Don't be lazy." is assuming that the lack of desire to do the required work is the only hangup. How do you change the resource system so that it's fun?

Kethane did a pretty good job. I dunno... Start there?

[Torham234]

Kethane did a pretty good job. I dunno... Start there?

Even if they just included the plain Kethane mod as is, I think that would make a lot of people happy...

[PDCWolf]

Saying "Don't be lazy." is assuming that the lack of desire to do the required work is the only hangup. How do you change the resource system so that it's fun?

I'll use your own mindset against you. Who are you (or the devs) to tell me what's fun and what isn't? There's people that see the entire game as tedious and install mechjeb. There's people that see the entire game as beautiful and do every-single-launch manually.

Same with every part of the game, Hell, there's a plugin that does asparagus staging for you.

there's no global definition of what's fun and what isn't.

[Sof]

I'd prefer it if the resource system would be like the proposed NASA plans for manned missions to Mars.

Some ideas use fuel made on Mars to fly back.

I wouldn't want KSP to turn into interplanetary mining corp.

The resources needed to "build" rockets are manufactured on Kerbin by companies you have no control over. The funding for your missions comes from the same place NASA's budget does. Not by selling 50000 tons of blutonium.

[tntristan12]

I fail to see how adding *more* things to do when exploring other planets is a bad thing. You start off with all the resources you need to complete a basic mission as is, so going other places and mining resources and using them only provides more different routes to get to the same end, and gives players goals with which to challenge themselves. Playing a game should be about growing your mind, not doing mindless repetition, and I know the latter is what the devs are afraid will come of implementing a resource system, but it's not mindless repetition if it's an extra gameplay feature. Currently you go and land on other planets, plant a flag and collect soil samples so you can gather science points with which to advance the tech tree. That's pretty much the only thing you can do no matter where you land. Sure you can create a base on other worlds and pretend that it mines resources but it's all cosmetic. The game should support things like that that help players immerse themselves more fully in the universe! Just my opinion.

[SpaceHips]

Saying "Don't be lazy." is assuming that the lack of desire to do the required work is the only hangup. How do you change the resource system so that it's fun?

I'd tell you if squad were transparent enough to tell us what they were doing.

[SlinkyBlue]

I'd tell you if squad were transparent enough to tell us what they were doing.

They're very transparent. If they weren't transparent, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

They're just being transparent about not doing resources, which is making people angry.

[Galileo Kerbonaut]

They're very transparent. If they weren't transparent, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

They're just being transparent about not doing resources, which is making people angry.

Telling people that the resource system has been dropped because it is too complicated is not transparent... it's insulting. Being transparent means you come up with a thorough reasoning to back up your decisions.

[ddavis425]

They're very transparent.

Is that why we knew the fate of resources without having to specifically ask during KerbalKon? And why we got a full devblog announcing multiplayer and the decision to drop resources? Wait a minute...

[Alguien]

They're very transparent. If they weren't transparent, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

i dont know whats the meaning of transparency to you, but having a year of no info about them and then quickly say "nope we canceled them because they are too hard" is the opposite of transparency

[Lazro]

As of now: Threads that include people venting about resource cancellation and hating on multiplayer like it killed their dog takes up 1/3 of all threads in General KSP discussion. Most of those threads have 10 or more pages of absolute bile.

[Landwalker]

I would also welcome a clarification on this.

Seconded. Anyone got some citations?

[MGCJerry]

The money spent is not because I want to play the game, well maybe some, but more that I believe in the product and want to see it happen. As far as the money put into this game it might be about .0001% compared to what investors have put forth, as well as SQUAD themselves.

I havent followed the incidents or whatever due to work and whatnot, but I just had to quote this. The money spent is not because I want to play the game, well maybe some, but more that I believe in the product and want to see it happen. Absolutely! To be perfectly honest, this is the most polished alpha game ive seen in awhile. Ive played finished games that were more buggy and limited than KSP is.

[Highlad]

I only managed to catch the first wee bit of kerbal con on thursday... Could somebody explain to me why everyone is peeved off?

From what I gather, the mods have either canceled or suspended development of resources in favour of multiplayer. If this is true then so what? We have kethane, more credit to the modders. Besides, Anything more is a bonus

But if someone could clarify what is going on, that would be nice

[czokletmuss]

But if someone could clarify what is going on, that would be nice

We would like some clarification too HarvesteR said more or less that resources are cancelled because they were too complicated and not fun enough and that maybe they will show up in a much simpler form later (like using materials from surface to repair ships or something like this), but no processing or mining.

And well, after this http://i.imgur.com/gmFO3a6.png

it's a little disspointing. Plus imagine where kethane would be now if the kethane team knew there won't be any official resource system in the near future (1 year?).

[The Jedi Master]

Thanks, MaxMaps!

To naysayers: Science is grindy because it is in development. Give it a few updates, seesh.

[tntristan12]

Thanks, MaxMaps!

To naysayers: Science is grindy because it is in development. Give it a few updates, seesh.

No. The entire concept of gathering to advance the tech tree is inherently grindy. Not just the current implementation of it. The only thing more updates will accomplish is making science gathering less exploitable and more entertaining, which is good. The point is: just because something is grindy doesn't mean it can't be useful or fun, just like resources. Saying something shouldn't be in the game because it's grindy is contradictory and missing the point.

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Managed to catch the closing livestream from Kerbalcon. I don't have a transcript but what I got from it is that they put a lot of effort into resources but came to find it to be decidedly non-fun. No details really WHY it was not fun but clearly the direction they had been taking it in development didn't get it somewhere they wanted it to go, so despite all the work they were dissatisfied enough with it to, "put it on the back burner". Didn't say, "won't ever do anything," just that they felt they had better things to do with their time and money at this point than beat a dead horse (my phrase, not theirs). I got the impression that they would probably take another go at it at SOME point but it was no longer a priority because there were other things they could work on and wanted to work on that would produce better results.

[Holo]

No. The entire concept of gathering to advance the tech tree is inherently grindy.

If you're going to different destinations and running different experiments, it's not grindy. For something to be grindy it needs to be repetitive; science in KSP is not repetitive, unless the player deliberately makes it so.

[tntristan12]

I can understand wanting to work on other things in the mean time, but *multiplayer*? I'll let that statement stand for itself.