Is KSP becoming like Minecraft?

[Spartan125]

I think ksp is going in the right direction because although things like new and configurable planets, realistic aerodynamics and resources have been achieved very successfully by FAR, RSS, Kethane, etc... But multiplayer mods are at best very buggy and incompatible with other mods. Going for multiplayer and economy is probably the best course for now because they might as well tackle the things that are the most difficult and have had little attention other than as suggestions.

[iDan122]

Remember:

They are not required to listen to the community at all.

They are not required to make the game available in its alpha state.

I also agree that we don't need a new planet. I've played 200+ hours and I haven't gone beyond Duna yet.

If you think the game is really lacking, then maybe there's a mod adding to it? Squad have made it very easy to install mods, so make the most of it.

1. Most people play without mods, as well as me. Mods are glitchy and you never know if their developer will continue updating it.

2.A new planet would motivate people to learn to go interplanetary and get to that new planet.

Too bad they didn't give us a present-planet like last year. We didn't get anything this year which saddens me.

Most games add a Christmas special into their games, strangely, KSP is an exception.

[KasperVld]

...

I think you're trying to sound very rational here, but you're misinterpreting and misrepresenting several things in your post.

When someone loads up KSP 0.20 (the last version before career mode) they load up their screen to the space center and open the VAB. If I had started with the amount of parts that are thrown in front of people in sandbox, I would've been lost and probably not given this game a second look. Career mode not only fixes this issue by letting players discover parts a few at a time, but it also adds a gameplay element, most of which we haven't seen yet. I'm referring to the contracts, reputation and money that have been planned for 0.24. You say this sort of thing (and I assume game modes like multiplayer) are "non-essential", which may be true for someone with your personal preferences but it's definitely not true for the game as a whole.

Many people like multiplayer and have requested it for a long time. Apparently, the devs liked multiplayer as well and they made the decision to go for it. The announcement for that came at the same time they announced that resources had been "idefinitely shelved" which may make it appear that one replaced the other but if you read between the lines that simply isn't true: they tried resources, they put a lot of work into it, and they found that it wasn't fun to do and that it didn't fit in well with the rest of the game. Given the original timeframes to implement resources I'd say we're looking at about 6-9 months ago when they realised this. Multiplayer however was only recently proven possible, and I know for a fact that things went fast from there on out. The two are not simultanious developments and are not linked to eachother.

You quote the devs saying that new celestial bodies are "not needed", but I'd like a source on that quote. To the best of my knowledge there will still be new celestial bodies but only after they've finished most of the work on career mode. You also confuse what "is needed" with what "we want", which are two very different things. A developer can't always focus on what people want because then gameplay mechanics would never mature and players would be left with an astonishing amount of content that really doesn't work too well. You also seem to suggest that you know what "we want" and the developers don't, which is quite a bold statement. Squad isn't not adding a planet because they can't, but because they choose not to.

As for the polls on the forums, anyone with a basic understanding in statistics will tell you that the results on those polls are highly skewed: people who want to see things change are far more likely to read the threads and to vote on the polls. The forum community is made up of only a small part of KSP's players, and is likely very different in composition from the whole population. I understand why people make those polls, and that some people are disappointed with the harsh reality that it's not them designing KSP but the developers, but they're in no way representative of what the average KSP player thinks.

Concluding, I think your last sentences show the real intent of this post: "I love KSP but I hate where it is going since hearing of the devs' plans at kerbalkon". You're trying to voice your discontent. Which is of course your right, but do consider that your opinion will differ from a lot of people, and that misrepresenting facts won't help with the credibility of your complaint.

P.S.

As for minecraft vs KSP, I agree with the people who pointed out that where Minecraft started catering to the wishes of the community, KSP doesn't. They're taking completely opposite paths.

[Arran]

I am not saying the game is horrible right now, no, it is great, but Squad isn't choosing the right priorities in KSP's development in my opinion. The devs said the "community is everything to them" so why don't they then just listen to it?

It would have been clearer if they just said "we will do what WE want and we don't care about what you think".

HMM, they are adding multiplayer, it was for weeks, not so for months they topic of many, its was even a bigger outcry for MP as for resources.

Now they are adding MP and pushed resourced much further down the line, since the draft setup for resources is scrapped (they never said resrouces is out, just the draft they had is scrapped) and now people suddenly cry we need resourses..

So they have listened to the community, but somehow the community doesnt seem to listen themself, and only hear what they want to hear.

And if they dont get it know and right away, and not enough new goodies that can touch, topics like this are created.

I have more as enough believe in SQUAD that they will give us in 1-3 years a good polished fun game, with more stuff added as we have now.

Till then just have patience, and be glad you can play this gem of a game.

And if you are bored, well MODS are in abundance to enhance your gameexpierence in KSP, and if thats not enough maybe play something on the side.

And some people are just hard to please..

The game isnt finished, we all know this, and even in its current state, i think its more polished as some A titles that are allready released.

Now that all i had to say, back to preparing Xmas dinner

Merry X-mas All!!

[Andrew Hansen]

It's impossible for the developers to make everyone happy. Some people want some things and some want others. Personally, I'm happy where Kerbal Space Program is headed. I know that when you're in charge of a project, you really have to follow your own path or things won't turn out well. If you listen to what everybody wants and try to implement it, you'll never go anywhere. When you're in charge of a project, you have to have a firm plan laid out about what you're going to do. That's exactly what HarvesteR has done.

Also, I don't know if it's just me, but it appears to me that the developers do make a lot of decisions based on what the community wants. For example, there was a lot of feedback after 0.22 about the science system and some changes that would be nice, and in 0.23 we got those changes (removed the ability to spam science, added the ability to transfer science, for a few examples).

Additionally, resources haven't been "scrapped" or "abandoned." Right now there's just more important things to do, like finishing up Career mode more. Career mode is what allows players to more quickly learn the game. It adds structure to the game. And if for some reason you don't like Career mode, you're still free to play Sandbox. Adding more game modes is never a bad thing, in my opinion.

Regarding additional planets, I think that adding more detail to the existing planets and polishing them up is more important than just adding more. Sure, you can add many spheres of many sizes to the game, but it'll be an exciting day to me when Laythe has volcanic activity added to it. Or when magnetic fields are added. Stuff like that.

[stupid_chris]

Additionally, resources haven't been "scrapped" or "abandoned." Right now there's just more important things to do, like finishing up Career mode more. Career mode is what allows players to more quickly learn the game. It adds structure to the game. And if for some reason you don't like Career mode, you're still free to play Sandbox. Adding more game modes is never a bad thing, in my opinion.

About that: resources are actually shelved for good, it's not a myth.

[SkyHook]

KSP is absolutely NOT like minecraft. They suffer from similar issues, but Minecraft's creator is rolling in so much money that developing the game would be kind of silly. Harvester is not the same way. I don't think he will pull a Notch. I wholeheartedly disagree with the planned direction of the game, but it is NOT going the way of Minecraft. It's still in development, however insignificant the updates have been since 0.18 (with the exception of 0.22).

[stupid_chris]

KSP is absolutely NOT like minecraft. They suffer from similar issues, but Minecraft's creator is rolling in so much money that developing the game would be kind of silly. Harvester is not the same way. I don't think he will pull a Notch. I wholeheartedly disagree with the planned direction of the game, but it is NOT going the way of Minecraft. It's still in development, however insignificant the updates have been since 0.18 (with the exception of 0.22).

The updates have been insignificant? Let me just take the most common example: .20

Everyone bashed on .20. "No content" they said. .20 is what brought us the GameDatabase, or what is known as the GameData folder to most of us. While that seems like a small thing, that brough HUGE change in the background. This is what brought forward config nodes. ModuleManager would be impossible without GameDatabase. Modular Fuels would be impossible without GameDatabase. An insane amount of things are possible thanks to GameDatabase. Calling .20 the "flag" or the "seats" update is very diminishing to the actual amount of work put into it, and it's much more than it actually seems like. This applies to each update since .18. The updates have been far from insignificant, and they have all been a considerable step towards the final release.

[iDan122]

The updates have been insignificant? Let me just take the most common example: .20

Everyone bashed on .20. "No content" they said. .20 is what brought us the GameDatabase, or what is known as the GameData folder to most of us. While that seems like a small thing, that brough HUGE change in the background. This is what brought forward config nodes. ModuleManager would be impossible without GameDatabase. Modular Fuels would be impossible without GameDatabase. An insane amount of things are possible thanks to GameDatabase. Calling .20 the "flag" or the "seats" update is very diminishing to the actual amount of work put into it, and it's much more than it actually seems like. This applies to each update since .18. The updates have been far from insignificant, and they have all been a considerable step towards the final release.

All i remember 0.20 for are seats, the game data folder never mattered to me.

0.18 and 0.17 were probably the most significant updates yet.

[SkyHook]

The updates have been insignificant? Let me just take the most common example: .20

Everyone bashed on .20. "No content" they said. .20 is what brought us the GameDatabase, or what is known as the GameData folder to most of us. While that seems like a small thing, that brough HUGE change in the background. This is what brought forward config nodes. ModuleManager would be impossible without GameDatabase. Modular Fuels would be impossible without GameDatabase. An insane amount of things are possible thanks to GameDatabase. Calling .20 the "flag" or the "seats" update is very diminishing to the actual amount of work put into it, and it's much more than it actually seems like. This applies to each update since .18. The updates have been far from insignificant, and they have all been a considerable step towards the final release.

Perhaps I was unclear. The updates have been important, but lack the addition of features to game is at best frustrating, and can make a playerbase grumpy. Maybe I'm asking too much by just wanting something to do once I land.

Edited December 25, 2013 by SkyHook

[r4pt0r]

this is your attitude towards our lovely alpha game. http://media0.giphy.com/media/vO8F4fYQd39h6/giphy.gif

cut the devs a whole lot of slack, they owe you nothing. if the current universe build sticks till the final version so be it. if they add more all the better.

Edited December 25, 2013 by stupid_chris
second warning: no reaction images please. Do not reedit.

[stupid_chris]

All i remember 0.20 for are seats, the game data folder never mattered to me.

0.18 and 0.17 were probably the most significant updates yet.

GameDatabase != the GameData folder. GameDatabase is so much more than that. It's insanely important, not only for mods, but for a lot of core aspects of the gameplay. Science uses a lot of aspects that were introduced at first in .20. The whole progresss tracking system, that is arguably the biggest amount of code added to KSP in an update, that one being .21, would be much harder to set up without GameDatabase. It's a huge thing, and it's not because you are not seeing the direct effects of it that it means it's bad. It needed to be done to progress, and regardless that you see it or not.

Perhaps I was unclear. The updates have been important, but lack the addition of features to game is at best frustrating, and can make a playerbase grumpy. Maybe I'm asking too much by just wanting something to do once I land.

At that point, they needed to do some tremendous backend and behind the scenes work to start adding some more features. It might be frustrating, but like I said, GameDatabase is at the core of a lot of the new features we see today, and the awesome content wise update that was .22 could only take this form because of the work that was previously put.

It's lame, but that is how goes game development, all is not axed on "more planets, more parts, more features". It's axed on completing the game, and sometimes, you have to leave assets aside and work on the code behind all of it so that it all works.

[iDan122]

this is your attitude towards our lovely alpha game. http://media0.giphy.com/media/vO8F4fYQd39h6/giphy.gif

cut the devs a whole lot of slack, they owe you nothing. if the current universe build sticks till the final version so be it. if they add more all the better.

The game is in alpha and it is to be finished if they want to sell it in big amounts.

N my opinion, the way it is planned to be developed is wrong, they will waste time on the features which aren't fun, like career, but not planets or procedurally generated planets/stars which will be generated the same for everyone(thanks to seeds like in Minecraft) and resources and mining which would be a big leap in the game since 0.18. Imagine being able to actually do a stock grand tour!

[Superfluous J]

All i remember 0.20 for are seats, the game data folder never mattered to me.

0.18 and 0.17 were probably the most significant updates yet.

Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean it doesn't matter. A lot of people are very glad the GameData folder exists. I get far more use out of it than I ever will get out of Multiplayer.

You want stuff. You got some stuff. Other people want features, they get those. Some people want optimizations. Lookie there, they got that too. By your logic, they should ALL be (and from reading the forums it seems they ARE) dissatisfied.

[stupid_chris]

N my opinion, the way it is planned to be developed is wrong

Interested to know the foundations and arguments behind this opinion.

[r4pt0r]

The game is in alpha and it is to be finished if they want to sell it in big amounts.

N my opinion, the way it is planned to be developed is wrong, they will waste time on the features which aren't fun, like career, but not planets or procedurally generated planets/stars which will be generated the same for everyone(thanks to seeds like in Minecraft) and resources and mining which would be a big leap in the game since 0.18. Imagine being able to actually do a stock grand tour!

there will never be procedural generated planets/stars and no seed system. everyone who plays ksp gets the same solar system, that's how the devs said they want it. and if they have permanently dropped pursuing resources as chris said, then your only option is mods for that. as for your distaste for career mode(which is going to get even more awsome) i would suggest playing sandbox mode. or uninstall, either is fine. merry christmas

[swiftgates24]

They are still listening to what we say, just not as much, which is fine with me.

[Galileo Kerbonaut]

I jumped on the boat at version 0.19 so I've played 5 iterations of KSP now. All I see is progress, be it in gameplay or optimization (which is just as important). I think if Squad has come this far, we need to have a little more faith in the direction they are going. After all, they've already made the best game ever.

It's easy to be grumpy because the feature you want will not be implemented the way you want it, but if Squad has to cater everybody's personal needs there will never be a final KSP version and it will go in any direction except forwards. Someone has to steer the boat and I think they're doing a fine job.

For all your personal needs I like to redirect you to the spaceport.

[LaydeeDem]

The updates have been insignificant? Let me just take the most common example: .20

Everyone bashed on .20. "No content" they said. .20 is what brought us the GameDatabase, or what is known as the GameData folder to most of us. While that seems like a small thing, that brough HUGE change in the background. This is what brought forward config nodes. ModuleManager would be impossible without GameDatabase. Modular Fuels would be impossible without GameDatabase. An insane amount of things are possible thanks to GameDatabase. Calling .20 the "flag" or the "seats" update is very diminishing to the actual amount of work put into it, and it's much more than it actually seems like. This applies to each update since .18. The updates have been far from insignificant, and they have all been a considerable step towards the final release.

Except multiplayer is not an important background feature. I would love if the devs did a whole update adding background things like partmodules, confignodes, and GameDatabase. But now suddenly something stupid like multiplayer is priority, and other features "unimportant".

[Liowen]

The game is in alpha and it is to be finished if they want to sell it in big amounts.

N my opinion, the way it is planned to be developed is wrong, they will waste time on the features which aren't fun, like career, but not planets or procedurally generated planets/stars which will be generated the same for everyone(thanks to seeds like in Minecraft) and resources and mining which would be a big leap in the game since 0.18. Imagine being able to actually do a stock grand tour!

Well there are three solutions to this problem:

Firstly design your own game and let the community, not you or your staff, design every element. A developer I know made a valid point a long time ago, the community may think it knows what it wants, but if they got it they would be unhappy with the results. Basically he was getting at was stating is that no matter what a developer does there will always be a percentage of people who will find a reason to complain.

Second just stop playing for awhile. Sometimes the best way to look at a game you feel is going the wrong way, or you might not be enjoying anymore is to take a break from it for awhile. Let a couple of patches go by before you start back up again. Who knows you might actually enjoy the content once you have not been playing it as much.

Third install a mod that gives you what you want already. This sounds odd to say but some games actually have things built after a mod has become popular, it is usually a MMO thing but I am starting to hear of it more and more in single player games as well. With a game that gives players to customize their experience to what they want to have is actually one of the best features I feel this games offers. It is at just the right difficulty for new players to learn at without much to worry about, yet can be modded to make the game more challenging as they feel the need.

To me I feel more optimization of the current game is needed, this will get more players who might not have gaming platform computers. While more bodies would be a great thing to add down the road, right now it is a good balance to fine tune what is here before adding in more. It is better to have a strong base to add small changes to later as it makes it easier than having a hug base with flaws that all have to be fixed at once when something goes bad. From what I have seen so far, before buying the game myself, this appears to be the path that SQUAD has taken, and as the community grows it will become harder for them to listen to them as they will be getting a few good ideas and some zany ones as well (Like my want for intergalactic travel I know it will never be but it would be fun to me). After watching the chat from Kerbalkon I have to say they have more patience by far than I would for the way this community has been acting, lots of demands and very little thanks from the vast majority. Not to mention with the holidays going on right now you are not going to be getting much from them as they have families that I am sure they would like to send time with just as much as anyone else.

Take this how you want, I am just offering up what I have seen so far and when I get tired of playing I will stop and wait a few patches to see what has changed. For now I am going to enjoy the game as it is as I enjoy it right now.

[stupid_chris]

Except multiplayer is not an important background feature. I would love if the devs did a whole update adding background things like partmodules, confignodes, and GameDatabase. But now suddenly something stupid like multiplayer is priority, and other features "unimportant".

As far as I know, career mode is still the number one priority. Multiplayer is an objective, which is far different from what you are stating there.

[LethalDose]

Is this thread "Is KSP becoming like Minecraft?" or is it really "Is KSP's development becoming like Minecraft's development?"? It really sounds like the latter more than the former.

First, I still completely fail to understand the forum's seemingly widespread view that Minecraft is a bad game. It's fun, it's clever, and it's creative. What's in the game is excellent and it's still being well supported.

Similarly, KSP is a good game. It could be better. Resources, if implemented well, could improve the game much more than well-implemented multiplayer.

Just because you got a new planet as a surprise last year, doesn't mean you should expect one this year. You got RAPIERs instead. Deal with it.

Based on my previous posts, it should be obvious I disagree with SQUAD's multiplayer and resource decisions. However, they didn't state they got rid of resources to pursue multiplayer, they presented it as independent decisions. Obviously, there are only so many resources to go around, but in this case, one didn't lead to the other.

At least the way they presented it. That could all be BS.

I am extremely disappointed in the direction that SQUAD indicated they were planning on taking the game at the 'Kon, and, with few exceptions, most of SQUAD's responses to the community's outrage disappointment have had a very condescending "you're supposed to accept [insert statement here] as true cause we said so" tone.

Hopefully communication between the devs and community will improve in the coming weeks, and both sides can understand the other's PoV. Maybe then the game will be back on track.

[pigletx2]

And two last things. 1: we. ARE. THE. VOCAL. MINORITY. Most players of KSP don't us the forums at all, other than for getting mods. That's how I was when I started out.

And 2: Multiplayer can only be added after a certain point. After that, the code becomes way to complex to even think of adding it. After career mode is done, that's the perfect time to add it, as updates from here on out will most likely only be changes to the planet system(A whole new solar system or two, with the sun being a object which can orbit things,possibly even dual star systems where all the planets are really far from the starts!), new parts, and resources. That's probably it, after multiplayer. Then we get DLC (GALAXIES! IMPORT KERBAL CREATOR STUFF! GENDERED KERBALS! OTHER STUFF!) (At least I hope.)

[LethalDose]

About that: resources are actually shelved for good, it's not a myth.

Has there been another announcement on this in the last week? This is absolutely not how this post by Harv reads. It says they have ideas for mining/resources, but don't want to talk about them right now and focus elsewhere.

Posts like this cause some serious confusion in the community: Some mods state that the mods don't have inside info about the game, but then mods will make these concrete statements that don't seem to have any support based on what's been published in official SQUAD posts.

[stupid_chris]

Has there been another announcement on this in the last week? This is absolutely not how this post by Harv reads. It says they have ideas for mining/resources, but don't want to talk about them right now and focus elsewhere.

Posts like this cause some serious confusion in the community: Some mods state that the mods don't have inside info about the game, but then mods will make these concrete statements that don't seem to have any support based on what's been published in official SQUAD posts.

This reply right after clears it out pretty well.