[1.8+] Real Fuels

cami · March 23, 2017

Im using both RealFuels and KerbalConstructionTime, and they dont integrate very well with respect to ignitions. Basically, after recovering your craft you have to rip off the engines and install completely new ones to refill ignitions. This has two drawbacks:

KCT cannot tell the difference between the used and the new part, so it underestimates the cost and time for the replacement (currently zero).
While kind of realistic, replacing engines one-by-one using the craft editor doesn't make a nice gameplay experience, especially when you also use TestFlight.

I was wondering whether ignitions could be modeled as a resource (with crossfeed rule = no crossfeed ever) that comes with its own cost. This immediately fixes cost and build time estimation, and KCT's "refill tanks" button would schedule refurbishment for all the engines at once. The downside is that the resource amount would likely have to be some part-dependent multiple of the number of ignitions, to account for size and complexity of the engine. It might also help other mods handle ignitions.

Edited March 23, 2017 by cami

Starwaster · March 23, 2017

3 hours ago, cami said:

Im using both RealFuels and KerbalConstructionTime, and they dont integrate very well with respect to ignitions. Basically, after recovering your craft you have to rip off the engines and install completely new ones to refill ignitions. This has two drawbacks:

KCT cannot tell the difference between the used and the new part, so it underestimates the cost and time for the replacement (currently zero).

While kind of realistic, replacing engines one-by-one using the craft editor doesn't make a nice gameplay experience, especially when you also use TestFlight.

I was wondering whether ignitions could be modeled as a resource (with crossfeed rule = no crossfeed ever) that comes with its own cost. This immediately fixes cost and build time estimation, and KCT's "refill tanks" button would schedule refurbishment for all the engines at once. The downside is that the resource amount would likely have to be some part-dependent multiple of the number of ignitions, to account for size and complexity of the engine. It might also help other mods handle ignitions.

Do you know if KCT defines any sort of game event for refurbishment / reconstruction?

mark7 · March 26, 2017

I find that RealFuel are now not compatible with Tweakscale, every time I try to scale down a fuel tank, its mass become negative. Can anyone confirm that?

Edited March 26, 2017 by mark7

Starwaster · March 26, 2017

3 hours ago, mark7 said:

I find that RealFuel are now not compatible with Tweakscale, every time I try to scale down a fuel tank, its mass become negative. Can anyone confirm that?

AFAIK the issue is fixed in the dev build but hasn't been released yet

Edited March 26, 2017 by Starwaster

mark7 · March 26, 2017

13 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

Can't confirm that. Though I am aware of issues reported with Tweakscale and negative mass (and possibly cost?)

I might have a development build of Tweakscale though (AFAIK the issue is fixed in the dev build but hasn't been released yet)

Well，TS guys tell me this is a known issue fixed in the dev version，thanks anyway！

cami · March 27, 2017

On 23.3.2017 at 8:54 PM, Starwaster said:

Do you know if KCT defines any sort of game event for refurbishment / reconstruction?

Refurbishment is basically an instance of the VAB, where the recovered vessel is loaded and clicking launch starts the "refurbishment process" which is basically a timer ticking down before you can actually launch the craft. The KCT dev told me they could also just reset the number of ignitions to whatever it is on a new, virgin instance of the part when the ship is refueled in this VAB instance. It's a bit hackish, but then it would not need to be handled by RF.

The remaining problem is to estimate how long the timer should tick. Without RF, liquid engines are infinitely restartable so it makes sense you can reuse them instantly. Engines with limited ignitions could be designed anything ranging from basically controlled self-destructing to full reusability (swap/refuel the ignitors and done).

Edit: I've just learned that KCT implemented some hook for RF integration. They are now firing an event before KCT calculates how long it takes to build something. It would allow RF to include the ignitions variable, so KCT would at least notice the difference of replacing a used engine by a pristine one. I guess that would work as intended for expendible engines (refurbishment = construct new) and restartable ones (refurbishment = do nothing). It probably wouldn't work out of the box for engines like the Merlin 1C, which ideally just needs a TEA/TEB refill to restore ignitions.

Edited March 27, 2017 by cami

Starwaster · March 27, 2017

55 minutes ago, cami said:

The remaining problem is to estimate how long the timer should tick. Without RF, liquid engines are infinitely restartable so it makes sense you can reuse them instantly. Engines with limited ignitions could be designed anything ranging from basically controlled self-destructing to full reusability (swap/refuel the ignitors and done).

There are several factors involved with ignition limits; (self destruction shouldn't be a factor here)

Resource replenishment on the engine/motor. (this would be replacement of spark plugs or replenishment of hypergolic ignitors)
Resource replenishment in the tanks. (pressurants such as gaseous helium used to re-pressurize the tank)
Refurbishment of the rocket motor itself.

The first two require as much time as it takes to supply any other part with resources. The last one (refurbishment) would probably be months but could also be whatever KCT devs arbitrarily decide that it is. It should be however long any other engine is that they don't have to reset ignitions on.

cami · March 28, 2017

16 hours ago, Starwaster said:

The first two require as much time as it takes to supply any other part with resources. The last one (refurbishment) would probably be months but could also be whatever KCT devs arbitrarily decide that it is. It should be however long any other engine is that they don't have to reset ignitions on.

@Starwaster that's exactly what I had in mind. On the gameplay side, I'd really like to compare refurbishment to just throwing the thing away and building a new one. I know that it can sometimes take even longer to refurbish than to rebuild, especially if the engine was not designed for reuse. But I don't have enough background in rocketry to decide for individual engines, especially those that never were refurbished in reality. I think I could try to categorize between expendible and reusible, and assume that expendible ones are really just thrown away and rebuilt from scratch, while reusable ones are just replenished with ignitors (I won't deal with tanks as that math has already been done by KCT).

It would be very helpful if reusability would be a property declared within the ModuleEnginesRF module, and defined by each part definition (mostly because the ignitions property works that way), even if by default, it is always just 100% for infinitely restartable engines and 0% otherwise. That could be worked up from.

Edited March 28, 2017 by cami

Starwaster · April 2, 2017

Here's a new PhysicsGlobals patch to try: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pglbjmm5a0lchj0/PhysicsGlobalsTweaks.cfg?dl=1

The goal of it is to make skin-internal the dominant source of heat transfer instead of part-part.

so you don't get megawatts worth of heat pouring into your poor little hydrogen tanks

This is a fairly major overhaul of the thermodynamics system from a conduction standpoint that ultimately I intend to submit to Realism Overhaul.

It's still early stages and may need some tweaking calibrating

(contents of the file:)

@PHYSICSGLOBALS:FINAL
{
	@conductionFactor = 0.0250
	@skinSkinConductionFactor = 0.12
	// Skin-internal should dominate, not part-part
	@skinInternalConductionFactor = 8.3333333333333333333333333333333
	@shieldedConductionFactor = 0.01
}

So, you can see conduction factor has taken a major cut, 0.0250 down from 120 in stock or 5 in RO. The net result after all internal KSP calculations is that parts will have a conductivity of 250 W per m/2. Assuming aluminum as the major construction material though obviously, IRL steel would also be a major structural material. (and later, synthetics)

Edited April 2, 2017 by Starwaster

Meltdown · April 4, 2017

I'm currently investigating how RF is getting the densities for the fuels/oxidizers for a dVscript in kOS. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find the densities noted somewhere in cleartext so I came to you, my fellow rocket nerds in the hope of getting an answer for my question.

Starwaster · April 4, 2017

3 hours ago, Meltdown said:

I'm currently investigating how RF is getting the densities for the fuels/oxidizers for a dVscript in kOS. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find the densities noted somewhere in cleartext so I came to you, my fellow rocket nerds in the hope of getting an answer for my question.

What, you mean programmatically? You want the density of a resource?

https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/blob/d5dea57ef17b9653e409e9145e81d58c4b1c9c11/Source/Tanks/FuelTank.cs#L461-L468

Meltdown · April 4, 2017

54 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

What, you mean programmatically? You want the density of a resource?

https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/blob/d5dea57ef17b9653e409e9145e81d58c4b1c9c11/Source/Tanks/FuelTank.cs#L461-L468

kOS can't get the density out of RF directly as the "getDensity"-method is internal; Its not possible to call the method like stage:resources:"Kerosene":getDensity() so I have to either put them in by hand or write my own extension for kOS so I can query the method with the kOS language itself but this is far over my capabilities as I can barely walk straight and chew bubblegum at the same time. The data I can get is mostly from the modules*RF which is visible in the right-click menu. Its even harder to interact with Testflight but thats another story....

Currently I'm using this but the densities are from wiki and somewhat different from those in RF :

	function deltavstage
	{
	local fuelslex is lex(
	"Lqdoxygen", 1.141e-3,
	"Kerosene", 8.1715e-4,
	"solidfuel", 1.78e-3,
	"Lqdhydrogen", 7.085e-5,
	"nto", 1.44246e-3,
	"udmh", 7.93e-4,
	"aerozine50", 9.03e-4,
	"mmh", 8.75e-4,
	"htp",1.484e-3,
	"Hydrazine", 7.9452e-4
	).
	local fuelmass is 0.
	local Lfuels is fuelslex:keys.
	local m is 0.
	for x in fuelslex:keys {
		set fuelmass to fuelmass + fuelslex[x] * stage:resourcesLex[Lfuels[m]]:Amount.
		set m to m + 1.
	}
[...]

As you can see I'm querrying the values from a lexicon called fuelslex and I wasn't able to find the densities somewhere. I know that it isn't good style to put those values in by hand because of the intercompatibility but I have no other choice.

Jso · April 4, 2017

2 hours ago, Meltdown said:

As you can see I'm querrying the values from a lexicon called fuelslex and I wasn't able to find the densities somewhere. I know that it isn't good style to put those values in by hand because of the intercompatibility but I have no other choice.

The resource definitions are in GameData\CommunityResourcePack\CommonResources.cfg. You'll find all the values KSP is using there.

Starwaster · April 4, 2017

5 hours ago, Meltdown said:

kOS can't get the density out of RF directly as the "getDensity"-method is internal; Its not possible to call the method like stage:resources:"Kerosene":getDensity() so I have to either put them in by hand or write my own extension for kOS so I can query the method with the kOS language itself but this is far over my capabilities as I can barely walk straight and chew bubblegum at the same time. The data I can get is mostly from the modules*RF which is visible in the right-click menu. Its even harder to interact with Testflight but thats another story....

Currently I'm using this but the densities are from wiki and somewhat different from those in RF :

As you can see I'm querrying the values from a lexicon called fuelslex and I wasn't able to find the densities somewhere. I know that it isn't good style to put those values in by hand because of the intercompatibility but I have no other choice.

I'm not saying to call any of RF's methods. Look at what that code does. That's how you read a resource's density. (or any other field it has). Those are stock classes and methods being referenced in GetDensity()

Meltdown · April 5, 2017

17 hours ago, Starwaster said:

I'm not saying to call any of RF's methods. Look at what that code does. That's how you read a resource's density. (or any other field it has). Those are stock classes and methods being referenced in GetDensity()

I can't pull any part of Unity's code either with kOS. kOS is a pseudo-OS which is restricted to the tools the devs are offering. Its not possible to request a resources definition because the OS isn't offering any interface for unity itself.

19 hours ago, Jso said:

The resource definitions are in GameData\CommunityResourcePack\CommonResources.cfg. You'll find all the values KSP is using there.

Thanks. I wasn't expecting them in another folder than that of RF itself.

edit : Nevermind, I found out that one can pull the density from within kOS. Thanks for your help, keep your great mod running, it'S so much fun playing with it!

Edited April 5, 2017 by Meltdown

PickleBranston · April 14, 2017

I apologise if this has been asked before, but searching failed me.

Simply put engines are hitting max internal temp whenever I stage them; I've identified this as a real fuels issue now. Has anyone experienced this and/or know how to prevent it? I don't want to use the cheats as I still want to have heat damage otherwise.

Cheers

blowfish · April 14, 2017

56 minutes ago, PickleBranston said:

I apologise if this has been asked before, but searching failed me.

Simply put engines are hitting max internal temp whenever I stage them; I've identified this as a real fuels issue now. Has anyone experienced this and/or know how to prevent it? I don't want to use the cheats as I still want to have heat damage otherwise.

Cheers

It's a known issue. Been fixed in the code, just waiting for a release.

PickleBranston · April 14, 2017

1 minute ago, blowfish said:

It's a known issue. Been fixed in the code, just waiting for a release.

Great, cheers

Starwaster · April 14, 2017

@PickleBranston

actually it was worse... they were hitting double.MaxValue

Relitto · April 16, 2017

i like the idea of having multiple fuels in one tank, and different uses for each fuel, but is there a way to remove the fuel stability and ignition limits for all engines? i want different fuels, but just without the fuel stability and ignition limits.

MaxZhao · April 16, 2017

44 minutes ago, Relitto said:

i like the idea of having multiple fuels in one tank, and different uses for each fuel, but is there a way to remove the fuel stability and ignition limits for all engines? i want different fuels, but just without the fuel stability and ignition limits.

Yes. Go to your real fuel folder. Find Realsettings.cfg. Find the Ullage section(in the cfg file, open it with a text editor) and you can change all to false.

Edited April 16, 2017 by MaxZhao

Relitto · April 16, 2017

57 minutes ago, MaxZhao said:

Yes. Go to your real fuel folder. Find Realsettings.cfg. Find the Ullage section(in the cfg file, open it with a text editor) and you can change all to false.

i did that, but when i loaded up ksp, all the engines broke and when i open the ui for a fuel tank, the only fuels available are liquidfuel and oxidizer.

https://gyazo.com/1d65338df69f196abb46aca76090f078

MaxZhao · April 16, 2017

1 minute ago, Relitto said:

i did that, but when i loaded up ksp, all the engines broke and when i open the ui for a fuel tank, the only fuels available are liquidfuel and oxidizer.

https://gyazo.com/1d65338df69f196abb46aca76090f078

Ummmm, can you upload your logs and your edited cfg file？

Relitto · April 16, 2017

@MFSSETTINGS[MFSSettings]
{
   %useRealisticMass = true
   %tankMassMultiplier = 4.807692308
   %unitLabel = L
}

RFSETTINGS
{
   engineMassMultiplier = 4.0
   useRealisticMass = true
   heatMultiplier = 1.0

   globalConductionCompensation = True


   instantThrottleProps
   {
       val = SolidFuel
       val = PSPC
       val = HTPB
       val = PBAN
       val = HNIW
       val = NGNC
   }


   RF_TECHLEVELS
   {
       ENGINETYPE
       {
           name = O
           TLISP0
           {
               key = 0 286
               key = 1 100
           }
           TLTWR0 = 18.9
           TLCOST0 = 1.0
           TLTECH0 = start
           TLTHROTTLE0 = 1
           TLISP1
           {
               key = 0 314
               key = 1 110
           }
           TLTWR1 = 25.8
           TLCOST1 = 1.2
           TLTECH1 = basicRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE1 = 1
           TLISP2
           {
               key = 0 332
               key = 1 116
           }
           TLTWR2 = 30.3
           TLCOST2 = 1.4
           TLTECH2 = generalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE2 = 0.75
           TLISP3
           {
               key = 0 342
               key = 1 120
           }
           TLTWR3 = 32.8
           TLCOST3 = 1.6
           TLTECH3 = advRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE3 = 0.4
           TLISP4
           {
               key = 0 347
               key = 1 121
           }
           TLTWR4 = 34
           TLCOST4 = 1.75
           TLTECH4 = heavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE4 = 0.2
           TLISP5
           {
               key = 0 352
               key = 1 123
           }
           TLTWR5 = 35.3
           TLCOST5 = 1.85
           TLTECH5 = heavierRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE5 = 0.15
           TLISP6
           {
               key = 0 357
               key = 1 125
           }
           TLTWR6 = 36.5
           TLCOST6 = 1.95
           TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE6 = 0.1
           TLISP7
           {
               key = 0 362
               key = 1 127
           }
           TLTWR7 = 37.8
           TLCOST7 = 2.0
           TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE7 = 0.1
       }

       ENGINETYPE
       {
           name = U
           TLISP0
           {
               key = 0 280
               key = 1 168
           }
           TLTWR0 = 35.2
           TLCOST0 = 1.0
           TLTECH0 = start
           TLTHROTTLE0 = 1
           TLISP1
           {
               key = 0 308
               key = 1 185
           }
           TLTWR1 = 48.8
           TLCOST1 = 1.2
           TLTECH1 = basicRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE1 = 1
           TLISP2
           {
               key = 0 325
               key = 1 195
           }
           TLTWR2 = 56.8
           TLCOST2 = 1.4
           TLTECH2 = generalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE2 = 1
           TLISP3
           {
               key = 0 335
               key = 1 201
           }
           TLTWR3 = 61.6
           TLCOST3 = 1.6
           TLTECH3 = advRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE3 = 1
           TLISP4
           {
               key = 0 340
               key = 1 204
           }
           TLTWR4 = 64
           TLCOST4 = 1.75
           TLTECH4 = heavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE4 = 0.8
           TLISP5
           {
               key = 0 345
               key = 1 207
           }
           TLTWR5 = 66.4
           TLCOST5 = 1.85
           TLTECH5 = heavierRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE5 = 0.75
           TLISP6
           {
               key = 0 350
               key = 1 210
           }
           TLTWR6 = 68.8
           TLCOST6 = 1.95
           TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE6 = 0.7
           TLISP7
           {
               key = 0 355
               key = 1 213
           }
           TLTWR7 = 71.2
           TLCOST7 = 2.0
           TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE7 = 0.6
       }

       ENGINETYPE
       {
           name = U+
           TLISP0
           {
               key = 0 291
               key = 1 102
           }
           TLTWR0 = 25.4
           TLCOST0 = 1.0
           TLTECH0 = start
           TLTHROTTLE0 = 1
           TLISP1
           {
               key = 0 320
               key = 1 112
           }
           TLTWR1 = 38.5
           TLCOST1 = 1.2
           TLTECH1 = basicRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE1 = 1
           TLISP2
           {
               key = 0 338
               key = 1 118
           }
           TLTWR2 = 46.2
           TLCOST2 = 1.4
           TLTECH2 = generalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE2 = 0.75
           TLISP3
           {
               key = 0 348
               key = 1 122
           }
           TLTWR3 = 50.9
           TLCOST3 = 1.6
           TLTECH3 = advRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE3 = 0.4
           TLISP4
           {
               key = 0 354
               key = 1 124
           }
           TLTWR4 = 53.2
           TLCOST4 = 1.75
           TLTECH4 = heavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE4 = 0.3
           TLISP5
           {
               key = 0 359
               key = 1 126
           }
           TLTWR5 = 55.5
           TLCOST5 = 1.85
           TLTECH5 = heavierRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE5 = 0.2
           TLISP6
           {
               key = 0 364
               key = 1 127
           }
           TLTWR6 = 57.8
           TLCOST6 = 1.95
           TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE6 = 0.15
           TLISP7
           {
               key = 0 369
               key = 1 129
           }
           TLTWR7 = 60.1
           TLCOST7 = 2.0
           TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE7 = 0.1
       }

       ENGINETYPE
       {
           name = L
           TLISP0
           {
               key = 0 260
               key = 1 234
           }
           TLTWR0 = 44.7
           TLCOST0 = 1.0
           TLTECH0 = start
           TLTHROTTLE0 = 1
           TLISP1
           {
               key = 0 275
               key = 1 248
           }
           TLTWR1 = 54.2
           TLCOST1 = 1.2
           TLTECH1 = basicRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE1 = 1
           TLISP2
           {
               key = 0 295
               key = 1 266
           }
           TLTWR2 = 66.8
           TLCOST2 = 1.4
           TLTECH2 = generalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE2 = 1
           TLISP3
           {
               key = 0 310
               key = 1 279
           }
           TLTWR3 = 76.3
           TLCOST3 = 1.6
           TLTECH3 = advRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE3 = 1
           TLISP4
           {
               key = 0 320
               key = 1 288
           }
           TLTWR4 = 82.7
           TLCOST4 = 1.75
           TLTECH4 = heavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE4 = 0.8
           TLISP5
           {
               key = 0 327
               key = 1 295
           }
           TLTWR5 = 87.1
           TLCOST5 = 1.85
           TLTECH5 = heavierRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE5 = 0.7
           TLISP6
           {
               key = 0 332
               key = 1 299
           }
           TLTWR6 = 90.3
           TLCOST6 = 1.95
           TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE6 = 0.6
           TLISP7
           {
               key = 0 337
               key = 1 304
           }
           TLTWR7 = 93.4
           TLCOST7 = 2.0
           TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE7 = 0.6
       }

       ENGINETYPE
       {
           name = L+
           TLISP0
           {
               key = 0 268
               key = 1 220
           }
           TLTWR0 = 38.3
           TLCOST0 = 1.0
           TLTECH0 = start
           TLTHROTTLE0 = 1
           TLISP1
           {
               key = 0 283
               key = 1 233
           }
           TLTWR1 = 46.4
           TLCOST1 = 1.2
           TLTECH1 = basicRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE1 = 1
           TLISP2
           {
               key = 0 304
               key = 1 250
           }
           TLTWR2 = 57.3
           TLCOST2 = 1.4
           TLTECH2 = generalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE2 = 0.8
           TLISP3
           {
               key = 0 319
               key = 1 262
           }
           TLTWR3 = 65.4
           TLCOST3 = 1.6
           TLTECH3 = advRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE3 = 0.75
           TLISP4
           {
               key = 0 330
               key = 1 271
           }
           TLTWR4 = 70.9
           TLCOST4 = 1.75
           TLTECH4 = heavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE4 = 0.7
           TLISP5
           {
               key = 0 337
               key = 1 277
           }
           TLTWR5 = 74.6
           TLCOST5 = 1.85
           TLTECH5 = heavierRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE5 = 0.65
           TLISP6
           {
               key = 0 342
               key = 1 281
           }
           TLTWR6 = 77.4
           TLCOST6 = 1.95
           TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE6 = 0.6
           TLISP7
           {
               key = 0 347
               key = 1 285
           }
           TLTWR7 = 80.1
           TLCOST7 = 2.0
           TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE7 = 0.5
       }

       ENGINETYPE
       {
           name = A
           TLISP0
           {
               key = 0 280
               key = 1 252
           }
           TLTWR0 = 20.7
           TLCOST0 = 1.0
           TLTECH0 = start
           TLTHROTTLE0 = 1
           TLISP1
           {
               key = 0 308
               key = 1 277
           }
           TLTWR1 = 31.4
           TLCOST1 = 1.2
           TLTECH1 = basicRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE1 = 1
           TLISP2
           {
               key = 0 325
               key = 1 293
           }
           TLTWR2 = 37.6
           TLCOST2 = 1.4
           TLTECH2 = generalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE2 = 0.8
           TLISP3
           {
               key = 0 335
               key = 1 302
           }
           TLTWR3 = 41.4
           TLCOST3 = 1.6
           TLTECH3 = advRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE3 = 0.7
           TLISP4
           {
               key = 0 340
               key = 1 306
           }
           TLTWR4 = 43.3
           TLCOST4 = 1.75
           TLTECH4 = heavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE4 = 0.6
           TLISP5
           {
               key = 0 345
               key = 1 311
           }
           TLTWR5 = 45.2
           TLCOST5 = 1.85
           TLTECH5 = heavierRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE5 = 0.5
           TLISP6
           {
               key = 0 350
               key = 1 315
           }
           TLTWR6 = 47.1
           TLCOST6 = 1.95
           TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE6 = 0.4
           TLISP7
           {
               key = 0 355
               key = 1 320
           }
           TLTWR7 = 48.9
           TLCOST7 = 2.0
           TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE7 = 0.3
       }

       ENGINETYPE
       {
           name = S
           TLISP0
           {
               key = 0 220
               key = 1 200
           }
           TLTWR0 = 4.34782608695652
           TLCOST0 = 1.0
           TLTECH0 = start
           TLTHROTTLE0 = 1
           TLGIMBAL0 = 0
           TLISP1
           {
               key = 0 235
               key = 1 215
           }
           TLTWR1 = 5.26315789473684
           TLCOST1 = 1.2
           TLTECH1 = basicRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE1 = 1
           TLGIMBAL1 = 0
           TLISP2
           {
               key = 0 250
               key = 1 230
           }
           TLTWR2 = 6.25
           TLCOST2 = 1.4
           TLTECH2 = generalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE2 = 1
           TLGIMBAL2 = 3
           TLISP3
           {
               key = 0 260
               key = 1 240
           }
           TLTWR3 = 7.14285714285714
           TLCOST3 = 1.6
           TLTECH3 = advRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE3 = 1
           TLGIMBAL3 = 5
           TLISP4
           {
               key = 0 268
               key = 1 245
           }
           TLTWR4 = 8.33333333333333
           TLCOST4 = 1.75
           TLTECH4 = heavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE4 = 1
           TLGIMBAL4 = 5
           TLISP5
           {
               key = 0 276
               key = 1 255
           }
           TLTWR5 = 10
           TLCOST5 = 1.85
           TLTECH5 = heavierRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE5 = 1
           TLGIMBAL5 = 5
           TLISP6
           {
               key = 0 284
               key = 1 260
           }
           TLTWR6 = 11.1111111111111
           TLCOST6 = 1.95
           TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE6 = 1
           TLGIMBAL6 = 5
           TLISP7
           {
               key = 0 290
               key = 1 265
           }
           TLTWR7 = 12.5
           TLCOST7 = 2.0
           TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE7 = 1
           TLGIMBAL7 = 5
       }

       ENGINETYPE
       {
           name = S+
           TLISP0
           {
               key = 0 231
               key = 1 160
           }
           TLTWR0 = 4.76190476190476
           TLCOST0 = 1.0
           TLTECH0 = start
           TLTHROTTLE0 = 1
           TLGIMBAL0 = 0
           TLISP1
           {
               key = 0 247
               key = 1 172
           }
           TLTWR1 = 5.88235294117647
           TLCOST1 = 1.2
           TLTECH1 = basicRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE1 = 1
           TLGIMBAL1 = 0
           TLISP2
           {
               key = 0 263
               key = 1 184
           }
           TLTWR2 = 7.14285714285714
           TLCOST2 = 1.4
           TLTECH2 = generalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE2 = 1
           TLGIMBAL2 = 0
           TLISP3
           {
               key = 0 273
               key = 1 192
           }
           TLTWR3 = 8.33333333333333
           TLCOST3 = 1.6
           TLTECH3 = advRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE3 = 1
           TLGIMBAL3 = 2
           TLISP4
           {
               key = 0 281
               key = 1 196
           }
           TLTWR4 = 10
           TLCOST4 = 1.75
           TLTECH4 = heavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE4 = 1
           TLGIMBAL4 = 3
           TLISP5
           {
               key = 0 290
               key = 1 204
           }
           TLTWR5 = 12.5
           TLCOST5 = 1.85
           TLTECH5 = heavierRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE5 = 1
           TLGIMBAL5 = 4
           TLISP6
           {
               key = 0 298
               key = 1 208
           }
           TLTWR6 = 14.2857142857143
           TLCOST6 = 1.95
           TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE6 = 1
           TLGIMBAL6 = 4
           TLISP7
           {
               key = 0 305
               key = 1 212
           }
           TLTWR7 = 16.6666666666667
           TLCOST7 = 2.0
           TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE7 = 1
           TLGIMBAL7 = 4
       }

       ENGINETYPE
       {
           name = N
           TLISP3
           {
               key = 0 850
               key = 1 380
           }
           TLTWR3 = 1.46
           TLCOST3 = 1.6
           TLTECH3 = heavierRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE3 = 1
           TLISP4
           {
               key = 0 875
               key = 1 391
           }
           TLTWR4 = 2
           TLCOST4 = 1.75
           TLTECH4 = nuclearPropulsion
           TLTHROTTLE4 = 1
           TLISP5
           {
               key = 0 910
               key = 1 407
           }
           TLTWR5 = 2.4241
           TLCOST5 = 1.85
           TLTECH5 = nuclearPropulsion
           TLTHROTTLE5 = 1
           TLISP6
           {
               key = 0 930
               key = 1 416
           }
           TLTWR6 = 4
           TLCOST6 = 1.95
           TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE6 = 1
           TLISP7
           {
               key = 0 960
               key = 1 429
           }
           TLTWR7 = 6
           TLCOST7 = 2.0
           TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE7 = 1
           TLISP8
           {
               key = 0 1010
               key = 1 452
           }
           TLTWR8 = 8
           TLCOST8 = 2.05
           TLTECH8 = experimentalRocketry
           TLTHROTTLE8 = 1
       }
   }

   Ullage
   {
       simulateUllage = false
       limitedIgnitions = false
       shutdownEngineWhenUnstable = true
       explodeEngineWhenTooUnstable = false
       stabilityPower = 0.5

       naturalDiffusionRateX = 0.05
       naturalDiffusionRateY = 0.06
       naturalDiffusionAccThresh = 0.005

       translateAxialCoefficientX = 0.30
       translateAxialCoefficientY = 1.5 // 0.86
       translateSidewayCoefficientX = 0.05
       translateSidewayCoefficientY = 0.03

       rotateYawPitchCoefficientX = 0.018
       rotateYawPitchCoefficientY = 0.012
       rotateRollCoefficientX = 0.018
       rotateRollCoefficientY = 0.024

       ventingVelocity = 100
       ventingAccThreshold = 0.0000001
   }
}

thats the cfg, and i dont know what logs you're looking for.

Cratzz · April 16, 2017

@Relitto I don't wanna act like a wannabe Moderator here, but please post a link to the file instead of a copy/paste. Makes for a tidier, more pleasant forum experience And the logs MaxZhao is talking about is propably the KSP.log and the ModuleManager.ConfigCache

[1.8+] Real Fuels

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