[1.8.x] DMagic Orbital Science: New Science Parts [v1.4.3] [11/2/2019]

[Omeran]

18 hours ago, DMagic said:

@Omeran You don't need any kind of Kerbal to use those parts.

Is the asteroid between the two receivers? Are they both attached to the asteroid, if not then you'll need to make sure that the other receiver is the target of your current vessel.

It can be tricky to get everything lined up because of some recent changes to KSP that make it so that any other parts will block the signal between the two receivers. So you need a clear line of sight between both receivers with nothing but the asteroid between them.

Hmm, interesting. I moved one module from the ship to the asteroid (while it was already turned on) and it let me scan the asteroid on the module from the opposite side.

Thanks!

 

[Spagoose]

So what is the recommended science return for playing with this mod? I'm using all the USI and near future mods so my tech tree is extended with CTT and it's made slightly more difficult  to send kerbals long distances with life support. Would adding this mod make science too easy to get with 100% science return?

[Norcalplanner]

2 hours ago, Spagoose said:

So what is the recommended science return for playing with this mod? I'm using all the USI and near future mods so my tech tree is extended with CTT and it's made slightly more difficult  to send kerbals long distances with life support. Would adding this mod make science too easy to get with 100% science return?

It depends on how many CTT nodes you have, and your preference for grindiness during play. If you plan on using the science lab, you'll still likely be done with the whole tree without going further than Minmus. If you're using other mods which provide a use for science points (BARIS, Kerbal RnD) then you can keep the percentage higher.

My own yardstick is to tweak the percentage down until you regularly find yourself in situations where you can't do everything you want to do, while still being able to do many of the things you want to do.  Whether that's at 70% or 50% or 30% is up to you.

One final suggestion - don't use Science Relay unless you have an extremely low science percentage.

[hi13760]

I am having a hard time with the seismic hammer and pods. Is there a tutorial or youtube vid that explains the basic operations of this mod. FYI I used this mod a very long time ago so I know some basic operation. Thanks in advance.

[WuphonsReach]

On 7/4/2018 at 1:24 PM, Spagoose said:

So what is the recommended science return for playing with this mod? I'm using all the USI and near future mods so my tech tree is extended with CTT and it's made slightly more difficult  to send kerbals long distances with life support. Would adding this mod make science too easy to get with 100% science return?

I recommend looking at Celestial Body Science Editor:
https://spacedock.info/mod/136/Celestial Body Science Editor

I also play with CTT with a moderate game difficulty and will turn down the science returns on Minmus/Mun/Kerbin.

(The other thing I do is play with KCT with really slow settings, a custom config I made, where it takes 10-15 years to get past the 90-point nodes.)

12 hours ago, hi13760 said:

I am having a hard time with the seismic hammer and pods. Is there a tutorial or youtube vid that explains the basic operations of this mod. FYI I used this mod a very long time ago so I know some basic operation. Thanks in advance.

Have the hammer on the probe/ship.  As you descend to the surface, fire off the pods sideways but upwards at 500-1500m AGL in different directions.  Expect about half to two-thirds of the pods not to survive.  Once you land and the distant mods no longer move, use the hammer portion like a normal science experiment.

(I did some experiments with the pods a while ago in this thread.  KSP physics kraken ate pods no matter what I tried.)

You get more points the further that the pods are from the hammer.

[cyberKerb]

12 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

I recommend looking at Celestial Body Science Editor:
https://spacedock.info/mod/136/Celestial Body Science Editor

I also play with CTT with a moderate game difficulty and will turn down the science returns on Minmus/Mun/Kerbin.

(The other thing I do is play with KCT with really slow settings, a custom config I made, where it takes 10-15 years to get past the 90-point nodes.)

Have the hammer on the probe/ship.  As you descend to the surface, fire off the pods sideways but upwards at 500-1500m AGL in different directions.  Expect about half to two-thirds of the pods not to survive.  Once you land and the distant mods no longer move, use the hammer portion like a normal science experiment.

(I did some experiments with the pods a while ago in this thread.  KSP physics kraken ate pods no matter what I tried.)

You get more points the further that the pods are from the hammer.

do more pod change the experiment results (aside from different distances) or do you only need one pod per biome?

[DMagic]

I think this covers most of it.

 

Also, yes the pods can be fragile. I need to see about just making them indestructible somehow. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by DMagic

[WuphonsReach]

11 hours ago, wile1411 said:

do more pod change the experiment results (aside from different distances) or do you only need one pod per biome?

Pods are not per-biome (the hammer may be, but [X] Science would tell me for sure).

I usually launch out 3-6 on descent in various directions, with a variety of powers.  So one to the N at 100%, one to the S at 100%, one to the E at 50%, one to the W at 50%, one to the NE at 75%, one to the SW at 60%.

[DMagic]

The hammer and pods both run the same experiment, you can technically run it from only a pod, but you get very little science return. You can also run the experiment from the pods when a hammer is nearby and get the appropriate amount of science. Again, though, this is all the same experiment, there are just options for how it is run.

There is some number of pods (5 I think) where, if you have enough deployed near the hammer you will always get the full science amount, regardless of any distance and angles.

And it's all a bit of a mess on the technical side, which is why I've been reluctant to try to improve or change the system in any way.

Also, yes it has biome support:

 

Also, my thoughts on science balance: 

I definitely recommend Celestial Body Science Editor to lower the science gains from the Mun and Minmus. It forces you plan longer missions to other planets without feeling like too much of a grind. I find it works best with smaller, relatively simple probes to other planets so that you can quickly launch a lot of cheaper rockets.

Edited July 13, 2018 by DMagic

[Toranks]

I cant use experiments from a kerbal because it consumes more EC than the maximum available. Is there a way to increase that amount or decrease the amount of EC used by the experiments?

[4x4cheesecake]

11 hours ago, Toranks said:

I cant use experiments from a kerbal because it consumes more EC than the maximum available. Is there a way to increase that amount or decrease the amount of EC used by the experiments?

Not quiet sure what you mean with 'use experiments from a kerbal' but usually, adding more batteries will help to increase your max. EC available

[Toranks]

11 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Not quiet sure what you mean with 'use experiments from a kerbal' but usually, adding more batteries will help to increase your max. EC available

I mean being on EVA. On EVA i cant add batteries

[4x4cheesecake]

21 minutes ago, Toranks said:

I mean being on EVA. On EVA i cant add batteries

Well, you cannot run/fly around on EVA, holding an experiment in your hands, so it must be attached to a craft, correct? The experiment will always use the EC stored in the craft it is attached to.
I really want to help you but it feels like we are talking at cross purposes...do you mind posting a screenshot of the exact situation where you want to use the experiment?

edit: Oh, do you have KIS installed?^^

Edited July 18, 2018 by 4x4cheesecake

[DStaal]

23 hours ago, Toranks said:

I mean being on EVA. On EVA i cant add batteries

Sure you can:

Just attach batteries to the ship with the experiment.

[4x4cheesecake]

38 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Just attach batteries to the ship with the experiment.

This, or if you already use KIS and try something like this:

you should attach the experiment to a vessel instead, they are not meant to be used this way

[Toranks]

Yes, I use  KIS.
I thought that one of the utilities of being able to take it to the back was to execute it directly in EVA
If it's not meant for that, then nothing. I thought so. Thanks

[Tonka Crash]

15 hours ago, Toranks said:

Yes, I use  KIS.
I thought that one of the utilities of being able to take it to the back was to execute it directly in EVA
If it's not meant for that, then nothing. I thought so. Thanks

I'm with you, I didn't see the point of mounting an experiment on the back of a Kerbal if the experiment wasn't meant to run while being carried.

[maja]

1 hour ago, Tonka Crash said:

I'm with you, I didn't see the point of mounting an experiment on the back of a Kerbal if the experiment wasn't meant to run while being carried.

The experiment part is on the back, because it's too big to hide in Kerbal's pockets.

Edited July 20, 2018 by maja

[Tonka Crash]

1 minute ago, maja said:

The experiment part is on the back, because it's to big to hide in Kerbal's pockets.

Poor argument when there are lots of other parts you can stow in your pockets that appear to be a similar size or larger. I know IgorZ stated that a Kerbal's KIS inventory represents what's in a Kerbal's pockets, but it's 300 liters of volume. By volume it's probably close to what a Sherpa would haul up Everest. I'm not complaining, It's a useful volume for EVA work and I'd probably bump it up before I'd consider making it  more realistic to represent pockets in a flight suit. I look at it as the Kerbals personal baggage allotment for a flight. It's about 2-3 largish duffle bags.

It's a design choice in the mod whether a part is wearable or not. It may look cool being carried around on the back, but in practice I haven't found it useful on most parts if they don't provide some functionality while being worn. Most of my KIS/KAS interactions with Dmagic experiments have been with the seismic sensor pods which are relatively small. First I found I couldn't stow them in my lander for recovery because you can't carry them inside if they are strapped to your back. Ended up  leaving them behind (no engineer to reattach them). Eventually I found they aren't really reusable anyway as the decoupler action isn't there after being reattached by an engineer, so now I treat them as a consumable item on missions. The Mun is in my save is littered with them. My lander was refuelable at an orbital station, so I have a container full of pods to keep replacing used ones, but since they are backpacked around I can only carry them one at a time from the supply container back to the lander for installation making the EVAs less efficient than I'd like.

If it really bothered me I'd just write a MM patch to change it, but these are all design constraints I can live with. Overall I really like the mod.

[DStaal]

4 minutes ago, Tonka Crash said:

Eventually I found they aren't really reusable anyway as the decoupler action isn't there after being reattached by an engineer, so now I treat them as a consumable item on missions.

Not even in the right-click menu?  I thought I remembered it was.  (I'll admit I don't harvest all possible science from that experiment regularly.)

[Tonka Crash]

16 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Not even in the right-click menu?  I thought I remembered it was.  (I'll admit I don't harvest all possible science from that experiment regularly.)

I don't think so, but I may be mistaken. I had originally set an action for deploying them and had switch to the right click menu for replacement pods, but I seem to recall I couldn't fire reused pods. I also noticed the cradle that's left behind after decoupling wouldn't persist and it seemed like the reused pods were attached directly the surface without a cradle under them.

Overall none of these are issues worth fixing, to me the pods should be a consumable item. But it would be nice if the pods were a bit more crash tolerant. I'm think I have around 50% survive deployment when fired flat, if you give them any upward arc it gets worse. I was playing around with them on a rover on Kerbin and a 45 degree upward angle would destroy most (80%+) of the pods on impact. That doesn't seem right to me.

[ExtremeSquared]

The relay function of the SIGINT dishes sort of ruins balance when playing with hard comms network settings. All that should be necessary to kill that function is changing RELAY to DIRECT in the SIGINT cfg file DataTransmitter modules, right?

[Reverie_39]

This looks like a great mod, I've been looking for something to add functionality to satellites and probes. 

Should I be expecting contracts for DMagic science to show up immediately? I installed the mod and have some new science parts available in my career mode, but after time warping a few days and declining some available contracts, I'm not seeing anything except stock contracts. Which are btw getting pretty dumb. I just put a station in Munar orbit. I'm not making another one lol.

[DMagic]

@ExtremeSquared You can do that or just delete the DataTransmitter module if you want to get rid of it completely (though if you do that you should set the ""noAntenna" field in the DMSIGINT module to true).

@Reverie_39 All of the contracts require certain parts to be unlocked before they are offered, these are generally required for the contract in question. Some of them also have some other simple requirements like orbit Kerbin at least once, or escape Kerbin orbit, or, for the asteroid contracts you have to upgrade the tracking station.

[Reverie_39]

On 7/22/2018 at 4:01 PM, DMagic said:

@ExtremeSquared You can do that or just delete the DataTransmitter module if you want to get rid of it completely (though if you do that you should set the ""noAntenna" field in the DMSIGINT module to true).

@Reverie_39 All of the contracts require certain parts to be unlocked before they are offered, these are generally required for the contract in question. Some of them also have some other simple requirements like orbit Kerbin at least once, or escape Kerbin orbit, or, for the asteroid contracts you have to upgrade the tracking station.

Ah, I'm starting to see them now, thanks. I actually like these as they're pretty realistic. My Minmus probe needs to be in orbit for 175 days before gathering the required data, which is definitely more like real life than instantly doing it lol. I'm planning to send my first probe to Duna anyway, so some of your instruments will definitely be hitching a ride.

One question. Because I'm at the point in my game where contracts for LKO and even the Mun are very few and far between, I'm guessing I won't see too many DMagic contracts at those places. Is there a way to get these to pop up? I'm in career mode and could use the funds and rewards from those simpler missions I never got to do with DMagic hardware.