[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

[Lekke]

It's strange you have an issue with range. I'm building a 300 km station as we speak and I have no issue getting there and back with just 1 aux fuel tank and no refueling during flight. Granted I do use mechjeb ascent profile.

[SaSquatch]

It's strange you have an issue with range. I'm building a 300 km station as we speak and I have no issue getting there and back with just 1 aux fuel tank and no refueling during flight. Granted I do use mechjeb ascent profile.

I'm running manual and I would say i'm not too far behind you're fuel efficiency... not enough to scrub a mission anyways.

[biohazard15]

I'd like to modify my part.cfg for KSO cockpit to get all five names simultaneously. I recall that there was a post explaining how to do that (or even a config for MM), but it seems I can't find it. Any help?

[Mecripp]

My guess is that if there just diffrant textures you can use the Firespitter plugin to change the textures in VAB.

[Mecripp]

My guess is that if there just diffrant textures you can use the Firespitter plugin to change the textures in VAB.

EDIT give me a sec see what, I can come up with.

[helldiver]

Well here's something. IVA only Launch, Rendezvous, and Docking of the KSO to a target on an inclined orbit. It is very long but does walk through what I do.

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Gorgeous video.

Tip: Once you're in the magnetic affect of a docking port, immediately shut off RCS and SAS.

If you lined up perfectly like you did in your video, you can turn off SAS and just let your spacecraft move into the docking port with inertia. Nazari and I discovered that if the two spacecraft docking have different Torque strengths, it will bounce all over the place and can sometimes cause the final pieces to not be aligned properly (such as a Phase II module).

You just have to practice hitting R and T just at the right moment

I align myself uses SAS only, until both vehicles are perfectly relative to each other on all three planes (x,y,z). I'll then turn on RCS and zero out any movement. Once I'm perfectly aligned with the target docking port, I then do a gentle RCS thrust towards it making any final adjustments. Finally I shut RCS and SAS off and just let the craft coast the final 10 or so meters.

[helldiver]

My guess is that if there just diffrant textures you can use the Firespitter plugin to change the textures in VAB.

EDIT give me a sec see what, I can come up with.

I'd like to modify my part.cfg for KSO cockpit to get all five names simultaneously. I recall that there was a post explaining how to do that (or even a config for MM), but it seems I can't find it. Any help?

I suppose we're at a point where I may include an alternate parts pack that includes the four other cockpit segments. As long as you folks are ok with the parts bloat in the VAB since you'll have five cockpits show up in the VAB?

Going to edit the Alternate Names pack to include cockpits. Folks that just want the texture, can simply drag and drop the texture they want to replace their stock texture. Everyone else that wants all five cockpits in the VAB can just install as normal.

Do you guys want a blank cockpit in the VAB as well?

[SaSquatch]

Gorgeous video.

Tip: Once you're in the magnetic affect of a docking port, immediately shut off RCS and SAS.

If you lined up perfectly like you did in your video, you can turn off SAS and just let your spacecraft move into the docking port with inertia. Nazari and I discovered that if the two spacecraft docking have different Torque strengths, it will bounce all over the place and can sometimes cause the final pieces to not be aligned properly (such as a Phase II module).

You just have to practice hitting R and T just at the right moment

I align myself uses SAS only, until both vehicles are perfectly relative to each other on all three planes (x,y,z). I'll then turn on RCS and zero out any movement. Once I'm perfectly aligned with the target docking port, I then do a gentle RCS thrust towards it making any final adjustments. Finally I shut RCS and SAS off and just let the craft coast the final 10 or so meters.

Thanks

I turned RCS off after I slowed that last time. I eventually turned off SAS after a couple of bounces to let the crafts settle.

[Tangle]

This is now my favourite station construction parts mod!

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7046/13409325593_87dd82051d_b.jpg

Freedom Station by XkaOnslaught, on Flickr

What. I was JUST building my own ISS! It looks just like this!

[Luna-Industries]

So I just attempted a rendezvous with the station using ideas suggested to me by SaSquatch. It did not go well. I ran about 300 m/s short of dV. It seems that 300 m/s lost by equipping the Aux. Fuel module is quite pervasive, even with the more efficient 40Ts being used for burns. It seems that, for the time being, my station plans are on hold until I can find some way of getting a loaded shuttle into orbit using the EFT and SRBs alone.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[biohazard15]

I suppose we're at a point where I may include an alternate parts pack that includes the four other cockpit segments. As long as you folks are ok with the parts bloat in the VAB since you'll have five cockpits show up in the VAB?

Do you guys want a blank cockpit in the VAB as well?

Personally I'm OK - it's not that bad with Texture Management.

Blank cockpit - why not? If 0.23.5 will allow us place flags on parts, maybe it can be modded to place a text string - then we can evenually easily name our shuttles.

[SaSquatch]

So I just attempted a rendezvous with the station using ideas suggested to me by SaSquatch. It did not go well. I ran about 300 m/s short of dV. It seems that 300 m/s lost by equipping the Aux. Fuel module is quite pervasive, even with the more efficient 40Ts being used for burns. It seems that, for the time being, my station plans are on hold until I can find some way of getting a loaded shuttle into orbit using the EFT and SRBs alone.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Did you lock the Aux Tank so it doesn't drain during Launch? I know it had a tendency of draining first on my launches.

[Luna-Industries]

Did you lock the Aux Tank so it doesn't drain during Launch? I know it had a tendency of draining first on my launches.

I have it set to not drain from the VAB. All "losses" from it are actually from the main tank to prevent feeding at improper times. I transfer fuel from the aux module to it. Still, it chews through my fuel once I'm up there.

[Mecripp]

I suppose we're at a point where I may include an alternate parts pack that includes the four other cockpit segments. As long as you folks are ok with the parts bloat in the VAB since you'll have five cockpits show up in the VAB?

Going to edit the Alternate Names pack to include cockpits. Folks that just want the texture, can simply drag and drop the texture they want to replace their stock texture. Everyone else that wants all five cockpits in the VAB can just install as normal.

Do you guys want a blank cockpit in the VAB as well?

Good the way it is just in the KSO_Alternate_Names download folder if it had the CFG file to use Firespitter plugin would be great and if 1 was made can it be posted ?

[SaSquatch]

I have it set to not drain from the VAB. All "losses" from it are actually from the main tank to prevent feeding at improper times. I transfer fuel from the aux module to it. Still, it chews through my fuel once I'm up there.

What is your cargo setup like? I'm curious if i'm just not recreating the load you're intending.

[Lekke]

Finished construction on my second station. This one is in a 300 Km orbit.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited March 25, 2014 by Lekke

[Bioman222]

Above, take the #0 out of your album's imgur code.

[tygoo7]

I suppose we're at a point where I may include an alternate parts pack that includes the four other cockpit segments. As long as you folks are ok with the parts bloat in the VAB since you'll have five cockpits show up in the VAB?

Going to edit the Alternate Names pack to include cockpits. Folks that just want the texture, can simply drag and drop the texture they want to replace their stock texture. Everyone else that wants all five cockpits in the VAB can just install as normal.

Do you guys want a blank cockpit in the VAB as well?

Have you tried FS texture switcher?

[hieywiey]

I think we should make a tutorial (without the Werner Von Kerman or Gene Kerman . Like the way Kethane has) for a more complete feel.

[Mecripp]

Have you tried FS texture switcher?

You good with writing cfg for FS texture switcher ?

Anyone know if FS texture just works with PNG ?

Edited March 25, 2014 by Mecripp2

[Luna-Industries]

What is your cargo setup like? I'm curious if i'm just not recreating the load you're intending.

I've been alternating between using the auxiliary fuel module alone, and said module, the standard docking adapter, and one port. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference either way.

[Martin_Baker]

I'd like to modify my part.cfg for KSO cockpit to get all five names simultaneously. I recall that there was a post explaining how to do that (or even a config for MM), but it seems I can't find it. Any help?

Biohazard, take a look at the excellent post by FREEMANtsinq on page 119 of this thread. He has posted an excellent tutorial when I asked the same thing. Very easy to follow and worked well.

I hope this helps.

[MechieMan21]

So after updating to KSO 2.07 I found an issue, after much troubleshooting, with the ScanSatRPM folder interfering with Blizzy's toolbar mod and Sarbain's Optional MechJeb modules. Having these installed together prevented any MechJeb window from appearing. Anyone else run into this? Deleting the ScanSatRPM folder fixed the issue.

[helldiver]

If it isn't asking too much and to add to this excellent mod(s)... could a KSO "tilting decoupler" be provided as an optional KSO equipment?

Since I lack of the proper words to describe it... basically is a decoupler which tilts vertically from its default horizontal position (default during transport) allowing Sats/other payloads to be shoot up vertically from the cargo-hold. Like the NASA shuttles used...

You can find my request and pictures of what I'm talking about under the following link. Cheers

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58029-Tilting-decoupler-for-shuttle-cargo-hold

-Loved the idea originally and the KSO's robotic arm was supposed to work like this. And then my dreams were dashed when Nazari informed me that without a Plugin, you can't animate decouplers. In other words, although the 3D visual model will rotate outwards, your payload will still be coupled in the same spot you put it in the VAB.

-You will need the Robotics plugin to do that sort of thing. I've entertained the idea of putting together a KSO specific robotic arm, "Kanadarm", but it would require clearance from that mod's team. Like the AR-KSO10 AP system, you'd have to have that mod installed for it to function.

Why do you need both a docking port and a AFM if all you're doing is science? You don't need to dock with anything if the mission is anything like the real Spacelab ones. The AFM isn't even needed for such mission, as you can get quite a long way with the Orbiter in the latest update. You can get a 300km orbit with a lab and some science stuff in the cargobay and come back safely.

The other issue is VAB bloat.

The only reason you'd want a smaller lab than the KerbaLab is if you wanted a Standard Docking port in there. The KerbaLab plus KSOAFM should fit perfectly in the cargo hold and I believe you can slap a stock docking port on top of the KerbaLab (KSOS Docking ports require nodes I believe).

When I try to acces the cameras through the laptops they all say no signal. Aren't they supposed to show the IVA of the other modules that I have on the station or am I missing something?

No they don't do that. The Cameras in the laptops or MFDs are linked to cameras built into the various KSOS components (KSO or the SST). If you download JSI RPM it comes with an actual Camera part that you can place all over your spacecraft. The Laptops and the MFDs should pick those up.

This is probably how the RCS booms are intended to work, right?

Applying thrust in separate directions like this is how the SST would be much less frustrating to use.

No, you're not using the SST correctly. It requires practice and a bit of learning to use it well.

-You should only extend the arms if you'll be maneuvering a heavy weight (greater than 1.5tons. The Trusses included in KSOS Phase II are really light (as they should be) and do not provide enough mass to balance out the SST with its arms extended. If maneuvering these light pieces, retract the arms instead.

-Do to RCS on same part buggy behavior by KSP, you shouldn't rely completely on RCS. Practice shutting it on and off and uses SAS to pitch, roll, and yaw the SST until you're aligned with the target. Activate RCS for final translation adjustments and to push yourself in.

We're well aware of this. Thing is, rcs thrusters are set up correctly, and the game doesn't like our little tug. The modules in 2.07 have torque on them, and making this change immediately made them easy to control for helldiver. When you move something light, like a truss, go ahead and retract the booms.

A shame the game doesn't handle it right, the tug is a great idea. But I don't know anything about how it works behind the scenes or if it's even possible to fix it as is.

Edit: After looking at the configuration files, I noticed the tug has much less torque than the modules themselves. Think you could boost the torque of the tug to the same level to make it easier to use?

Every config file is built and tested by Nazari and later scrutinized by me. We know about the less torque on the tug. I believe Naz left it that way so that the tug was smoother and not so jerky. But I agree, we can look into bumping up its torque. The stock game SAS Torque wheels are like super extreme (3 times the power of anything you'd find in the KSOS parts).

Personally, I kind of like the challenge of maneuvering parts into place. I mean half of us are already using automated systems to do rendezvous maneuvers so if we completely zero out the SST we've got very little "game" left. Follow me? The current SST provides a little bit of challenge and takes some skill to learn it and but not so much that it's impossible to use. I think its difficulty is about a 6 which isn't so bad (compared to the KSO's 7, a 10 being Lego-Land easy).

I am pretty sure that each part in the VAB has a COST value attached to it.. Just add that up (I don't use KSO anymore so I can't confirm this myself) and compare it to a rocket with equal lifting capability.

When an economic system is put into place in KSP, I think the parts should be revalued to reflect the ridiculous cost of making a space shuttle vs using disposable rockets.

Cost is a fake number that isn't used. In other words ignore it. And by ridiculous cost you mean, "Ridiculous cost in the Real World with government contractor beaurocracies and political interest lobbying?" then yes.. that doesn't apply to Fantasy Kerbal Land at all. Think about it... do you honestly think a realistic space program would allow that many accidents, ignore safety standards, insurance, and everything else that's involved? If that were true the entire KSP would balloon up to be more expensive than their entire military budget.

When the Cost number is finally relevant, and if you've kept track of the descriptions of each KSO part (I don't expect you to since you said you don't use it?), the KSO Consortium (Murika SuperStellar, Orbitz Aerospace, Kerbal Materials Corp., and so on) made the KSO and its parts to be competitive with any other system. Think of them as a private venture similar to Scaled Composites. Their analogs being:

Murika Superstellar: Boeing

Orbitz Aerospace: BAE Aerospace

Kerbal Materials Corp: Scaled Composites or Textron

VEG Design Group: General Dynamics or Lockheed Martin

For its weight, size, cargo capacity the whole purpose of the KSO consortium was to design a lifter that was cheaper but that at the same time allowed for an orbiter that could safely land at any prepared runway, used civilian navigational systems (hence the various nav radios on the side panels), and pretty much handled like a true aircraft once in the proper atmospheric pressure. The KSO does not handle like a NASA Shuttle or Buran orbiter at all. It handles like a glider and flies and lands similar to a 737 as opposed to a falling rock. Westi29 rated its stall speed at about 75 mph, landing speeds are about 90 to 100mph with 120mph being more common.

Then we have the issue of program costs versus real world stuff. Obviously the startup cost for any Kerbin nation or Corporation (the KSO was designed to be a commercial vehicle, not just a publicly funded vehicle) will be a lot more expensive than a similar disposable conventional rocket program (1.2 Billion US compared to 100-250 Million for traditional capsule return system). That means that for 1.2 Billion (plus options) any Kerbin nation, Corporation, or shoot... very rich individual could own their very own KSO with lifter (support systems, maintenance program sold separately). Those are my figures for Kerbal land, not real world figures.

And then we have construction and reusability. The KSO uses kerbon-graphite monocoque construction on top of titanite or alium frames. Its wings use kyrofoam cores with polykerbon honeycomb sheeting (similar to an F-16's control surfaces). Hence they are super light, but very strong. Its heat shield uses an advanced aerogel that requires very little maintenance if any (replacement of some of the tiles begins at around the third launch). Again keep in mind size of Kerbin, atmospheric density, and the size of the KSO. Also, the rest of the KSO's internal components are off the shelf, significantly reducing its cost further. Need to replace its tires? Any aviation grade radials of the same size will do. Need to replace an actuator? Same thing. Servos? Same thing. It's multi-function displays break? Order a new one from a variety of companies (Anatid Robotics, RPM Industries, etcetera).

The lifter itself is currently disposable, but I'm sure various programs or companies have their own lifter version that may be reusable. Keep in mind that the KSO can be purchased standalone (800 million for a Block 7) and you can provide your own lift vehicle.

I haven't worked out what the launch cost is compared to the real world. I've figured given the entire program, you'd be looking at 100million for your first launches and slowly that price would reduce down to about 40-50 million per launch.

Anyhow, just some fluff!

Yes, that KSO you're flying costs about 800 million US.. Think about that next time you roll it around on the ground....

[Mecripp]

So after updating to KSO 2.07 I found an issue, after much troubleshooting, with the ScanSatRPM folder interfering with Blizzy's toolbar mod and Sarbain's Optional MechJeb modules. Having these installed together prevented any MechJeb window from appearing. Anyone else run into this? Deleting the ScanSatRPM folder fixed the issue.

Yes, I have but after delete them and reinstalled KSO all worked good for me.