The Grand 0.23 Discussion Thread

[zeppelinfan9999]

Hi all, just wondering what you think about the functionality of the SAS system in .23? I've found that, now that there is mechanical delay on control surfaces, the SAS system doesn't feel quite as stiff as it should.

[astropapi1]

Also, steerable landing gears.

Yep! Forgot about that one.

[Boamere]

I've found that the rapier engines are a little underpowered :/ they are very very slow on liftoff, i think their thrust should be upped a little to counteract the poopy isp and high weight (i mean cmon the only cool thing about them is auto switching)

Overall they are great for the quick little SSTO with no use, the weight means you can't put rcs on you planes and that you can't really have too much fuel or any cargo, but they're pretty fun to use. (also its quite hard to make ssto's with to rapier engines)

Other than that i'm having a much better time in 0.23 love all the tweakables and fuel changes

Edited December 18, 2013 by Boamere

[Boamere]

Oke guys.. i have posted here before but forgot my passowrd.. just made a new account...

El Bazzo

Upload a screenshot (using imgur) and we'll be able to help (hopefully)

[Commissar]

i love the tweakables, and the optimizations help, my space station (with 3 complex spacecraft docked) went from unplayable lag, to simply laggy. it's a start.

haven't tried the rapier, and all space activities have been suspended until mechjeb works for me. my current projects are too large/heavy to guide manually. but, hey, i can build and test stuff in the meantime.

[bazzy]

oke hope this works.... and sorry for my ships name... got frustrated only religious dutch users might be offended

I think the problem is with the structual frsme thingy between the main rocket and the side mounted parts.. together with the tri-couplers, pleasy try it for yourself and see if it happens with you guys as well...

Thanks in advance

[Eric S]

One observation right off the bat is why am I not starting with aircraft? I see this wonderful runway, I know I can get science from different areas of Kerbin. It would seem that flying there would be more realistic than trying sub-orbital manned rocket shots to get there and experiment. Heck, at least give me wheels (landing gear) and I'll try a horizontal rocket plane.

Kerbal Space Program focuses more on gameplay than realism. Because of that and the fact that it's "Space Program" you're pushed towards rockets. There are mods that change the tech tree once you feel comfortable with the game, and I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one where planes come before rockets.

2. Why must I perform numerous manned missions before I can do unmanned probe launches? I would expect probes launches to come first and then man missions. I'd rather risk a machine than a Kerbal for new ventures.

For similar reasons. Manned missions are easier to get right for new players. They don't have to worry about power, and capsules are easier to control because the have larger reaction wheels. There's also the fact that the kerbals in the corner of the screen, whether they're screaming or laughing maniacally, tend to draw people into the game so that what is happening matters more.

3. Okay, now I finally got probes, but no batteries (except for the built in 10 minutes) Why don't batteries come first?

Again, because the focus is on manned space flight, and while manned missions benefit from batteries, they aren't as critical as they are for unmanned missions.

4. So I try a sub-orbital and orbital shot with a probe. How do I do science with them? (like I can with Kerbals). I now have dead probe in orbit This could be entirely my lack of knowledge on probe science collection.

I don't think you're missing much. Early on, the only science you get from probe missions are from recovering a craft that went someplace. Again, because the focus is on manned missions and having access to science sensors and all the manned science at the same time would have players blowing through the early tech tree. Once you get another level or two into the tech tree, there are science sensor parts that will let you gain science through them. The thermometer is probably the first one you'll get. There's also a barometer, seismograph, gravitoli detector, and atmospheric analysis sensor.

EDIT: Oops, forgot about the goo container and materials science bay. You should have them unlocked by now, so they're a source of science for probe missions.

5. I'm only 3 levels deep into the tech tree (two out of 4 branches) and more often than not I'm starting to get very little "new" science from my flights. Not sure I'm missing a big part, but advise is welcome.

You probably need to push out farther, though you might be missing some science where you're at. My first mission in a stock career mode usually nets about 100-145 science, at which point I can make it to Minmus, which nets enough science that I can do a better Minmus mission, or go to the Mun. By the time I've hit the Mun, I've got the parts I need to go to Duna or Eve (but not a return from the surface of Eve). By the time I've gone to Duna and Eve, I've got the parts I need to go to Moho/Jool/Eeloo.

6. Basic EVA - why aren't my Kerbals tethered to the command module (think Ed White in Gemini 4). The first time I did EVA in orbit, Jebediah did a cya later, tumbled off and did his own re-entry. Outside of quickly pressing F to grab onto the module, am I missing something here?

It's possible you're missing the fact that the kerbals have a jet pack. You need to hit 'r' to turn it on while they EVA.

I really love the game! I hope my comments/questions make sense.

They all make sense, and in fact, most of them are frequently asked questions, heavily debated topics, or frequently requested features, in the case of EVA tethers.

If you find that doing manned missions before unmanned missions bothers you, there are mods that will change that, and they're not hard to find. Part of the reason I'm willing to accept the gameplay over reality focus is that the gameplay emphasis helps newer players, and experienced players know how to install mods to make the game closer to what they want.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Eric S

[Boamere]

I really love the game! I hope my comments/questions make sense.

I can't add much to the aboves answer other than....

you'll get there in the end! and try sending your kerbals over different biomes (e.g the poles or do an EVA report from above the desert, just not while your in atmosphere XD) also eva's shouldnt make you spin off unless you are accelerating,in atmos oryou have a part covering a little bit of the eva hatch

[ttb]

Hi all,

Had a quick go in .23, loaded up the biggest craft I had ready made (about 600 parts), this used to be too much for my computer, but now it runs like a charm! Thanks for the update Squad! Would rather have optimizations any day over new features!

Thanks

ttb

[LlamaDragon]

2. Why must I perform numerous manned missions before I can do unmanned probe launches? I would expect probes launches to come first and then man missions. I'd rather risk a machine than a Kerbal for new ventures.

I've seen this pop up off and on since career mode was added so I finally signed up to comment on it. If you look at the US space programs, manned missions came well before anything other than primitive tests. The first unmanned satellites didn't do much. They transmitted, but weren't controllable. Some had instruments to give them something meaningful to send back, but in terms of KSP that kind of mission wouldn't give you much to do except launch and maybe do some staging. At best it would be a single launch to get you a science point or two to start the manned program. The Mercury program did several unmanned test flights prior to Al Sheppard going but they were all sub-orbital and, again, very little was controlled from the ground.

So KSP is basically starting you with the first manned Mercury mission, at which point probes that did anything useful were still a few years away.

[Xteuk]

Just registered on the forum for one thing.

I went back to KSP one month ago, when i learned that the .22 update (with Career, yay !) was available.

And now, this .23 update just took me unprepared. (Yes i'm not really _looking for_ information ^^)

My purpose is to say :

Great Job Team ! So far i Love everything i'm seeing of what you're doing !

I'm now sticked to this game even more than with the sandbox . It brings .

The latest feature "Science Archive" seem a real good way to know what we're missing, and how to access this goddam feature we just _need_ to bring back Beloved Kerbals.

I've just ... I'm only here to say ... that ... (OHMYGOD i have an new idea for my rocket, need-to-go-see-ya !)

All my congratulations and thanks.

[Galileo Kerbonaut]

oke hope this works.... and sorry for my ships name... got frustrated only religious dutch users might be offended

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9471/7vrl.png

I think the problem is with the structual frsme thingy between the main rocket and the side mounted parts.. together with the tri-couplers, pleasy try it for yourself and see if it happens with you guys as well...

Thanks in advance

Holland! The vanilla game generated this Kerbal for me: How about that

Haring is Dutch for herring.

[panarchist]

Holland! The vanilla game generated this Kerbal for me: http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5615/z13z.jpg How about that

Haring is Dutch for herring.

If KSP2 ever turns out to be the game analogue to the CCCP launch complex, and if you can spawn Kerbals there, then he could be a "Red" Haring. ;-)

[MR4Y]

While I find the 'tweakables' "implementation" very useful(against installing FAR to set up control surfaces), now the game runs even slower than 0.22. I'm not expert on those things, but how can this be possible? This is something that keeps me from actually enjoying the game and even playing it.

Also, I'm still wondering how a beginner player, or even someone not as dedicated as say, Scott Manley, is able to figure out how science gathering works.

[boxman]

I just had a strange bug.. was playing around with some ship at the space center did a eva and then when i did a time warp i saw the ship vanish in front of me. It didnt explode or anything it just simply vanished as if i had ended the flight.

Tried to switch back to it but the ship was completely gone.

Edit: Seems like it is related to the ball bearing mod i use. :\ For some reason ksp can no longer save if anything is attached to a ball bearing, which i guess is what causes that issue when time warping as well.

I know for a fact that this was never a issue with .22 and earlier.

Edited December 19, 2013 by boxman

[rodion_herrera]

...now the game runs even slower than 0.22. I'm not expert on those things, but how can this be possible? This is something that keeps me from actually enjoying the game and even playing it.

Apparently, you're one of the exceptions to the rule. Most people are reporting improved framerates/performance. There's even a thread here praising the improved framerates/performance. Perhaps you have some specific machine issue.

Also, I'm still wondering how a beginner player, or even someone not as dedicated as say, Scott Manley, is able to figure out how science gathering works.

Some people are smart. Then there are those who are not as smart. The smart ones will figure it out faster, the less smart ones will probably eventually get there, but at a slower pace.

[AlexanderB]

now the game runs even slower than 0.22. I'm not expert on those things, but how can this be possible?

For me, tweaking the Physics Time a bit (from 0.04 to 0.08) (and sliding terrain detail to "low") fixed a lot.

Before tweaking, the timer turned orange just by looking at the kerbin terrain/horizon.

[Eric S]

While I find the 'tweakables' "implementation" very useful(against installing FAR to set up control surfaces), now the game runs even slower than 0.22. I'm not expert on those things, but how can this be possible? This is something that keeps me from actually enjoying the game and even playing it.

Do you have any mods installed? some mods didn't cope with 0.23 very well, and emit a lot of errors, which have to get handled, which takes time. You can check this by hitting Alt+F2. If you have the same message over and over there, you probably have an addon that's spazzing out because something changed.

[Mattasmack]

Hi Folks,

...

One observation right off the bat is why am I not starting with aircraft? I see this wonderful runway, I know I can get science from different areas of Kerbin. It would seem that flying there would be more realistic than trying sub-orbital manned rocket shots to get there and experiment. Heck, at least give me wheels (landing gear) and I'll try a horizontal rocket plane.

2. Why must I perform numerous manned missions before I can do unmanned probe launches? I would expect probes launches to come first and then man missions. I'd rather risk a machine than a Kerbal for new ventures.

...

I really love the game! I hope my comments/questions make sense.

They are good comments, I think! Others have responded already, but I'd like to add another thought regarding your first two questions. There's another thread in this general discussion forum that has screenshots from the very first versions of the game. If you look at them, you'll see the parts the game originally had are very similar to the parts you start with in career mode (e.g. 1-Kerbal capsule, fuel tank, engine, solid rocket). Airplane parts were first developed by a modder member of the community and were only added to the stock game in a later version. Although airplane parts are widely used and appreciated by the community now, I think the developers still think of those basic rocket parts as the 'core' of the game, and my guess is that making them the starting parts in career mode was just the default option to them. The tech tree partially mirrors the development of the game, as well as a progression of more advanced parts.

Regarding your questions about the usefulness of probes fairly early on in career mode (i.e. before solar panels, batteries, etc.) ... good questions! I don't think the tech tree was changed in this version except to add the new parts, so we're still looking at essentially the first publicly-released version. I expect (I hope) that it will get changed in future versions to iron out wrinkles like that. For now, as others have said, there are mods that change the tech tree.

[Duke-49th]

Do you have any mods installed? some mods didn't cope with 0.23 very well, and emit a lot of errors, which have to get handled, which takes time. You can check this by hitting Alt+F2. If you have the same message over and over there, you probably have an addon that's spazzing out because something changed.

No it seems to be the anoying "bug" that some of us have with the water...look this thread here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62180-0-23-Lag

Ohh..and please make a bug report..with clean installation and pls follow the bug report guideline. To support Squad here to make them able to give us a fix.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Duke-49th

[sholak]

Updated for my WIn 7 via the patcher; anyone else getting this issue?

Opening connection to kerbalspaceprogram.com:873 with transport RSYNC...

bin\rsync.exe -zrav --progress rsync://steve.holak%[email protected]:873/kerbalsp.production/KSP_win/ "/cygdrive/c/KerbalDwnload/ksp-win-0-22-0/KSP_win"

rsync: failed to connect to kerbalspaceprogram.com (198.20.66.242): Connection timed out (116)

rsync error: error in socket IO (code 10) at /home/lapo/package/rsync-3.0.9-1/src/rsync-3.0.9/clientserver.c(122) [Receiver=3.0.9]

rsync exited with code 10: Error in socket I/O

Cleanup

Cleaning up some leftover files...

And it hangs here

[Spartwo]

Is it me or does throttling take a long time?

and flaps seem to constantly be on whatever the fine control thing was.

[Boamere]

For me, tweaking the Physics Time a bit (from 0.04 to 0.08) (and sliding terrain detail to "low") fixed a lot.

Before tweaking, the timer turned orange just by looking at the kerbin terrain/horizon.

Oh the only thing you'll want to change is the terrain detail, it runs much smoother (changing physics time might make your rockets look a bit dumb)

Most people report lag because ksp updates the graphics setting to maximum, e.g i run it with low terrain detail and half res (I've got lots of mods...already )

[Boamere]

Is it me or does throttling take a long time?

and flaps seem to constantly be on whatever the fine control thing was.

Its mechanical delay to make the flaps much smoooooother, less jerky

[_Aramchek_]

Its mechanical delay to make the flaps much smoooooother, less jerky

And it's terrible, it takes away all the responsiveness and some of the ability for acrobatic skill flying etc, all because some people complain that planes are "too hard" or "unstable".

Those two issues are solved by GOOD plane design, not nerfing control surfaces.