[1.8+] Real Fuels

[SpaceHungryMan]

First off, fantastic mod. Must have. Thank you for all the hard work! Second, I noticed that Vernor engines are not currently supported by Real Fuels. Is that correct? Is that because they are considered fictitious?

Are you talking about Squad's Vernor engines? I thought they were supported. Which engine pack are you using?

[undercoveryankee]

First off, fantastic mod. Must have. Thank you for all the hard work! Second, I noticed that Vernor engines are not currently supported by Real Fuels. Is that correct? Is that because they are considered fictitious?

The core RealFuels distribution configures tanks and leaves engine support to be handled by your choice of engine pack. See if the engine pack you're using has plans to do a config for the Vernor.

[jerb]

The core RealFuels distribution configures tanks and leaves engine support to be handled by your choice of engine pack. See if the engine pack you're using has plans to do a config for the Vernor.

Ah, thanks, sorry it's been a while since I set this game up. I'm using Stockalike Real Fuels Engine Configs which does not seem to include the vernor. Or at least it doesn't seem to be supported in my game and I don't see it in here https://github.com/Raptor831/RFStockalike/blob/master/GameData/RealFuels/StockAlike_RCS_RF.cfg I'll go ask them about it. Thanks!

[SpaceHungryMan]

Hello.

I was hoping could enlighten me a little about how Real Fuels handles ModuleEngineConfigs. Specifically, is it possible to support fuel switching for multi-mode engines?

For example, Space-Y's R5 Engine Cluster can toggle between two modes: AllEngines and CenterOff. What I want is to be able to choose fuel mixtures to each mode. How it currently works is the "main" mode (AllEngines) has the ability to switch fuels while the "secondary" mode can only use one fuel mixture.

I've tried playing around with the configs a bit and I can't seem to get it working. Is there a way to assign ModuleEngineConfigs to a specific engine mode?

Thanks!

[Raptor831]

Hello.

I was hoping could enlighten me a little about how Real Fuels handles ModuleEngineConfigs. Specifically, is it possible to support fuel switching for multi-mode engines?

For example, Space-Y's R5 Engine Cluster can toggle between two modes: AllEngines and CenterOff. What I want is to be able to choose fuel mixtures to each mode. How it currently works is the "main" mode (AllEngines) has the ability to switch fuels while the "secondary" mode can only use one fuel mixture.

I've tried playing around with the configs a bit and I can't seem to get it working. Is there a way to assign ModuleEngineConfigs to a specific engine mode?

Thanks!

Yeah, we were discussing this on the Stockalike repo. It'd be ideal if there were some way to tie the config to both modes, so we wouldn't have any confusion or clutter in the VAB/SPH. But, I'll take "just works" if I can get it.

[NathanKell]

There are two ways to do this:

1. Replace MultiModeEngine and its two ModuleEnginesFX with a single ModuleEnginesFX and ModuleHybridEngine module. That lets you switch configurations on the fly (it's basically a ModuleEngineConfigs where you can change config in flight). That is suboptimal in this instance.

2. Add two ModuleEngineConfigs modules. In one of them, add engineID = (engineID of the first engine) and vice versa for the other. You will then get two GUIs in the editor, so you'll have to select the same fuel mode for both, but...does what you want.

(A few versions back I added support for multiple MECs on a single part. They can apply to a certain engineID or, if the part uses multiple ModuleEngines [with no ID] they can base off index.)

Here's an example, set up for SXT's X-405 engine.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/blob/master/GameData/RP-0/SXT_Engines.cfg

[SpaceHungryMan]

It works! Thank you

Raptor831, I'll submit the pull request as soon as I finish testing. Hopefully within the hour.

[Raptor831]

There are two ways to do this:

1. Replace MultiModeEngine and its two ModuleEnginesFX with a single ModuleEnginesFX and ModuleHybridEngine module. That lets you switch configurations on the fly (it's basically a ModuleEngineConfigs where you can change config in flight). That is suboptimal in this instance.

2. Add two ModuleEngineConfigs modules. In one of them, add engineID = (engineID of the first engine) and vice versa for the other. You will then get two GUIs in the editor, so you'll have to select the same fuel mode for both, but...does what you want.

(A few versions back I added support for multiple MECs on a single part. They can apply to a certain engineID or, if the part uses multiple ModuleEngines [with no ID] they can base off index.)

Here's an example, set up for SXT's X-405 engine.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/blob/master/GameData/RP-0/SXT_Engines.cfg

Wonderful. Now off to test...

EDIT: Ha! Ninja'd...

[Tellion]

Big thanks for the update!

[codepoet]

I believe that I am seeing a problem related to RF. I have a realism overhaul install with RSS, real fuels etc. (I will get details). In particular various aspects of the GUI cease to function when I use radially mounted detachment devices to hold side tanks, and then start changing the fuels in those side tanks. I know that is a bit value and unhelpful - I have started trying to create simple cases that reproduce my problems, and will add more details to this post as I go.

In the meantime...

I believe that I am on Real Fuels 0.8.4

here is the mod version info from AVC:

KSP: 0.90 (Win32) - Unity: 4.5.5f1 - OS: Windows 8.1 (6.3.9600) 64bit

Filter Extensions - 1.17

Contract Configurator - 0.6.6

Contract Pack: RemoteTech - 1.0.2

Contracts Window Plus - 1.0.3.4

Ferram Aerospace Research - 0.14.6

Kerbal Joint Reinforcement - 3.1.1

KSP-AVC Plugin - 1.1.5

Docking Port Alignment Indicator - 5.1

Procedural Parts - 1.0.2

RealChute - 1.2.6.3

RealismOverhaul - 7.0.7

RealSolarSystem - 8.5

RemoteTech - 1.6.3

TextureReplacer - 2.2.5

Kerbal Alarm Clock - 3.2.3

and here is an exception that is being logged a lot:

RF GUITanks exception System.ArgumentException: Getting control 1's position in a group with only 1 controls when doing Repaint

Aborting

at UnityEngine.GUILayoutGroup.GetNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at UnityEngine.GUILayoutUtility.DoGetRect (UnityEngine.GUIContent content, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style, UnityEngine.GUILayoutOption[] options) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at UnityEngine.GUILayoutUtility.GetRect (UnityEngine.GUIContent content, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style, UnityEngine.GUILayoutOption[] options) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at UnityEngine.GUILayout.DoLabel (UnityEngine.GUIContent content, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style, UnityEngine.GUILayoutOption[] options) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at UnityEngine.GUILayout.Label (System.String text, UnityEngine.GUILayoutOption[] options) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at RealFuels.ModuleFuelTanks.GUITanks () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

I will try to get more info, however I would be grateful for any steers as to which information would be helpful.

[FreeThinker]

Alright this is a important question.

What is the reason RealFuels uses STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH instead of STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW. What exactly is the difference?

[Starwaster]

Alright this is a important question.

What is the reason RealFuels uses STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH instead of STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW. What exactly is the difference?

STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH only drains from tanks in the current stage. (does not cross decouplers or parts that don't have cross feed)

STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW will drain from anywhere but prioritizes the current stage. (in other words tries not to drain from top stages even if the engine is mounted there, like RCS)

Edit:

STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW also works for radially mounted engines as is typical for RCS

Edited February 27, 2015 by Starwaster

[NathanKell]

Answered in the CRP thread. Apologies for delay.

[Inflectrum]

Is this mod compatible with TAC life support? I am having issues editing command pods after installing real fuels alongside TAC life support. With both installed, I can't right click on the command pod to edit what is in it. It starts off with the default life support items from TAC life support (food, water, oxygen), but nothing else, I am assuming it is waiting for me to select it's contents, but I am unable to.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Inflectrum

[MinimumSky5]

Is this mod compatible with TAC life support? I am having issues editing command pods after installing real fuels alongside TAC life support. With both installed, I can't right click on the command pod to edit what is in it. It starts off with the default life support items from TAC life support (food, water, oxygen), but nothing else, I am assuming it is waiting for me to select it's contents, but I am unable to.

I'm having a similar issue, DangIt and TAC both have their respective resources in the command pods, but MonoProp and ElectricCharge are both missing, which can cause real difficulties on re-entry (due to lack of reaction wheels).

[NathanKell]

Please make an issue on the repo so I don't forget to fix.

[SpaceHungryMan]

Hello Inflectrum, MinimumSky5

Do you guys use RFStockalike as well? If so, your Fuel_Conversions.cfg file may be outdated.

[Inflectrum]

Yea, I use stockalike, I use real fuels to use engine ignitor, but i'll try the realism version and see if the problem persists.

edit: nevermind, for that I need the realism overhaul for any problem gameplay, I am just looking for a harder version of stock.

Please make an issue on the repo so I don't forget to fix.

Done: https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/issues/76

Edited February 28, 2015 by Inflectrum

[Raptor831]

Yea, I use stockalike, I use real fuels to use engine ignitor, but i'll try the realism version and see if the problem persists.

edit: nevermind, for that I need the realism overhaul for any problem gameplay, I am just looking for a harder version of stock.

Done: https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/issues/76

I've pushed a new release for the Stockalike configs. Grab that from the repo (should be v2.1.3) and see if that works. If you have any more issues with it, stop by the Stockalike thread (link here) and let me know what's up.

[Inflectrum]

I've pushed a new release for the Stockalike configs. Grab that from the repo (should be v2.1.3) and see if that works. If you have any more issues with it, stop by the Stockalike thread (link here) and let me know what's up.

The update has solved the problem, thank you very much!

[Autochton]

I've spent a little time putting together RF configs for K-Yeon's excellent OPT space plane parts. They use FSFuelSwitcher (which I strip with MM), but I notice that e.g. the liquid-fuel only mode has a much lower fuel content per part. It seems like the idea was to provide more robust parts for atmospheric fuel content. I noticed, also, that there's both a Fuselage and a Structural tank type, with, according to a post I dug up by NathanKell, a better-than-ServiceModule structural strength for Fuselage, and an even stronger one for Structural. Is it possible to make parts have two possible tank types, and if so, how would one go about that? Also, what particular effects would this have? I've currently got the parts using the Fuselage type, and their fuel volume is based on the LiquidFuel/Oxidizer configs put in by K.Yeon. I figure the lower fuel volume of the LiquidFuel config (typically ~40% less units) would suit a stronger Structural tank type.

[Starwaster]

I've spent a little time putting together RF configs for K-Yeon's excellent OPT space plane parts. They use FSFuelSwitcher (which I strip with MM), but I notice that e.g. the liquid-fuel only mode has a much lower fuel content per part. It seems like the idea was to provide more robust parts for atmospheric fuel content. I noticed, also, that there's both a Fuselage and a Structural tank type, with, according to a post I dug up by NathanKell, a better-than-ServiceModule structural strength for Fuselage, and an even stronger one for Structural. Is it possible to make parts have two possible tank types, and if so, how would one go about that? Also, what particular effects would this have? I've currently got the parts using the Fuselage type, and their fuel volume is based on the LiquidFuel/Oxidizer configs put in by K.Yeon. I figure the lower fuel volume of the LiquidFuel config (typically ~40% less units) would suit a stronger Structural tank type.

I don't think that would work out. You would have to have two ModuleFuelTanks MODULEs on the part but you can only have one GUI for the tank(s) in the editor and it would only be operating on one MODULE in the best case scenario I can think of.

[Raptor831]

I've spent a little time putting together RF configs for K-Yeon's excellent OPT space plane parts. They use FSFuelSwitcher (which I strip with MM), but I notice that e.g. the liquid-fuel only mode has a much lower fuel content per part. It seems like the idea was to provide more robust parts for atmospheric fuel content. I noticed, also, that there's both a Fuselage and a Structural tank type, with, according to a post I dug up by NathanKell, a better-than-ServiceModule structural strength for Fuselage, and an even stronger one for Structural. Is it possible to make parts have two possible tank types, and if so, how would one go about that? Also, what particular effects would this have? I've currently got the parts using the Fuselage type, and their fuel volume is based on the LiquidFuel/Oxidizer configs put in by K.Yeon. I figure the lower fuel volume of the LiquidFuel config (typically ~40% less units) would suit a stronger Structural tank type.

You can't multiple volumes on a tank, but you can have multiple tank types available. Check the B9 Aerospace configs for Real Fuels (it's bundled in the mod), and you'll see some examples.

[Autochton]

You can't multiple volumes on a tank, but you can have multiple tank types available. Check the B9 Aerospace configs for Real Fuels (it's bundled in the mod), and you'll see some examples.

The 'typeAvailable' keyword seems to be the ticket, judging by those setups. It may also make sense to generate some specific tank types to use with these parts, but I'll see about that as I go. I do think I'll need to lean on some of the FSMeshSwitcher alteration stuff from B9 to get good results there - we shall see. Thanks, so far!

[Raptor831]

The 'typeAvailable' keyword seems to be the ticket, judging by those setups. It may also make sense to generate some specific tank types to use with these parts, but I'll see about that as I go. I do think I'll need to lean on some of the FSMeshSwitcher alteration stuff from B9 to get good results there - we shall see. Thanks, so far!

FSMeshSwitcher you can leave alone (as it simply changes the mesh/texture). To get varied fuel loads, you'd probably have to create new tank types and set each TANK within that to use different utilization numbers. It'd be a bit of work to get working. Probably your best bet is to clone the Default tank from RF, change the name to OPTDefault (or whatever), and then multiply the TANK utilization numbers by a scaling fraction (i.e. @utilization *= 0.5).