Are experiments resetable?

[lazarus1024]

So, are any of them? If so, which ones are not resetable? How can you reset them?

It mentions in the release notes that if you remove the data on EVA it renders the thing inoperative, would this apply to, say, the thermometer? Or just the goo and materials module?

Gah! I really need to get home and download the update. I don't know that I will be able to tonight. I have to bottle two batches of beer after getting the kids to bed. Sigh.

[Specialist290]

I believe that, at the very least, the Goo Canister and the Materials Bay are not resettable without access to the new science lab module. I think thermometers, barometers, etc. can be reset by default for multiple uses, but I don't recall exactly. I'll have to spend a little more time with the game myself to confirm.

[ihtoit]

according to Scott Manley (demonstrated in his .23 features video), the goo canister and materials bay are resettable using the new lab module (which doesn't actually sit there and generate science unless you process returned goo and materials experiments through it - BOO! Back to Sandbox mode for me, then!).

[Mitchz95]

according to Scott Manley (demonstrated in his .23 features video), the goo canister and materials bay are resettable using the new lab module (which doesn't actually sit there and generate science unless you process returned goo and materials experiments through it - BOO! Back to Sandbox mode for me, then!).

Can you do that with the other science parts as well? (seismic sensor, barometer, etc)

[Superfluous J]

according to Scott Manley (demonstrated in his .23 features video), the goo canister and materials bay are resettable using the new lab module (which doesn't actually sit there and generate science unless you process returned goo and materials experiments through it - BOO! Back to Sandbox mode for me, then!).

You're mad enough that you won't just get free science for putting a thing in space, that you're abandoning career mode altogether?

[Tic-Tac]

So I suppose that doesn't do anything to the eva reports/surface samples? Can still spam.

[GROOV3ST3R]

I think EVA and samples diminish in value once you have them. I'm not sure but I think one of my reports was worth no science in the archive. I will check that again though.

I actually like this update ^^ It's pretty nice. Lab might need some tweaking at a later date or maybe next patch will bring more functionality to it - remain hopeful and optimistic ^^ You have a LAB, come on. If it just generated science alone, I would dump a couple of experiments in it and leave 10 of them floating around kerbin indefinitely... A little difficulty is not a bad thing you know ^^ Keeps the game challenging and interesting.

[Geschosskopf]

So I suppose that doesn't do anything to the eva reports/surface samples? Can still spam.

In 0.23, you can only transmit the same information (IOW same experiment in same place) 1 time per ship.

[lazarus1024]

In 0.23, you can only transmit the same information (IOW same experiment in same place) 1 time per ship.

Hmmm, interesting. So even with a thermometer and such you are limited to one transmission no matter what? I assume you can also at least return the data as well as transmit it with the same ship though?

I can't wait to start playing tonight. I tried to grab it last night before bed, but it was downloading too slow, so I'll have to start again tonight. I hope things have been balanced a little better as to how much science stuff earns then. It would kind of stink if it takes several times more missions to be able to advance as far.

[Geschosskopf]

Hmmm, interesting. So even with a thermometer and such you are limited to one transmission no matter what?

I guess I didn't explain that well enough. It's like this:

Without new Mobile Lab part:

• All experiments/reports can only be transmitted 1 time per location per ship per mission. For reusable things like crew reports and thermometers, this means that you can do them once each as the ship passes "through space high over [planet]". However, because they're reusable, you can do another batch of 1 each as the ship passes "through space low over [planet]", then again the upper and lower air, and finally on the surface.
  
• Each individual Goo and Material part can only be used once per mission, whether transmitted or recovered. If transmitted, then the rule above applies, so if you have 2 Goos exposed in the same place and transmit 1 of them, you won't be able to transmit the other (actually you can transmit it but get zero points and it becomes unusable).
  
• For all experiments other than crew/EVA reports, the amount of science you can earn for a given experiment in a given location is capped at 40% of the total available if all you do is transmit. This might take several trips to the same place to achieve because many experiments give less than 40% of their value when transmitted and you can only transmit them once per ship per mission.
  
• If you return an experiment, you get full value for it, and there is no restriction on how many copies of it you can bring home on the same same ship.
  

With the Mobile Lab, it's pretty much the same except with the following differences:

• The ML only affects transmissions, not recovery. It adds 15% to the transmission efficiency of the experiment. So if transmitting something normally only gets you 20% of the returned value, transmitting it after processing will get you 35%.
  
• The ML allows Goos and Materials to be used more than once. After transmitting them, you can clean them out and they're ready to go again.
  
• The ML allows you to transmit the same experiment from the same ship and location more than once. HOWEVER, the practical limit on this is 2 times because of the 40% overall cap on science earned from transmitting. IOW, the 1st time (including the ML's bonus) you might get 35% of the available total, the 2nd time you will get the remaining 5% under the limit, and thereafter you can't get any points for transmitting that experiment in that location at all. You have to return that experiment to get any more points in that location.
  
• NOTE: Sometimes the ML will let you get somewhat over the 40% transmission limit. This happens when the ML's 15% buff to transmission efficiency results in more than 40% of the total available parts
  

[lazarus1024]

Okay, I think that all makes sense.

Any rebalance in how much science things earn and/or how much science it takes to unlock things? I wasn't a big fan of science spamming, but it sounds like under the new system its going to be much harder to advance things.

Also for the mobile lab, its kind of a shame it is limited to 40% value on transmission (other than the exception you mentioned). I'd think it should be closer to 50-70% of the overall science since you can learn a lot more in the lab than you would be able to otherwise. That and it seems like it diminishes the value of the lab a lot. It seems like the only point would be to use one for non-return missions where you would otherwise need to load a large number of goo or materials to do the science you were planning on where the mass of the extra experiments would outweigh the mass of the lab module.

On your first point without the ML, with the transmission limitation, is that one transmission per location, per ship still allow a transmission AND a return? So for example I could transmit an EVA report from LKO, log another EVA report from LKO and return the report for more science than just returning the report would have netted?

[Tic-Tac]

"For all experiments other than crew/EVA reports, the amount of science you can earn for a given experiment in a given location is capped at 40% of the total available if all you do is transmit."

Wow, that's a really big big nerf we got here

Well, at least it gave the career mode some longer lifespan.

[Franklin]

• All experiments/reports can only be transmitted 1 time per location per ship per mission. For reusable things like crew reports and thermometers, this means that you can do them once each as the ship passes "through space high over [planet]". However, because they're reusable, you can do another batch of 1 each as the ship passes "through space low over [planet]", then again the upper and lower air, and finally on the surface.

I'm actually quite glad for this. Not just from an anti-grind perspective, but realistically how much "science" can one gather from 100 reports of the temperature, or what Goo is doing, in a single location at a single point in time. I feel like it's unrealistic to assume we'd get any more usable research out of every report after the first given the conditions for the experiments are remaining the same.

[Eric S]

Hmmm, interesting. So even with a thermometer and such you are limited to one transmission no matter what? I assume you can also at least return the data as well as transmit it with the same ship though?

Not really. The sensor-type experiments are reusable, but the diminishing returns were changed so that even if a transmission only gets you 20% of the value of a return, a second transmission from the same location is going to return much less science (like a third as much as the first one), and each subsequent one is much smaller. Because of this, repeat transmissions can't return as much, let alone more, science as a single return.

However, if you're doing a multi-location mission, then the sensor-type experiments are still capable of getting their usual bite out of every location. In fact, because you can now move the results into the capsule via EVA, you can now get full return value from a single sensor from multiple locations if it's a manned mission.

[Geschosskopf]

Any rebalance in how much science things earn and/or how much science it takes to unlock things? I wasn't a big fan of science spamming, but it sounds like under the new system its going to be much harder to advance things.

I don't think there were any changes in how the numbers work. Looks like everything on the tree still costs the same and you still get the same points from doing the same experiments. But I always returned everything (except crew reports, EVA reports, and an Eve probe) anyway so my style of play hasn't changed in 0.23. I go to Mun and Minmus as fast as I can, land on them 3 or 4 times each, then off to Duna and Eve. That totally unlocks the tech tree for me, both in 0.22 and 0.23.

Also for the mobile lab, its kind of a shame it is limited to 40% value on transmission (other than the exception you mentioned). I'd think it should be closer to 50-70% of the overall science since you can learn a lot more in the lab than you would be able to otherwise. That and it seems like it diminishes the value of the lab a lot. It seems like the only point would be to use one for non-return missions where you would otherwise need to load a large number of goo or materials to do the science you were planning on where the mass of the extra experiments would outweigh the mass of the lab module.

Yeah, I think the ML could be a bit better. I tried hooking several together to see if their buffs added but, sadly, they didn't . But maybe someday Squad will change it somehow. But while it might not seem that useful, it has to be taken in context with the tech tree as a whole. By the time you're going interplanetary and really have a use for the ML, you don't have much left of the tech tree anyway, and it's adequate for finishing it off without much ado.

The ML isn't a technically a non-return thing, though. It won't work unless you put 2 Kerbals in it (not included by default). So unless you're into stranding guys in space, you can't avoid the return trip for the ML or at least its crew.

So far, I find the ML useful only as the core of a mothership that can pass through several new SOIs on its trip. In each SOI, it can do both high and low orbit experiments and transmit them. It can also transmit whatever a dockable lander brings back from the surface. Even with the 40% cap on transmitted value, that's still a lot of points. For instance, I sent one to Duna yesterday just to transmit high and low orbit stuff from Duna and Ike. That got about 1400 points.

On your first point without the ML, with the transmission limitation, is that one transmission per location, per ship still allow a transmission AND a return? So for example I could transmit an EVA report from LKO, log another EVA report from LKO and return the report for more science than just returning the report would have netted?

No, can't do that. After you transmit an EVA or crew report from a given location, you can't do that same report again with the same ship on the same mission. But you CAN move to a new location and do those reports again there.

[Skorpychan]

Technically, if they're up there working, they aren't stranded. And nothing says you can't rotate crews periodically.