Four things for pro KGV*

[Wahgineer]

Like the picture posted earlier, the best way to put a kerbal into the game is to give them a rounder face, slimmer body (as in narrower. If you look closely at the second set of female kerbals, you can see that they are thinner than their male counterparts.), maybe a ponytail or slightly longer hair, and more female sounding names (like Abby, Lena, Jenna, Karina, etc.). All it would take is a couple dozen lines of code and a couple minutes in the 3d modeling program and *viola!* non stereotypical, non sexist female kerbals. It's as simple as that.

[SpaceGremlin]

This whole discussion is completely pointless. There has been no indication that Kerbals have any kind of gender dimorphism (or gender even, they might reproduce by releasing a cloud of spores for all we know).

[jcraft]

I completely understand, especially as she is a young girl. But you would think outright refusing to play the game is a little over the top.

But on the whole, it would be nice if she could pick a female Kerbal, even if the only difference is a female first name and a slightly different shaped face.

And this all what is needed - female names, differently shaped face, and also as a bonus slightly different shaped body - and we have female kerbals. No need for anything more.

[Scrogdog]

This whole discussion is completely pointless. There has been no indication that Kerbals have any kind of gender dimorphism (or gender even, they might reproduce by releasing a cloud of spores for all we know).

Again, it's a marketing issue as far as I am concerned. It may be The Kerbal Space Program but it is still run by a human.

[I_Killed_Jeb]

wow some of the posts in here are truly terrifying

[jcraft]

While they add that, we might as well have Kerbals with mustaches and lighter green colors and darker green, as jcraft said in the quoted text above.

Well, we already have ONE kerbal with a moustache - just go to science archive (or rocket building tutorial)

[Klingon Admiral]

Or people could just get it in their heads that kerbals don't have gender. Just because they dont appear female, does not mean that they are male.

I still insist on my theory that Kerbals have multiple genders, but posess no sexual dimorphism. Who says that Dubdol or Lomal are no female names on Kerbin?

In this case, female Kerbals choose the mate with the biggest rocket. (double entendre very much intended)

[SpaceToast]

Different body and face structure. That's it. Here is a great example how female kerbal could look like (Timmon26 sketch):

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2296/comparisonm.jpg

Hey - that works!

[richiespeed13]

I think that sketch is really good, fits and isn't over the top.

[-RanZ-]

That, and the highly masculine facial features...

If my 8 year old cousin has no interest in KSP because she doesn't want to play a game that only has boys in it, then that is a clear sign to me that something needs to be changed.

Exactly why Kerbals do not need females... the drama will just hold back the space program!

[_Aramchek_]

Not this again...there is zero reason there should or needs to be female kerbals in the game.

You can play dating fun simulator 2000 the next time EA releases it's next "rpg themed" crapfest game.

[Starwhip]

No idea if this was already posted but: Why would such a thing matter at this stage? Who cares, anyway, when things (like the remnants of the Kraken and optimizations) are a better use of time? Or how about IVA interiors? All of these are more important at the moment. Perhaps once we get to BETA stage (not even out of alpha yet) this could be added.

[S4qFBxkFFg]

...and kerbals with beards/moustaches...

I agree with your other points, but if you think kerbals never have facial hair, check out Wernher Von Kerman's moustache next time you're in the science archives. (In response to the "they're not male or female" argument, does anyone seriously imagine Wernher to be of indeterminate gender?)

However, as someone else said, although I think it's important we get female kerbals (for several reasons) there are more important things the game needs (e.g. better aerodynamics). It's probably sensible for it to be implemented when the IVAs get improved and we can see more of all the crew.

[Luckless]

Not this again...there is zero reason there should or needs to be female kerbals in the game.

You can play dating fun simulator 2000 the next time EA releases it's next "rpg themed" crapfest game.

Except it is an issue that is brought up in the real world.

"Why do all the players look male?" has been a question posed to me by mothers on multiple occasions when I've pitched KSP as a good game for their kids. My younger cousin wants a female crew because she wants to play a game that includes characters more like herself.

Sticking your head in the sand and screaming "It doesn't matter!" doesn't change the fact that it Does matter. And it matters to a lot of people. It is not a hard fix, does not need any advanced interaction or characterization. Yes, it is purely cosmetic, and has no impact on the game play, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have an impact on how the game is perceived by many people.

[_Aramchek_]

Except it is an issue that is brought up in the real world.

This has no context to the game world, despite your thinking it does.

KSP is not the "real world" and no one is held back or discriminated against by there not being female kerbals IN game.

Please try to keep the straw men under check.

There is no need for female kerbals in game, it has ZERO genuine effect on anything and does not equate to gender discrimination. To suggest it does it patently ridiculous. AND hurts the cause out in the real world.

[jcraft]

I agree with your other points, but if you think kerbals never have facial hair, check out Wernher Von Kerman's moustache next time you're in the science archives. (In response to the "they're not male or female" argument, does anyone seriously imagine Wernher to be of indeterminate gender?)

Yes, I am fully aware of his existence since he first time appeared in the game (with addition of tutorial scenarios). But that it is just one kerbal - and I want kerbals with glorious moustaches on my spaceships .

However, as someone else said, although I think it's important we get female kerbals (for several reasons) there are more important things the game needs (e.g. better aerodynamics). It's probably sensible for it to be implemented when the IVAs get improved and we can see more of all the crew.

No idea if this was already posted but: Why would such a thing matter at this stage? Who cares, anyway, when things (like the remnants of the Kraken and optimizations) are a better use of time? Or how about IVA interiors? All of these are more important at the moment. Perhaps once we get to BETA stage (not even out of alpha yet) this could be added.

Yes, of course - I never implied that we need female kerbals NOW (or any other "more diversity in how kerbal looks" feature in general) - this type of addition is mostly aesthetic and should not be prioritized over really important features (like proper aerodynamics or carrier mode) - on the other hand Squad already focused (partially at least) some updates on aesthetic site of the game in the past (like general graphic overhaul in 0.17 I believe and of course new shiny space center models in 0.21).

Edited December 19, 2013 by jcraft

[Luckless]

This has no context to the game world, despite your thinking it does.

KSP is not the "real world" and no one is held back or discriminated against by there not being female kerbals IN game.

Please try to keep the straw men under check.

There is no need for female kerbals in game, it has ZERO genuine effect on anything and does not equate to gender discrimination. To suggest it does it patently ridiculous. AND hurts the cause out in the real world.

Whether or not someone buys a copy of KSP for their kid is very much a real world context kind of thing. It has been noted, and there is real world displeasure among some potential customers.

The issue brought up in the real world is That KSP does not have female characters. It is not a game play issue, it is a market perception issue. And frankly the opposition to it among users is by far worse than the simple lack of it having been added.

[42undead2]

''Why do all the Kerbals look male?'' Because they are aliens and just so happened to be looking like that?

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Whether or not someone buys a copy of KSP for their kid is very much a real world context kind of thing. It has been noted, and there is real world displeasure among some potential customers.

The issue brought up in the real world is That KSP does not have female characters. It is not a game play issue, it is a market perception issue. And frankly the opposition to it among users is by far worse than the simple lack of it having been added.

Completely. Especially KSP is making inroads in schools, and the real need to encourage more women in science this kind of attitude by the playerbase is truly disheartening and disturbing

[BubbaWilkins]

I can't believe anyone would have anything against female Kerbals (regardless how they make them - adding hair or eyelashes or just making their heads more round...).

The way I see it, more diversity is always better.

Forced diversity is nothing more than another form of discrimination. Certainly a lesser form than traditional racism or sexism, but discrimination nonetheless.

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Forced diversity is nothing more than another form of discrimination. Certainly a lesser form than traditional racism or sexism, but discrimination nonetheless.

Jesus christ man are you really arguing that genders in a space game is forced diversity?

[Rowsdower]

May I remind you all to please tread carefully in this thread. It's a touchy subject and things can get out of hand quickly. Let's not cross the line, ok?

[Ravenchant]

...it is impossible to tell females from males. Yes, there are female kerbalonauts. They just don't show you.

Fair enough. Giving "female" Kerbals, dunno, long hair and eyelashes would pretty much be the worst decision possible. However, slight variations in facial proportions could go a long way. Kind of like in the sketch, just without slimmer bodies- we don't see them under the bulky suits anyway.

There are female names in the generator. Names like Loding, and such sound more female than male.

Bwuh? I've never seen a female-sounding name in the generator, and the "proper name" list only contains male ones. Then again, except for rare occasions, all ethnic female names in our country end with -a, so there may be some bias...

[Luckless]

Forced diversity is nothing more than another form of discrimination. Certainly a lesser form than traditional racism or sexism, but discrimination nonetheless.

No one is forcing you to play with them. If you don't like them, don't hire them from the recruitment pool. Ignore them after they're added and pretend kerbals are an advanced genderless fungus and they all happen to look vaguely male if it makes you happy.

Personally, I want my little cousin to play the game, and not constantly bug me about why she can't have a female crew commander on her missions.

[Whirligig Girl]

Ignore this please

Edited December 19, 2013 by GregroxMun