How well would near future and interstellar mix?

[WhiteWeasel]

I have near future for my career and I was wondering if I should get interstellar. Would they synergize or clash? And what I mean by clash, i do not mean will they bug out. I mean would there be mechanics that clash (DRE + orion for example) or having too many parts fulfill similar roles, usually having one better like "bills mod solar panels are better than bobs mod panels and I will never use bobs".

[Fractal_UK]

I have near future for my career and I was wondering if I should get interstellar. Would they synergize or clash? And what I mean by clash, i do not mean will they bug out. I mean would there be mechanics that clash (DRE + orion for example) or having too many parts fulfill similar roles, usually having one better like "bills mod solar panels are better than bobs mod panels and I will never use bobs".

It's certainly possible, lots of people do use them together though the balance schemes are different. Interstellar uses engines that conserve energy so its engines require far more power to produce the same thrust. Consequently, interstellar reactors and generators produce a lot more power so it's not necessarily a good idea to mix and match reactors and engines from each mod. Personally, I'd recommend using parts from one or the other on each ship depending on the parts you need, otherwise you do risk balance issues, of course it is up to you how much this bothers you.

Some people like to use the near future electric engines for the late stock game era, when interstellar electric engines are still struggling for thrust.

[WhiteWeasel]

I can always delete the parts that overlap too much. I like near future reactors better. I kinda don't want to deal with waste heat with interstellar, but I want some of the parts off of it. Also are the radiators of both mods compatible with each other?

[Fractal_UK]

I can always delete the parts that overlap too much. I like near future reactors better. I kinda don't want to deal with waste heat with interstellar, but I want some of the parts off of it. Also are the radiators of both mods compatible with each other?

No but you can disable waste heat in Interstellar in the plugin.cfg. That said, I don't recommend this, it is an important balance feature as well as a realism one. Solar panels generate very little waste heat unless you drop them near the sun so most existing ships need very little cooling. It mainly applies to reactors.

[Captain Sierra]

Fair to note the Near Future now has a meltdown mechanic and thud has a waste heat system, it just functions differently. You will have to attach heat fins and vent that heat or else the reactors don't run at full capacity or they melt down.

[WhiteWeasel]

Fair to note the Near Future now has a meltdown mechanic and thud has a waste heat system, it just functions differently. You will have to attach heat fins and vent that heat or else the reactors don't run at full capacity or they melt down.

But NF's waste heat only applies to reactors. And don't they have a safety to prevent meltdowns in the first place at reducing power output. BTW, which of the two mods have more powerful reactors and electrical generation? Also how does MW translate into e/s?

Edited January 2, 2014 by WhiteWeasel

[Captain Sierra]

MW = 1000 units of ElectricCharge. Counting antimatter reactors, Interstellar can crank out more power but the systems by which it does that are less than straight forward. NFP = add reactor, open fins, ..., profit. Less power, lots more simplicity. Now they got capacitors too now so those can really spike your power output for a minute or two.

[WhiteWeasel]

MW = 1000 units of ElectricCharge. Counting antimatter reactors, Interstellar can crank out more power but the systems by which it does that are less than straight forward. NFP = add reactor, open fins, ..., profit. Less power, lots more simplicity. Now they got capacitors too now so those can really spike your power output for a minute or two.

Not only that but it seems take most Loquacious way to list something. Nice for those who can read it and adds to the science appeal, but really just bogs the UI down to anyone else. That and ; Total 1.25m Kiwi: Power: 40 MW. 40 MW over what time? I hope not MW/s, 40000 e/s would be ridiculous and obsolete every other method of power production. Isn't there a thread that says when making a mod there has to be some kind of universal notation? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the liquid fuel units are in liters, It would not make sense to list them in gallons, so why the change in e/s to MW?

[Fractal_UK]

But NF's waste heat only applies to reactors. And don't they have a safety to prevent meltdowns in the first place at reducing power output. BTW, which of the two mods have more powerful reactors and electrical generation? Also how does MW translate into e/s?

Both mods assume that 1EC = 1KJ, so that is at least consistent across both. Interstellar reactors produce much more power, the smallest Interstellar reactors produce MW and you can get GW fission reactors if you're prepared to pay the price in size and mass. Like I say though, Interstellar uses realistic thrusts for plasma engines which means they way need power to produce the same thrust so using Interstellar reactors/generators and NFFP engines can make things quite easy - that's why I recommend dividing things up by ship.

[Hyomoto]

I think the answer is fairly obvious: not very well. They are both tuned differently and weren't designed with one another in mind. Now, you could probably write a module manager file and arrange a tech tree to make them both relevant to each other, but recently Interstellar has exploded into really its own style of play. At this juncture it's sort of like an alternate stock, either you are using KSPI or you are not. I prefer near future because it compliments the game rather than taking it over. Near Future and KW are my major part packs.

[WhiteWeasel]

Both mods assume that 1EC = 1KJ, so that is at least consistent across both. Interstellar reactors produce much more power, the smallest Interstellar reactors produce MW and you can get GW fission reactors if you're prepared to pay the price in size and mass. Like I say though, Interstellar uses realistic thrusts for plasma engines which means they way need power to produce the same thrust so using Interstellar reactors/generators and NFFP engines can make things quite easy - that's why I recommend dividing things up by ship.

I don't think they would mix too well the, one overpowers the other, and the other under performs in comparison. I think I'm getting to many new concepts from interstellar thrown in my face to properly understand it all. That's why I'm doing kethane and NF in career.

I think the answer is fairly obvious: not very well. They are both tuned differently and weren't designed with one another in mind. Now, you could probably write a module manager file and arrange a tech tree to make them both relevant to each other, but recently Interstellar has exploded into really its own style of play. At this juncture it's sort of like an alternate stock, either you are using KSPI or you are not. I prefer near future because it compliments the game rather than taking it over. Near Future and KW are my major part packs.

That explains my situation really well. Thanks.

On a side note, I really like the thermal turbojets, do you need other Interstellar parts for it to work?

Edited January 2, 2014 by WhiteWeasel

[Fractal_UK]

On a side note, I really like the thermal turbojets, do you need other Interstellar parts for it to work?

Yeah, thermal turbojets and thermal rockets get their power from the heat of a reactor (sort of by definition) so you need reactors if you want them. Without them, they have no heat source, so they don't do anything.

[WhiteWeasel]

Yeah, thermal turbojets and thermal rockets get their power from the heat of a reactor (sort of by definition) so you need reactors if you want them. Without them, they have no heat source, so they don't do anything.

Fudge. I'm guessing they don't work with other reactors.

[FreeThinker]

Are there any mods that try to balance Interstellar with Near Future?

If not, perhaps we have to do it ourselves. Either Interstellar generators needs to be reduced in power or near future engines need a higher power requirement. Near Future has the advantage of beeing closer to stock power, however Interstellar power is more realisticly balanced. A possible problem is that Interstellar uses Hard coded formula's which cannot be edited easily. So the easiest route would be to discard NF reactors and boost the power requirements of NearFuture engines. The question is how much?

To figure it out I compared weight and power output of base reactors between NearFuture and Intersteller

Near Future: MX-1 Fission Reactor + 4x GR-1 Conformal Heat Radiator = 5.4 + 4*(0.5) = 7.4t 2MW => 3.6t / MW

Interstellar: 1.25m "KIWI" Fission Reactor + 1.25m Electric Generator + 2* Heat Radiator = 0.5 + 1.5 + 2 * 0.8 = 3.6t 6 MW => 0.6t / MW

So for simplicity's sake I conclude that a base Intersteller power generating is 6 times more effective than Near Future power generating.

Now we only need a some config files to make NF electrical engines require up to 6 times as much power and we can play a balanced game mixing parts from both

Edited December 3, 2014 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

Since no one has taken up the gauntlet, I decided to do it myself

I'm currently working on a Kerbalisation mod for Interstellar which allows you to play Interstellar with Near Future. Initialy I tried to modify Near Future to be more compatible with Insterstellar by boosting the power requirement of near future engines but this lead to rediculous high power consumption and other balance issues. So now I'm doing it the other way around by Kerbalising Intersteller to power output and requirment much more similar to stock/near future power output/requirements.

I started by drasticly reducing the power output of Interstellar and rescale them, using using Near Future as my Gold standard. My second step is to drasticly reduce te power requiremrnt of Interstellar engines. In order to achieve this I had to modify the Interstellar.dll and tweak some calculations

My goal is to allow mix and match reactors and engines from of Interstellar an Near Future. The currrent results are promissing and durring chrismas I hope to release a WIP version that allows players to expience an ballanced Interstellar.

Edited December 12, 2014 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

For anyone who is still interested, I created a development treat [WIP] KSP Interstellar Near Future Integration for a mod which attempts to merge Interstellar and Near Future technologies into a single mod working together

Edited January 2, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Vanamonde]

This thread is a year old, and information in it is unlikely to be current. The thread will be closed now to avoid spreading bad information.