Expanding the Kerbal

[Capt Snuggler]

Making probe cores a low-risk low-rep deal is great.

You wouldnt get as much reputation sending a probe to space as you would sending Jeb.

So, you would use probes to test prototype aircraft, failing wouldnt be so bad, making it work wouldnt be so good either.

Then you use it manned for serious stuff.

bingo you've summed it up nicely!

[guest91111]

When I read this, I thought you wanted to make kerbals bigger..

You thought something like this?

[Nereid]

I haven't read the whole thread, but as far as I understand kerbals should be more diffent with different skills. I like the idea in general but not in some more specific points. Specializations like engineer, scientist, pilot,... ok, but without any impact on flight orders please. But:

- an engineer (or a kerbal with better repair skills) may repair broken things quicker or doesn't tend to destroy instead of fixing them

- a pilot may fly exactly in the same manner as a non pilot but with lesser risks of braking engines and perhaps a slightly lower fuel consumption

- a scientist gives a bit more scientes points.

- ...

This of course has the requirement for more parts that could brake (i.e. not only wheels).

But I really don't like the idea, that the skills of a kerbal have any direct impact on the behavior of the vessel in flight.

Just my 2 cents....

[Kamsko]

I like this idea. Though it seems no one can really agree on the pilots role, or span of ability. Clearly no skill of any role should effect ship stats of any kind though boosts in related science fields and repairing certain parts as an engineer sounds reasonable. I believe a long time ago Harv mentioned end game being a time where you look back at your space empire and watch it go on it's own. This implies Kerbals flying with out your help and thus where the piloting skill come into play. A Kerbal pilot could at the very least act as a sort of mechjeb but with varying degrees of maneuver accuracy based on skill level. At most you can give it a set of directives such as launch into LKO, then make a Munar transfer and circularize at x alt, then proceed to meet up with a station and dock. Hopefully this pilot skill can be a way for things to happen with out your direct intervention so your entire space agency isn't sitting in vast immobility.

Secondly, Kerbals should not be jammed into classes. There is no need for extra clarification other than the various skills that will no doubt be a part of this concept, and ship stations, which I will explain below.

Ship stations are already in the game, we can put what kerbals we want in what ever seat we want. But this could use a little more defining. It would prove useful to rename seats on a per craft basis, to give more defenition on what station is meant for what. This way you can have a medical Kerbal hang out in the hitchhiker storage bin but the seat he occupies will be labled as "doctors office" or what ever. Clearly labeling that kerman as a doctor so that when the vessel is viewed from the tracker it will show who is assigned as what. Combine this with the RastarPropMonitor mod for custom IVA stations and we have a whole new level of vessel customization. Think IVA screen readouts of science sensors only on certain seats where the scientists can see. Navigation data in front of the pilots. Fuel, and electricity levels, and overheat/damage warnings for the engineers. I could go on but that would stray from the Kerbals and skills point of this post. Of course Red, Gold, and Blue uniformes wouldn't hurt either.

[iaminapeartree]

I can see pilots nominally increasing the flight capabilities of a ship (maybe slightly higher SAS torque and part collision resistance to represent good maneuvering skills) and scientists increasing the science output from gathering data/analyzing it if occupying labs. Engineers? Would it be too cheaty for onboard engineers' effect to be a raised Isp of all engines on a craft?

What if the engineer acted like Kerbal Engineer and gave deltaV readouts throughout the flight?

[TimMartland]

Awesome ideas guys! Someone should get a SQUAD dev over here to have a look. Some ideas:

For the engineer, maybe they could provide some helpful hints? So if a wheel is taking a beating and might snap, you might get a message like 'Billy-Bobbles thinks that Mk1 Rover wheel (Highlighted) is going to break' the in danger part is highlighted briefly so you don't get confused. Such messages would be rare to prevent Navi-syndrome.

[Vallius]

Why not have kerbal specialists that give bonuses related to contracts? That way they all still can pilot, repair and collect surface samples, but they still give you certain benefits. Below is my idea for specialist types, some rules for how they work, and finally a suggestion for astronaut salaries.

A. There are 3 types of specialists, one or each type of "currency" used in KSP. Each can give your program a much needed boost while doing contracts. They give you smaller bonuses for other flights. They are:

1. Commander

Perhaps this kerbal has high courage, or the badS tag like Jebediah. When he is on a contracted mission, you get a reputation bonus for fulfilling your contract (+10%). Conversely, if he gets killed or the mission fails, your reputation takes a larger hit. He gives you a 5% reputation bonus on other flights.

2. Scientist

This kerbal has an unusually low stupidity, and he'll give you a bonus to science. He gives you a 5% bonus to experiments returned to kerbin, and reduces your transmission penalty by 10% (very helpful if you do a massive Joolian expedition).

3. Payload Specialist

This kerbal isn't especially smart or brave, but he is well connected to one (or more) of the companies that offer your space program contracts. Any contracts you do with him on board will get a cash bonus for successful missions. (+5% or maybe +10%)

B. Bonuses only add up for different types of specialist kerbals on the same mission.

This way, you can't spam payload specialists on a minor mission to give you the money for a 10 launch space station.

c. Finally, all astronauts will need to be paid a salary (whether this would be a one-time signing bonus, per mission cost, or a monthly check will be left to the developers). Because of the large benefits they can give your space program, specialists will naturally cost more. A corollary of this is that you will have the ability to fire astronauts too.

"Sorry Jeb, it's not that we don't like you--it's just that we can't afford you right now..."

Edited July 11, 2014 by Vallius
Left out some introductory explanation

[Darkstar616]

Like others have said, they'll need to expand other parts of the game before they make other things factor in their proficiency.

[KNSA Scientist]

I think that the more scientific guys will reap in the science, but the brave daring stereotypical astronauts would give more reputation. It's just like how they picked the Mercury 7 astronauts

[Vesparco]

Hello,

After the contract approach I was thinking than one possible next step forward on the game would be to have specialized roles for the kerbals. My thoughts were inspired from theme hospital in the following form of three possible paths (that could range from several levels).

Pilot: enhances the capability of the vessel to be piloted (could just enhance/penalize the torque capabilities of the cockpit for example).

Engineer: Required to deploy specialized equipment and can improve the resource management of the craft through optimization, for example.

Scientist: Capable of generating science better and the increase the possible transmited ammount. Also, could be compulsory for some special case science.

These roles could be inherent to each kerbal or could be teached/trained. then of course could be also a "neutral" starting position, being this a way to expand also the interaction with the kerbalnauts.

And of course, this is just an opinion and it is open to thoughts and suggestions

[kalor]

I'd really like there to be a reason for the courage and stupidity stats, as well, and, with specialized roles, these stats could perhaps be worked into to impact what they do... IE, a high courage Kerbal might make a good pilot, high stupidity would make for good "grunts", ie, non-specialized Kerbals, and low stupidity would make for the best scientists... using your examples.

[r4pt0r]

with how part stats are in the game I dont like the idea of pilot skill effecting stats.

If floor it in a brand new camero, I expect the same acceleration as if the stig himself floored it in the same car.

yes he might be better at shifting, but my analogy is that a dumb kerbals ship wont have less torque or thrust just because hes stupid. no matter who is in the pilots seat the craft should have the same potential.

[Vanamonde]

Since this idea has been brought up so frequently, to avoid repetition and to keep the discussion all in one place, the Already Suggested List has set up a master thread to include the idea of crew specialization. This thread will now be merged into that one.

[Vesparco]

Since this idea has been brought up so frequently, to avoid repetition and to keep the discussion all in one place, the Already Suggested List has set up a master thread to include the idea of crew specialization. This thread will now be merged into that one.

At first was quite confused up to reaching this comment XD.

Totally understandable btw.

About the topic of courage and stupidity affecting game, my only thoughts would be through "fear". May some actions require rather a bold kerbal to be performed (be it EVA in different places and the use of scientific and rocket parts enveloped in tags of "dangerous" and "experimental"). Such limits could be overcome by a brave man or rather a mindless one (or both). Despite, it is not appealing to have a kerbal reach Duna so he can be so scared he is unable to go out from the cockpit (specially if is a one-man cockpit).

[M3tal_Warrior]

There's much more to it: Stupid Kerbals make bad scientists, learn a lot slower and less (if learning is implemented one day), might slip on ladders or be less aware of dangers...

[Javster]

I like this idea. Though it seems no one can really agree on the pilots role, or span of ability. Clearly no skill of any role should effect ship stats of any kind though boosts in related science fields and repairing certain parts as an engineer sounds reasonable. I believe a long time ago Harv mentioned end game being a time where you look back at your space empire and watch it go on it's own. This implies Kerbals flying with out your help and thus where the piloting skill come into play. A Kerbal pilot could at the very least act as a sort of mechjeb but with varying degrees of maneuver accuracy based on skill level. At most you can give it a set of directives such as launch into LKO, then make a Munar transfer and circularize at x alt, then proceed to meet up with a station and dock. Hopefully this pilot skill can be a way for things to happen with out your direct intervention so your entire space agency isn't sitting in vast immobility.

Secondly, Kerbals should not be jammed into classes. There is no need for extra clarification other than the various skills that will no doubt be a part of this concept, and ship stations, which I will explain below.

Ship stations are already in the game, we can put what kerbals we want in what ever seat we want. But this could use a little more defining. It would prove useful to rename seats on a per craft basis, to give more defenition on what station is meant for what. This way you can have a medical Kerbal hang out in the hitchhiker storage bin but the seat he occupies will be labled as "doctors office" or what ever. Clearly labeling that kerman as a doctor so that when the vessel is viewed from the tracker it will show who is assigned as what. Combine this with the RastarPropMonitor mod for custom IVA stations and we have a whole new level of vessel customization. Think IVA screen readouts of science sensors only on certain seats where the scientists can see. Navigation data in front of the pilots. Fuel, and electricity levels, and overheat/damage warnings for the engineers. I could go on but that would stray from the Kerbals and skills point of this post. Of course Red, Gold, and Blue uniformes wouldn't hurt either.

IMO scientists should boost science by 20%-ish, and engineers should be able to fix solar panels. That's simple enough to implement without changing the game too drastically