The HELO challenge

[Northstar1989]

Thinking outside the box. Nothing wrong with that.

Except that it took exquisite engineering and more electricity that some small countries produce in a year (3 GW of electricity from an 18 GW thermal power array of nuclear reactors) to accomplish THIS (this is only a test-flight: I'm still having stability issues that make sustained supercruise at these speeds exceedingly dangerous)

It's also blurring the line between plane and helicopter a little bit- if you shut off the rotors at over 400 m/s, it doesn't instantly drop like a brick, but instead starts to more gradually lose altitude (it hardly glides- but it doesn't exactly drop straight down either...)

Top speed has not yet been determined, but I think I clocked over 426 m/s just before I lost control on that flight...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited June 10, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Padishar]

The Eggington award - Achive a speed in excess of 400.87 m/s overland. (In honor of John Trevor Egginton the current helo speed record holder)

This may have been pointed out before but the record isn't 400.87 m/s (this is considerably over mach 1). It is in km/h so this is only 111.35 m/s...

[Darren9]

I had a go at adapting my utility/recovery chopper for a few of these challenges. Originally designed to fly cockpit only pod recovery/cargo missions the base craft is a flying winch with cameras, the 2.5m cargo space allows a variety of additional modules on the winch to extend functionality.

With an 8 man transport module flew 2 Kerbals to Dirt Runway and returned to VAB roof. (Precision award, The Jet Ranger distinction)

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With a turbo-jet module flew a non-stop circumnavigation at 30km & 1400m/s, no lift surfaces. (The Eggington award, The Ferry award, The Kasprowicz distinction, The Boulet award, The Church award)

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With a quad turbo-prop heavy lifting module transported 40.5T of cargo to Dirt Runway and returned to KSC. (The Kolochenko award)

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A combination of transport and turbo-jet modules may get me to KSC2 for the final awards and a complete Da-Vinci if this modular approach is deemed acceptable.

[Northstar1989]

I had a go at adapting my utility/recovery chopper for a few of these challenges. Originally designed to fly cockpit only pod recovery/cargo missions the base craft is a flying winch with cameras, the 2.5m cargo space allows a variety of additional modules on the winch to extend functionality.

http://i.imgur.com/pm8U090.jpg

With an 8 man transport module flew 2 Kerbals to Dirt Runway and returned to VAB roof. (Precision award, The Jet Ranger distinction)

http://imgur.com/a/RVxJg

With a turbo-jet module flew a non-stop circumnavigation at 30km & 1400m/s, no lift surfaces. (The Eggington award, The Ferry award, The Kasprowicz distinction, The Boulet award, The Church award)

http://imgur.com/a/bjUR7

With a quad turbo-prop heavy lifting module transported 40.5T of cargo to Dirt Runway and returned to KSC. (The Kolochenko award)

http://imgur.com/a/1kRmS

A combination of transport and turbo-jet modules may get me to KSC2 for the final awards and a complete Da-Vinci if this modular approach is deemed acceptable.

Interesting craft- what mods did you use? I saw a number of mod parts I had never seen before on that (like what looked like cyrogenic capsules in the 8-Kerbal crew module, and the blue fuel tank on the turbojet module)

The thread author has already clarified that small modifications to the structure are fine. I'm sure you'll be able to use your modular approach...

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

This may have been pointed out before but the record isn't 400.87 m/s (this is considerably over mach 1). It is in km/h so this is only 111.35 m/s...

I already pointed it out before... The thread author allowed me to meet the lower speed limit with the HELO: A (as I didn't notice or point out the discrepancy until after thinking I had already beat the distinction), but he said it would have to be meters/second instead of kilometers/hour (why the speed is so different from the real record) for all future craft...

Regards,

Northstar

[Darren9]

Interesting craft- what mods did you use? I saw a number of mod parts I had never seen before on that (like what looked like cyrogenic capsules in the 8-Kerbal crew module, and the blue fuel tank on the turbojet module)

The thread author has already clarified that small modifications to the structure are fine. I'm sure you'll be able to use your modular approach...

Regards,

Northstar

The little pod things are an enclosed command seat from D12-Aerotech-A-B9-Aerospace-Expansion, still experimental, once you load a Kerbal you have to zoom in between the pod glass and victim for the click-menu to exit the seat again, quite a few parts in there and it uses existing B9 textures so they're almost for free. Procedural-Parts makes virtually any size cylinder/cone/truncated cone in structural only or various fuel tanks plus a few other bits and a few textures including blue and grey. I expect you've seen the rest, KAX rotors, some structural bits from IR and of course the Firespitter drop tanks that seem to hold an awful lot of fuel for their size.

[Northstar1989]

The little pod things are an enclosed command seat from D12-Aerotech-A-B9-Aerospace-Expansion, still experimental, once you load a Kerbal you have to zoom in between the pod glass and victim for the click-menu to exit the seat again, quite a few parts in there and it uses existing B9 textures so they're almost for free.

I don't get why a mod would implement an enclosed command chair in that way (and deal with the difficulties you described in using them as a result). Why not just make it an enclosed pod with no SAS? (or is it so that you can see the Kerbal while he's in the pod?)

I'd never heard of D12 Aerotech before... I might have to check it out on my next save... (I'm already close to memory-failure on my current version of KSP, partially because the parts memory is cluttered with old versions of parts from previous installs of mods... I'll have to do a re-install when I update to 0.24, and that'll be when I restart my save and mods-list form scratch...)

Procedural-Parts makes virtually any size cylinder/cone/truncated cone in structural only or various fuel tanks plus a few other bits and a few textures including blue and grey. I expect you've seen the rest,

Procedural Parts is a pretty cool mod- I've been tracking its progress ever since it arose as the continuation of StretchyTanks/StretchySRB's... Last I checked, it still wasn't considered "done" yet... Definitely will be going in my new install after I update to 0.24 though- as I currently use StretchTanks and love it... (by then it should be done- I won't re-install right away when 0.24 comes out...)

KAX rotors,

O:o I don't mean to be a jerk by pointing this out, but you know technically your design should have been DQ'd for using those, right? The Challenge specifically states the helicopter needs to be held up with Firespitter rotors of some sort (although I suspect that was only created as such because the challenge author had never heard of KAX rotors before, as I also have not...)

some structural bits from IR

Structural bits from Infernal Robotics? I thought that mod was mainly just focused on robotic manipulators and hinges and rotators and such... What did you use from IR?

Regards,

Northstar

[Darren9]

I don't get why a mod would implement an enclosed command chair in that way (and deal with the difficulties you described in using them as a result). Why not just make it an enclosed pod with no SAS? (or is it so that you can see the Kerbal while he's in the pod?)

I'd never heard of D12 Aerotech before... I might have to check it out on my next save... (I'm already close to memory-failure on my current version of KSP, partially because the parts memory is cluttered with old versions of parts from previous installs of mods... I'll have to do a re-install when I update to 0.24, and that'll be when I restart my save and mods-list form scratch...)

Procedural Parts is a pretty cool mod- I've been tracking its progress ever since it arose as the continuation of StretchyTanks/StretchySRB's... Last I checked, it still wasn't considered "done" yet... Definitely will be going in my new install after I update to 0.24 though- as I currently use StretchTanks and love it... (by then it should be done- I won't re-install right away when 0.24 comes out...)

O:o I don't mean to be a jerk by pointing this out, but you know technically your design should have been DQ'd for using those, right? The Challenge specifically states the helicopter needs to be held up with Firespitter rotors of some sort (although I suspect that was only created as such because the challenge author had never heard of KAX rotors before, as I also have not...)

Structural bits from Infernal Robotics? I thought that mod was mainly just focused on robotic manipulators and hinges and rotators and such... What did you use from IR?

Regards,

Northstar

The D12 pack is unfinished, its been stated the pod will get a more complex collider arrangement to overcome that issue, and yes, if it's a pod and not command seat you don't see the internal view from outside (there was a plugin that could at one time).

The Kerbal-Aircraft-Expansion rotors are really just a FireSpitter re-skin, the same FireSpitter .dll/modules, just look a bit nicer with the blur implemented that Snjo hasn't got around to putting on his yet. They also have collision, unfortunately not with the craft they're on but at least with anything else, and some very nice sounds.

And, I've got the Infernal-Robotics-Model-Rework, the structural pack (no robotics) has various 0.625m-5m truss/tube parts that I seem to use in virtually everything.

I'm also at the upper limit of memory, I had to un-install all the near future stuff to get some back. I hadn't considered attempting power beaming either, it looks like you have no control surfaces and just fixed angle wings - is there a reason for that?

[Cranium]

Does this challenge absolutely, and exclusively require Firespitter? I despise the textures and the models in that mod, because it's so ridiculously cartooney. I'd like to see if I can make something with just stock parts, and maybe something from infernal robotics.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Cranium

[Cranium]

So, I didn't get an answer yet, but who cares. As far as I can tell, this craft qualifies. It's the only serious entry so far that does not use the Firespitter parts. I give you, the HELO X2

Only mods used are Infernal Robotics, and FAR. Yes, it works with FAR, take that! It can't really fly fast, because the blades want to flip the craft as the air gets under them. I'm going to do some tweaking and see if I can get the blades to be a little more stable.

It does have a mechjeb module, if you want, but it's not utilized in this mission.

So this craft qualifies for the Precision award.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Cranium

[Northstar1989]

The D12 pack is unfinished, its been stated the pod will get a more complex collider arrangement to overcome that issue, and yes, if it's a pod and not command seat you don't see the internal view from outside (there was a plugin that could at one time).

The Kerbal-Aircraft-Expansion rotors are really just a FireSpitter re-skin, the same FireSpitter .dll/modules, just look a bit nicer with the blur implemented that Snjo hasn't got around to putting on his yet. They also have collision, unfortunately not with the craft they're on but at least with anything else, and some very nice sounds.

Hmmm, sounds interesting. Definitely mods I'll have to take a look at using the next time around...

And, I've got the Infernal-Robotics-Model-Rework, the structural pack (no robotics) has various 0.625m-5m truss/tube parts that I seem to use in virtually everything.

I thought the main point of Infernal Robotics was the actual robotics. What's the use of a bunch of trusses?

I'm also at the upper limit of memory, I had to un-install all the near future stuff to get some back. I hadn't considered attempting power beaming either, it looks like you have no control surfaces and just fixed angle wings - is there a reason for that?

Actually, I have control surfaces. The largest of possible control surfaces. The wings themselves move as necessary to control orientation!

The miniature wings at the front and rear of the helicopter are Procedural Dynamics all-moving wings. What that means is, they function like giant canards- the entire wing moves about as necessary and possible by its geometry to allow for altitude-control... The problem leading to instability I've had is, those same control surfaces tend to move in directions that they really ought not to when I try to manuever, leading to unexpected yaw/roll.

I'm thinking the issue is tweakables and the 0.23.5 update. Many of my mods haven't been updated since before tweakables, or were early updates released shortly after tweakables that might not have ironed out all the kinks...

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

So, I didn't get an answer yet, but who cares. As far as I can tell, this craft qualifies. It's the only craft so far that does not use the Firespitter parts. I give you, the HELO X2

http://puu.sh/9pPPn/5c8d57d38c.png

http://youtu.be/M6Prao8IqWI

Only mods used are Infernal Robotics, and FAR. Yes, it works with FAR, take that! It can't really fly fast, because the blades want to flip the craft as the air gets under them. I'm going to do some tweaking and see if I can get the blades to be a little more stable.

It does have a mechjeb module, if you want, but it's not utilized in this mission.

So this craft qualifies for the Precision award.

That's a cool-looking craft, but not actually the first one to not use the Firespitter mod. There was an earlier entry that used rotating wings in exactly the same matter earlier... Just browse the thread a little.

I don't remember if it got onto the Socreboard though- I think it might have been DQ'd for some reason...

Regards,

Northstar

[Duribun]

So, I didn't get an answer yet, but who cares. As far as I can tell, this craft qualifies. It's the only craft so far that does not use the Firespitter parts. I give you, the HELO X2

http://puu.sh/9pPPn/5c8d57d38c.png

http://youtu.be/M6Prao8IqWI

Only mods used are Infernal Robotics, and FAR. Yes, it works with FAR, take that! It can't really fly fast, because the blades want to flip the craft as the air gets under them. I'm going to do some tweaking and see if I can get the blades to be a little more stable.

It does have a mechjeb module, if you want, but it's not utilized in this mission.

So this craft qualifies for the Precision award.

Actually, there is at least one as previously mentioned that doesn't use firespitter parts, An infact I think he went entirely stock.

An to be honest, while they may be cartoonish in the textures, there are other mods out there that provide helo blades, but they do use the firespitter plugin to get them to function.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Duribun

[Voculus]

Cranium, that is a sweet helicopter! Did you have torque issues with all that spinning mass above the craft? Is that why you had all the SAS modules attached? I build an IR helo with adjustable pitch blades to control the amount of lift, while the rotors spun at a constant RPM, but had to use two main rotors, like a Chinook, to keep the ship from spinning wildly about.

[Cranium]

That's a cool-looking craft, but not actually the first one to not use the Firespitter mod. There was an earlier entry that used rotating wings in exactly the same matter earlier... Just browse the thread a little.

I don't remember if it got onto the Socreboard though- I think it might have been DQ'd for some reason...

Regards,

Northstar

Ah, you're right, I had neglected that one. I actually ignored it, because it was not really a serious entry.

Actually, there is at least one as previously mentioned that doesn't use firespitter parts, An infact I think he went entirely stock.

An to be honest, while they may be cartoonish in the textures, there are other mods out there that provide helo blades, but they do use the firespitter plugin to get them to function.

Yeah, I just really don't like firespitter at all.

Cranium, that is a sweet helicopter! Did you have torque issues with all that spinning mass above the craft? Is that why you had all the SAS modules attached? I build an IR helo with adjustable pitch blades to control the amount of lift, while the rotors spun at a constant RPM, but had to use two main rotors, like a Chinook, to keep the ship from spinning wildly about.

The torque issues weren't too bad. Since it's a free spinning washer, none of the torque saw the rest of my craft. The SAS modules were there to actually control the darn thing. Since there's no conventional means of turning the thing, I had to add the SAS modules to rotate the body, and hope the blades come with it. It was a large gamble, but it seems it worked out quite well. I'm happy to provide a .craft file if anyone is interested in tinkering with it.

http://puu.sh/9qiA8/a8ce590491.craft

[Fengist]

Ah, you're right, I had neglected that one. I actually ignored it, because it was not really a serious entry.

Yeah, I just really don't like firespitter at all.

The torque issues weren't too bad. Since it's a free spinning washer, none of the torque saw the rest of my craft. The SAS modules were there to actually control the darn thing. Since there's no conventional means of turning the thing, I had to add the SAS modules to rotate the body, and hope the blades come with it. It was a large gamble, but it seems it worked out quite well. I'm happy to provide a .craft file if anyone is interested in tinkering with it.

http://puu.sh/9qiA8/a8ce590491.craft

Sorry, been out of town for a few weeks and didn't get a chance to check the thread. Plus, the email notifications never go to me that someone posted.

As far as I'm concerned, if it looks like a helo, flies like a helo... well, it must be a helo. Just let me know what you qualify for when you're done and I'll put it up on the leaderboard.

[volcanicshrimp]

I did make a flying barrel with IR and land it on the VAB launchpad a while back... I'll see if I can find pics of it.

EDIT: Found some pics although they're more taken to show off the craft because this was a while before I saw this challenge. It took off from the launchpad, flew up to and landed on the VAB helipad, then flew down and landed next to the SPH.

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I don't have the .craft file any more though so if these pics aren't enough tell me and I'll make a new entry. I have firespitter and IR so I could use either.

NOTE: IR motors use electricity so they would technically be Tesla fanatics entries.

Is TCA allowed? The hover function may be too OP for the Church award (although after more thought firespitter heli rotors have that built in) but idk whether the engine auto-balancing is too OP for the other challenges or not.

Edited August 6, 2015 by volcanicshrimp

[volcanicshrimp]

On my first attempt at flying a firespitter heli to the helipad I almost made it but just as I was about to land my rotors started spinning down and crashed me next to it. I have no idea why and the engine sounds were still playing so I didn't accidentally switch the engines off.

After further testing the rotors appear to spin down if the collective (rotor pitch) is over about 11 (it varies slightly in flight). I have no idea whether this is realistic or a bug (I'm not a helicopter expert).

Sorry for double posting btw.

Edited August 6, 2015 by volcanicshrimp

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

I have an idea...

- - - Updated - - -

Can I clip fuel tanks?

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Yes...

[Azimech]

Ohw how nice! Can I enter something which was made in 0.90?

[Red Iron Crown]

Ohw how nice! Can I enter something which was made in 0.90?

Given this is a year old necro I don't see why not.

Interesting new entries, but I'm not sure the OP is maintaining this challenge anymore. Perhaps someone would like to start a new, similar thread?

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Given this is a year old necro I don't see why not.

Interesting new entries, but I'm not sure the OP is maintaining this challenge anymore. Perhaps someone would like to start a new, similar thread?

Oops. That's what comes of only looking at the date above your own post.

[Fengist]

Well, since I'm not dead yet and I'm still around, anyone's free to do any challenge I've created. I'm pretty sure it's still a decent challenge even if I didn't do so well and it's a few versions back. Not that I have a lot of time to maintain it, but it's still open.

But, if someone wants to start a new one, I won't object.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Well, since I'm not dead yet and I'm still around, anyone's free to do any challenge I've created. I'm pretty sure it's still a decent challenge even if I didn't do so well and it's a few versions back. Not that I have a lot of time to maintain it, but it's still open.

But, if someone wants to start a new one, I won't object.

I'll see how my Little Nellie stacks up.