[0.90WIP] Procedural Parts - Parts the way you want 'em 0.9.21, Dec 19

[ZaPPPa]

Quick note:

The standard mass of a RealFuels (\ProceduralParts\Parts\ZOtherMods\RFTank.cfg) tank is 1.0. This is, unfortunately, the value KSP uses to calculate the mass for the Launchpad maximum tonnage. A ship that is calculated as ~14t by MechJeb is calculated as 22.1t by the launchpad preventing me from launching it (non-upgraded launchpad has max allowed of 18t). I like using rounded conical tanks to make my rockets look pretty, so each middle tank with a rounded top and bottom will weight 3.0t according to KSP.

The 1.0 does not change when the procedural part is stretched, so I understand that an average number has to be chosen until someone figures out how to make KSP calculate the launch mass properly. I'd suggest making the base mass 0.5 or so, which makes tanks of 2m and smaller more accurately weighed by the launchpad.

[RadarManFromTheMoon]

Quick note:

The standard mass of a RealFuels (\ProceduralParts\Parts\ZOtherMods\RFTank.cfg) tank is 1.0. This is, unfortunately, the value KSP uses to calculate the mass for the Launchpad maximum tonnage. A ship that is calculated as ~14t by MechJeb is calculated as 22.1t by the launchpad preventing me from launching it (non-upgraded launchpad has max allowed of 18t). I like using rounded conical tanks to make my rockets look pretty, so each middle tank with a rounded top and bottom will weight 3.0t according to KSP.

The 1.0 does not change when the procedural part is stretched, so I understand that an average number has to be chosen until someone figures out how to make KSP calculate the launch mass properly. I'd suggest making the base mass 0.5 or so, which makes tanks of 2m and smaller more accurately weighed by the launchpad.

Thats a RF issue. RF does not use the Part module that PP uses to set the editor mass. So I guess it will have to set it itself. Or send a pull request.

[Gumysh]

Not sure if this is the best channel, but I think I found a bug: the techlimits don't apply in Science Sandbox mode. The problem seems to be in ProceduralPart.cs, InitializeTechLimits(). Could a dev fix the condition there, please?

[NathanKell]

Ah, bet they check for mode == Career rather than mode != Sandbox. I fixed that in RF but not PP, I think.

[MainSailor]

Those are really cool MainSailor. my main disagreement with the procedural mods is the lack of texture fidelity.

Thanks. I designed the core tank texture to work well as a full size tank. I'm still tweaking however. Check back next week for some new ones too.

Think that textures pack still works with them? I think it's called freedom textures. I'll go find out.

Freedom's pack is pretty good, and Blackheart has some too:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/94606-JebediahKerman42-s-Procedural-Part-Textures!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/68892-0-23-5-Procedural-Parts-Textures-Procedural-KW-June13-TextureSwitch!

[Perry Apsis]

Nah, doesn't work here, all the procedural parts have the default Tiles texture, and can't be right clicked.

http://i.imgur.com/Ck32s8O.png

Exactly the same issue here. Not sure why it's working for most people and not for you and me. I'm running MechJeb, KAS, and Procedural Fairings in 0.9 Windows 32-bit.

EDIT: Somehow I must have installed an older version by accident (I keep all my KSP downloads in a single folder, so I probably just clicked the wrong one). I removed the Procedural Parts folder from Game Data and installed the correct one and I stopped getting the message about the incompatible KSPAPIExtensions.dll and the mod started working correctly.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Perry Apsis

[RadarManFromTheMoon]

Not sure if this is the best channel, but I think I found a bug: the techlimits don't apply in Science Sandbox mode. The problem seems to be in ProceduralPart.cs, InitializeTechLimits(). Could a dev fix the condition there, please?

Thanks for the report. Will be fixed in the next release.

[westamastaflash]

I'm having a bit of trouble. Seems the burn time for SRBs isn't "sticky". I'm combining PP, RealFuels, 6.4x, and a ton of other mods.

When the ship is loaded on launch, the SRB bell is shrunk significantly.

This even happens if I save the vessel and reload it in the editor.

To reproduce, create just a pod with an SRB. Reduce the amount of fuel in the SRB, and change the burn time down below 60 sec.. Save, and then load the vessel.

This doesn't seem to happen if I keep the Solid fuel bar full.

[vectorbased]

Also having some trouble with the mod. I'm using Procedural Parts to attempt to make tanks for my fuel dump in Kerbin orbit and two issues are occurring... the strength of the connection points seems strangely weak. Things are not snapping together with a useable bond. Considering the use of using kerbal joint reinforcement mod to see if there's a difference. Also, unable to attach parts to the exteriors or the tanks made with procedural parts. When moving to the Launchpad everything falls off the exterior of the tanks.... also, the tanks seem to explode too easily under the weight of my station parts.

I am making some pretty large station components but as an experienced KSP player I find the procedural parts structurally weak, possibly a bug?

[Mystique]

Extraplanetary launchpads procedural tank's dry mass seems to be way too big compared to EL's tanks. For example, biggest EL tank is 4.2 tons dry, while procedural is 19+ tons (scaled for same number of parts as EL tank). Can it be fixed in configs for future releases?

Dry density to match EL seems to be 0.070 instead of current 0.325 (at least for rocket parts tanks, I don't use kethane so I don't even have ore and metal).

Edited December 31, 2014 by Mystique

[Northstar1989]

@swamp_ig, NathanKell

This is highly similar to a post I made on the RealFuels thread, but as it is an issue that is primarily of concern when both RealFuels and Procedural Parts are installed (although it also rears its head with combinations like NovaPunch2 + RealFuels), I thought I'd point it out again here...

Procedural Parts currently fails to properly model pressurized fuel tanks. That is, stage types that could have fuel tanks sufficiently pressurized that their fuel volume capacity actually exceeds what could be held at 1 atmosphere of pressure, are never capable of holding more fuel mass/volume than what equates to 100% utilization at 1 atmosphere of pressure in Procedural Parts.

This mainly holds true of Service Modules (which can reach an average utilization of 400%, 500% or more compared to tanks a 1 atmosphere- through high pressurization in real life), but also could be thought to apply to other tank types to a limited degree, as other tank types are often pressurized at a lower level (the Space Shuttle External Fuel Tank was pressurized to 1.5 atm, for instance)

This mainly affects Service Module parts from the Procedural Parts mod, but also affects a few mod "Service Module" parts such as the NovaPunch2 "Yawmaster Service Module". All of these parts have MUCH lower volume capacities than they should for their size, as real life service modules often exceed 400% utilization (and can reach 500% or more) compared to 1 atm through highly pressurizing the fuel tanks. Even ordinary fuel tanks are often pressurized- the Space Shuttle External Fuel Tank was pressurized to 1.5 atm, for example...

The mass of the fuel tanks should be scaled with the volume capacity- i.e. a Procedural Parts Service Module with 500% utilization should have slightly more than 5x the tank mass of a BalloonCryo tank of the same size (Service Module tanks are also insulated in Procedural Parts, and there doesn't seem to be a way to create Service Modules with uninsulated pressurized fuel tanks for hypergolic...) I say *more than* 5x the tank mass because service modules often include more structural mass than standard fuel tanks in real life (the Procedural Parts mod already accounts for this with an inferior mass-fraction).

The primary advantage of service modules is that they hold a lot more fuel mass for their physical size due to pressurization (thus creating a much more compact aerodynamic profile with a higher ballistic-coefficient, or fitting inside smaller fairings, among other benefits) but strangely, this advantage is NOT reflected in the Procedural Parts- making them just heavy fuel tanks with inferior mass-ratios compared to all the other fuel tank types (they do have the capability to store ElectricCharge, but this is only a minor benefit for their much higher mass...) There is no easy way to simulate the other main benefit of pressurization in KSP besides a higher space utilization- the ability to efficiently use pressure-fed engines that are simpler/cheaper/lighter to design and manufacture compared to those relying on turbopumps...

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. Turns out that fuel tanks are often even more highly pressurized than I thought. Any pressure-fed rocket engine requires *higher* tank pressure than chamber pressure, and the Kestrel pressure-fed rocket engine of the Falcon 1 had a chamber pressure of 930 kPa (9.18 atm), for instance. Which means, the fuel tanks of the Falcon 1 upper stage were pressurized to at least 930 kPa as well...

P.P.S. Just a note for anyone trying to look up tank pressures on their own: often, the tank pressures must be devised by inference from the chamber pressures of pressure-fed engines (and is often not available at all for turbopump-fed engines). For some reason, space agencies aren't exactly eager to publicly share the pressure levels of the fuel tanks in their rockets...

Edited January 2, 2015 by Northstar1989

[Fox Loco]

I'm having a trouble with the procedural SRB. It comes as standard in the VAB 1m diameter if I try to increase or decrease it it sets a maximum of 0.200m. Career mode ksp 32bit

[Captain Planet]

Found a persistence bug with this in 0.90 when using the Offset editor gizmo.

If you use the offset tool to partially clip a part into any procedural tank, this clipping isn't persistent. So, the next time you load that craft, the parts will still be attached but it will be as if the offset tool was never used.

Edit: I've spent some time reproducing this bug and it seems that if you use the procedural part itself as the attach point, then use offset tool to clip the attaching part partially into the procedural part, that causes the bug I'm referring to. When I used a ladder that attached to a stock part but then offset it into the procedural part, the bug didn't happen. Hope that makes sense.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Captain Planet

[acc]

@Captain Planet: yep, I can confirm that.

btw. has someone fixed configs for the procedural life support tank?

[NathanKell]

Northstar1989, you are being and will be answered on the RF thread.

[leops1984]

I found a bug and have a question about texture settings. First, the bug: with the new Modular Fuel Tanks the right-click menu that changes dimensions/textures/etc. isn't showing up at all. Verified on a stock install with only ModuleManager, MFT, and Procedural Parts installed.

Secondly, I'm trying to create a texture that's like the first stage of the Atlas V: copper-toned, but a very dull one. I have essentially zero graphical skill, so I tried looking for possible textures online and found two that I could use. So far, though, my results so far are mixed:

Here's attempt #1, the texture (reduced to a smaller size), and the settings:

	Copper2
	{
		sides
		{
			texture = mymods/Copper/copper2
			uScale = 1.0
			vScale = 0.5
			autoScale = true
			shininess = 0.05
			specular = 0.6, 0.6, 0.6
		}
		ends
		{
			texture = StretchyTanks/Parts/ends
		}
	}

Too shiny in the middle... so here's attempt #2:

	Copper
	{
		sides
		{
			texture = mymods/Copper/copper
			uScale = 1.0
			vScale = 1.0
		}
		ends
		{
			texture = StretchyTanks/Parts/ends
		}
	}

I turned off autoscale in #2 because the texture I found tiled very poorly... any suggestions to what settings and/or texture edits I can use to improve the look of the textures and match the actual tone I'm looking for more closely?

Edited January 4, 2015 by leops1984

[RadarManFromTheMoon]

I'm having a trouble with the procedural SRB. It comes as standard in the VAB 1m diameter if I try to increase or decrease it it sets a maximum of 0.200m. Career mode ksp 32bit

Cannot reproduce. Standard diameter is 1.25, minimum diameter is 1 meter(1.75 max) at the beginning of the tech tree. Can you give further reproduction steps?

Found a persistence bug with this in 0.90 when using the Offset editor gizmo.

If you use the offset tool to partially clip a part into any procedural tank, this clipping isn't persistent. So, the next time you load that craft, the parts will still be attached but it will be as if the offset tool was never used.

Edit: I've spent some time reproducing this bug and it seems that if you use the procedural part itself as the attach point, then use offset tool to clip the attaching part partially into the procedural part, that causes the bug I'm referring to. When I used a ladder that attached to a stock part but then offset it into the procedural part, the bug didn't happen. Hope that makes sense.

I confirm that. PP does not really handle the offset tool well. Workaround for now: Avoid clipping procedural tanks into other procedural tanks.

@leops1984: Please look here for your MFT problem.

Edited January 4, 2015 by RadarManFromTheMoon

[Yemo]

Hello,

I m working on a BalanceMode (SETI), which combines and tweaks existing mods to provide a somewhat coherent gameplay experience.

Currently the mod has those features:

- Parts not adding functionality replaced by procedural parts, the originals are still in the previously unused tech node "experimental motos", for easy reference if you want some back

- procedural batteries rebalanced, procedural parts adjusted to new tech progression

- unmanned Start, Planes second but can be skipped, manned space flight third

- up to level 5 tech, part and fund progression rebalanced

- science is not abundant after the first few techs due to contract reward limits

- admin strategies meaningful

Since the employment of Procedural Parts is one of the key aspects I wanted to thank the devs of Procedural Parts for their work.

Also if anyone wants to check out the mod, you can find it here.

Improvement suggestions:

I found the procedural batteries to be very cheap compared to stock, when balancing the mod. You might want to look into that.

Also, when some parts (eg the SRB) are defined to start with smaller dimensions than the default setting, I had to right-click them to make them stick to those restrictions.

Thanks again for this mod and have fun!

[NathanKell]

Fox Loco: RP-0 sets the starting maximum diameter to 0.2m. That's working as designed. However, I forgot to also change the initial diameter, so the thing starts out at 1m diameter...will be fixed.

[Captain Planet]

Workaround for now: Avoid clipping procedural tanks into other procedural tanks.

You mean avoid clipping anything into procedural tanks.

[John FX]

I am experiencing the bug where loading a craft with a procedural fuel tank that has less fuel than max due to tweaking resets the tank to be full of fuel instead of a tweaked amount when you load it in the VAB. I recieved an email that told me that b5f4570 fixes this behaviour so I downloaded the latest build, deleted the old procedural parts folder and replaced it with the one from the zip but my craft are still having their tanks reset on load in the VAB. Could someone let me know if that bugfix is in the latest build please?

[leops1984]

@leops1984: Please look here for your MFT problem.

I was using 5.4.0, but that appears to have bugs of its own right now. It's probably MFT after all.

About the clipping: I've found that it's not ALWAYS the case that it returns to the original unclipped setting. I don't have my KSP install handy, but: I had a short PP tank attached to bottom of a longer PP tank (entirely so I could use different textures). I was clipping a rocket engine into the short PP tank, past the halfway point vertically. What I found was the rocket would instead be attached to the attachment node between the two PP tanks.

Edited January 5, 2015 by leops1984

[mecki]

I don't know if it's a problem with Procedural Tanks, RO, Tweakscale or RSS (will also post this in the corresponding threads) but I'm having huge problems with correct placement of my crafts on the Launch Pad.

My Procedural SRBs get placed on the Launch Pad as if they were always 2.5m long which results in them either falling or bouncing out of the floor high up into the air.

I can't really launch without the Launch Stability Enhancer that way.

[Yemo]

When using Procedural Parts in conjunction with Mark 1 Airplane parts, there is no fitting texture available. Plain white is much too bright, the "corrugated" one looks strange horizontally and the other ones are even further away from the "dark white" of the stock parts.

Improvement suggestion: A texture fitting in with Aero/Cockpit parts

Thank you very much for this great mod.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Yemo

[RadarManFromTheMoon]

I am experiencing the bug where loading a craft with a procedural fuel tank that has less fuel than max due to tweaking resets the tank to be full of fuel instead of a tweaked amount when you load it in the VAB. I recieved an email that told me that b5f4570 fixes this behaviour so I downloaded the latest build, deleted the old procedural parts folder and replaced it with the one from the zip but my craft are still having their tanks reset on load in the VAB. Could someone let me know if that bugfix is in the latest build please?

That bug will be fixed in the next release.

I don't know if it's a problem with Procedural Tanks, RO, Tweakscale or RSS (will also post this in the corresponding threads) but I'm having huge problems with correct placement of my crafts on the Launch Pad.

My Procedural SRBs get placed on the Launch Pad as if they were always 2.5m long which results in them either falling or bouncing out of the floor high up into the air.

I can't really launch without the Launch Stability Enhancer that way.

Thats a known problem. ATM, using launchclamps seems to be the only workaround indeed.

Edit:

@Mystique: I tweaked the extraplanetary lanchpad tanks and they now, hopefully, resemble the EL-tanks much more closely. You can either wait for the next release or, if you know what you do, get the config from the github repository.

Edited January 6, 2015 by RadarManFromTheMoon