Raptor831 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Yes, I actually have been using your config for quite a while in one of my installs of KSP! You did a great job!Glad it was useful! lordkrike helped me out with some chemistry mistakes and organization. All of those resources get complicated!I agree with you concerning the Regolith mod! That mod looks just about perfect for this.That's cool, and may be very helpful. Definitely worth looking into!Regolith features pretty prominently in the plans I've laid. It pretty much provides a package solution to the code problems of resource extraction and conversion. So yeah, that'll probably be the glue binding this whole thing together.Cool! I'll be looking forward to your results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazovnew Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) I've been playing RF with Stockalike and Procedural Tanks for a while now and I love the flexibility and the tech. Buuuuut...1. Is the low price of fuel / high price of tanks by design, or just a temporary thing? Because empty procedural tanks end up costing nothing, and cheap real fuels like Liquid Hydrogen should take into account the high cost of keeping the damned thing liquid. When I tried to approximate the Kerosene mix price to resemble stock fuel price, I ended up multiplying prices by a factor of about 2000.2. Procedural Parts (tanks in my case) rely on the tank definitions in RF. So most of the variance implemented into individual parts by other means gets lost and I get no reason to use some types with Procedural Parts. 3. With that in mind, I never use some engine fuel combinations, because they are more expensive, lower ISP and lower thrust than their variants. 4. Why so many fuels? With just stock and KW engines I ended up deleting many fuel types just to keep things simple. Maybe a LITE and FULL variant of the mod would help in making it easier to adjust to stock career. Edited December 14, 2014 by karamazovnew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor831 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 4. Why so many fuels? With just stock and KW engines I ended up deleting many fuel types just to keep things simple. Maybe a LITE and FULL variant of the mod would help in making it easier to adjust to stock career.I can't speak to the rest, but there is NEARFuels, which is essentially Real Fuels with fewer, more generic resources. I don't know if the Stockalike configs are compatible out of the box, but it should only be a find-and-replace to make it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidfu Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 %useRealisticMass = true %tankMassMultiplier = .9 %engineMassMultiplier = .8hmm wonder if these settings are good for a stock game but makign it a bit harder not sure.i fu put the mutipllier to 1 does that mean they are stock weight or that mean they 1times more heavy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 karamazovnew: (1) stock KSP's prices (any many other things) don't make sense. Real Fuels sets the price of resources based on 1 fund = $1000USD in 1965 dollars (and yes the cost of LH2 absolutely does take transport into account). I have mentioned to Raptor831 that it might make sense for Stockalike RF configs to change fuel prices for ~balance~ since some people like fantasyland pricing. (2) If Procedural Parts are causing you to not use various old tanks, they are working as designed. The point is to no longer need the RAM sink and partlist-space sink that is eleventy million tank parts...(3) If you are playing sandbox, where everything is available, then of course you will use the best. But lack of technology may prevent you from using the best things early in career; certainly in real life I'm sure the V-2 rocket team would have just loved staged combustion kerolox, but that wasn't an option.(4) Raptor already mentioned that other mod, but I just want to point out that no one is forcing you to manually select propellents, the autofill buttons exist for a reason. sidfu: please leave the multipliers alone, they are already set for "basically stock" masses. If you change them to 1, then useRealisticMass = false will do nothing, and if you change them to less than 1 useRealisticMass = false will make them lighter.Literally the multipliers are there to multiply the mass up when useRealisticMass is set to false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstnj Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 has anyone given this a go in .90? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 has anyone given this a go in .90?It will not function in 0.90 at allIt requires updating before that will happen. It is being worked on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolves_Hero Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Not work on 0.90, not show up fuel list, need update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralathon Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Not work on 0.90, not show up fuel list, need update.speak broken english we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 speak broken english we do.Need to read the post right in front of ours we do!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 That's enough folks....Yes, Wolves_Hero, RF needs an update. Working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Tock Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 That's enough folks....Yes, Wolves_Hero, RF needs an update. Working on it. Yay I cant wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panarchist Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 speak broken english we do.Yes, that's because the KSP fanbase is multinational and multicultural. Perhaps Wolves_Hero wasn't born knowing English, it's kind of crass to seize on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckfinite Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Unofficial update for 0.90.0, if an official one comes out default to that.License as original, sources here: https://github.com/BenChung/ModularFuelSystemDownload the original package, then install this on top of it.Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j96ecij0q4pza6t/RealFuels.zip?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanHalen Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Unofficial update for 0.90.0, if an official one comes out default to that.License as original, sources here: https://github.com/BenChung/ModularFuelSystemDownload the original package, then install this on top of it.Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j96ecij0q4pza6t/RealFuels.zip?dl=0Thank you, I greatly appreciate this. Real Fuels is an essential mod for me, and it's one of the last things holding me back from starting 0.90. A rep for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazovnew Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (2) If Procedural Parts are causing you to not use various old tanks, they are working as designed. The point is to no longer need the RAM sink and partlist-space sink that is eleventy million tank parts...That's not what I meant, I mean that Procedural Parts reference the RealTankTypes.cfg completely. This file doesn't include cost for the tank, so they end up costing nothing when empty. Their mass is laughably small when empty (compared to stock), and all tank types can be filled at 100%. I also don't really see much variance in the TANK_DEFINITION mains, so I don't see structural variance, G tolerance, that sort of thing. In contrast, stock tanks (I mean anything but Procedural) have those things defined much better. Also in contrast, the Procedural Tanks themselves work better when used without RealFuels, as they refference their own settings, per stock fuel type. (3) If you are playing sandbox, where everything is available, then of course you will use the best. But lack of technology may prevent you from using the best things early in career; certainly in real life I'm sure the V-2 rocket team would have just loved staged combustion kerolox, but that wasn't an option. I know that, I just wish I had a use for all. For example, limiting refineries to worse fuels, having thrust restrictions, basically allowing you to choose between cost/usability. Don't worry, I have a few plans for that (4) Raptor already mentioned that other mod, but I just want to point out that no one is forcing you to manually select propellents, the autofill buttons exist for a reason. NEARFuels is not the same Seriously. And probably will not be updated as per maker's comments.Anyhow, since you're busy with updating RealFuels and I'm wasting time not playing without some of my mods, as soon as RealFuels is ready, I'm gonna start to tweak it a bit for a simplified stock career. I'll probably bombard you with question as soon as that happens Ah, I do have one already: is there any way to limit the number of fuel types loaded in a tank? For example, I want some tank types to allow me a maximum of X fuels (any fuels), but the service module to allow me a maxim of Y fuels (again, any fuels)? Also, is there a way to increase the mass and decrease capacity utilization of the tank based on how many fuels you have in it? Cheers and good luck with the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar1989 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) Their mass is laughably small when empty (compared to stock), and all tank types can be filled at 100%.The mass ratios are based on real-life fuel tanks. If it's laughably light compared to stock tanks, that's just because stock tanks are insanely heavy compared to real life tanks. There's a REASON that space-grade fuel tanks are so expensive- they are built to extremely exacting standards so as to squeeze every bit of Delta-V possible out of a rocket. That being said, they're still much cheaper than space-grade rocket engines typically (which is why they need to be so cheap- to have the right cost relation to the engines. Use Difficulty Options to turn down your monetary rewards from Contracts if you think it makes the game too easy...)Regarding mass of the fuel tanks, compare the mass of the Centaur upper stage, to that of the Rockomax-32 tank. Both have a dry mass of about 2 tons (this includes payload fairings, guidance systems, RCS, and a lot of other things on Centaur). But the Rockomax-32 holds only 16 tons of propellant at fuel-densities many times higher than than of LH2/LOX (or any known fuel mixture for that matter), whereas the Centaur upper stage's total mass (payload fairings and all) is about the same and yet it holds over 20 tons of LH2/LOX, which has a *tiny* fraction of the fuel-density of stock LF/O- meaning you have a MUCH superior volume-to-mass ratio (and the mass ratio would be much better if used to hold denser fuels like, say, Kero/LOX or hypergolics).As for the "can be filled to 100%", do you mean that they can launch completely full (all tanks can do that), or that they can have 100% volume utilization? While the latter might be *slightly* inaccurate, it's not as much as you think. The capacities in Procedural Parts are based on the actual dimensions of the tanks, and assume 1 atmosphere of pressure. However most rockets make use of *pressurized* fuel tanks, which can hold significantly *more* fuel mass for their volume (what would equate to a greater volume at lower pressures). Since pressurization isn't implemented correctly in the Procedural Parts RealFuels tanks (i.e. a "pressurized" Service Module tank holds *exactly* the same number of units of fuel as an "unpressurized" Balloon Tank- when Service Modules can be found pressurized to 20 atmospheres or more in real life), having 100% utilization isn't that unrealistic. Even the least-pressurized fuel tanks in real life (such as the Balloon Tanks in the Centaur or early Atlas rockets- which can't withstand high internal pressures due to their extremely thin-skinned design, or the Space Shuttle External Tank- which operated at a pressure of "only" 1.5 atmospheres) make up for it by having very high utilization percentages (96% for some of the Balloon Tanks used on Atlas, if I remember correctly), which aren't all that far from 100% really...Regards,Northstar Edited December 19, 2014 by Northstar1989 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstnj Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Running the .90 hotfix posted above and running to a non-game breaking bug that I ran into before .90 too:When trying to right click tanks and engines after loading craft in the VAB/SPH nothing happens unless I alter and revert the craft (control-z) before hand. Do you know what I mean/is this a known bug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) v8.3*Update to .90 (thanks ckfinite and taniwha)*Don't fire editor events when we shouldn't*Add cost info to engine change GUI*Show engine configs that are not available due to tech (not having that node) Edited December 20, 2014 by NathanKell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Congratulations on the release!I have a suggestion... I suggest that the icon for CIF3 be replaced by an icon of a pair of running shoes (ok not really.... I just thought it was amusing to suggest it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tea_bag97 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I really enjoy this mod, it gives to the game much more depth. I'd have just one question, though: is it possible to download the older versions? If yes, where? Thank you a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman4308 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) I really enjoy this mod, it gives to the game much more depth. I'd have just one question, though: is it possible to download the older versions? If yes, where? Thank you a lot.There's an archive of prior releases on Github. Git is wonderful, and Github is mostly wonderful (minus a few annoyances).EDIT: Also, if you're looking for 0.25 releases, CKAN should give you access to 0.25 mods when you're installing on a 0.25 installation. Edited December 22, 2014 by Starman4308 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 GitHub is a foul evil thing. The bane of my existence. They are a cruel foe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tea_bag97 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Very well, thanks for the quick answer, Starman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velusip Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Just a heads up, many of the parts now contain a small fuel tank for LiquidFuel (e.g. nacelleBody, radialEngineBosy, some cockpits), but this is not reflected in the overrides in RealFuels.I did a quick thingie and the results are in. This is how I got that list, just in case it's missing something.find . -name '*.cfg' -exec awk '/LiquidFuel/{ln1=NR;line1=$0} /amount/{ln2=NR;line2=$0} END{if(ln1&&ln2&&ln1 <ln2){print FILENAME, "\n", line1, "\n", line2}}' {} \;|sprunge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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