I am starting a new project: THE BIGGEST SPACEPLANE IN KSP EVER!!!

[MedwedianPresident]

So, i and my dad recently had the idea to create a really big spaceplane; the size of at least 500 meters. It would be orbit-capable; it would also be SSTO because i can't imagine the size of a hypersonic launch stage for such a spaceplane. It will use a giant cluster turbojets and then RAPIERS to ascend. There i think would be 2 or 3 rows of each time 10 RAPIERS. The intakes for the jets will be located in a special section on the bottom of the spaceplane (similar to the XB-70 Vaklyrie); it would be housing the jets and it either would be jettisoned after those engines would be unusable at a high altitude or wing sections would be rotated to cover it using Infernal Robotics. The spaceplane would after disabling the jets and switching the RAPIERS to rocket mode perform the final ascent to orbit where it could be used as a heavy cruiser - it would be at least 5 times as big as a standard Shuttle. It could bring whole space stations into orbit; or maybe orbital weapon platforms. It would need HORRENDEROUS TONS OF FUEL; which all would be burned quickly, and i think it's zone of operations will be restricted to Kerbin's SOI; although it can be refuelled in orbit and have drop tanks. It would also have 4 small rocket engines for orbital manoeuvring; and also one pair of reverse ones (located in openable sections of the wings like in the Delta Glider) for deorbit. It will definitely not land on the runway; i think it would need the diameter of the whole KSC flat area to decelerate even when using parachutes. Anyways; the reentry will look beautiful.

Your thoughts/ideas/tips/warnings?

P.S.: I know, i maybe will murder my computer because of the part count.

[KvickFlygarn87]

Not until 64 bit you're not! Might as well start sketching on it though, since Unity is working on it.

Also, why is this under Gameplay Questions? I know you asked for our thoughts/ideas/tips/warnings, but IMHO this belongs better in General KSP Discussion.

[MedwedianPresident]

Okay...

Anyways; my new computer might have 64 bits. And i am building it out of parts, not as a mod.

If it has to be moved, obviously i will welcome any action taken by a moderator to do so.

[MedwedianPresident]

Please reply to this. I need comments.

[Sirrobert]

Okay...

Anyways; my new computer might have 64 bits. And i am building it out of parts, not as a mod.

If it has to be moved, obviously i will welcome any action taken by a moderator to do so.

He means 64 bit KSP

KSP is currently still stuck in 32 bit.

The plane you want would have thousands of parts. You'd be flying a slideshow

[Red Iron Crown]

Get the part welder mod to weld together groups of similar parts, should help to keep the part count down. It's unlikely you'll run into memory problems with a single craft, even if it is made of thousands of parts. Performance will be an issue with higher part counts, though, and is likely to be the limiting factor for how big you can go and still be able to fly it.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Red Iron Crown
Fixed a typo.

[MedwedianPresident]

For tests; i will build a small or medium Rockwell X-30-style spaceplane to experiment with multiple rows of engines; then i will gradually start scaling up until i get to the maximum possible size.

Also; it will use the "Skin and Bones" technique - this means that i will place retrorockets and fuel into the wings and et cetera. The cargo bay should be able to bring large chunks of space stations into orbit.

It will basically be a cross between a Valkyrie and a giant Delta Glider.

[capi3101]

Five times the size of the shuttle, eh? Are you talking about in terms of mass, volume or both?

A 342.5 tonne spaceplane would definitely be larger than anything I've ever seen in the game (largest spaceplane I've ever built that was successful was about seventy tonnes, ever so slightly more massive than the STS orbiter by itself). Constructing something like that might be possible - but to get it to haul whole stations into orbit, you'll need mods. There's the one that does include cargobays...I don't recall which one it is off the top of my head. I want to say B9 but don't quote me on that. Somebody along the line might also suggest FAR; I think with the mass you're talking about it might be a wise investment (stock KSP calculates drag based on mass instead of cross-section).

[Claw]

I vaguely recall seeing something around a 400t space plane but I don't remember where. And I'm sure there are bigger ones out there.

Well, another thing to be aware of similar to part count is engine count. I find that having a cluster of 30 or 40 turbojets can put a heafty dent in the frame count when they are all turned on.

Also, spend a lot of time at the beginning figuring out where you are going to mount the landing gear. Wing and fuselage flex become a problem for planes that big.

If you are serious about building a massive plane and are considering mods, you may want to think about mods like Procedural Wings or B9 too. Like the welder, they can reduce part count (notably for the wings). I haven't tried either myself (I'm not a big mods guy), but it might help if you don't care about it being stock.

BTW: Your space plane wouldn't be an SSTO if you jettison things on the way up. Jettisoning intakes in stock KSP doesn't buy you too much anyway because of the way the drag model works. I'm not saying "don't jettison them," just that you won't need to if you're dropping them because of drag. Plus you might need them later to fly for landing.

[MedwedianPresident]

Yes; it will not be a real SSTO as it definitely will have jettisonable parts. For large wings, i'll probably use Taverio's pack. And the giant cargo bays are brought by the Mk4 parts pack which allows you to build Guppy style airplanes. I will definitely use it; or i will manually build one using infernal robotics.

[MedwedianPresident]

Just as an update; my spaceplane will be named "Miratuz" after my favourite teddy bear that i had as a child. So the first scaled-down version for tests would be called "Little Miratuz"; then comes the "Medium Miratuz"; and finally the full Kjolsen Aerospace K-5000 Miratuz Class super-heavy spaceplane. Also, yes i am taking this seriously; and i will develop it slowly and carefully to achieve success.

Planned list of spacecraft:

BSPATV (Big Space Plane Aerodynamic Test Vehicle) | A small glider having roughly the shape of the Little Miratuz; to be dropped in front of the runway from an altitude of 6 kilometres from a subsonic bomber.

BSPRTV (Big Space Plane Reentry Test Vehicle) | Same as BSPATV, but equipped with heat shield tiles (KerbPaint) and dropped from a supersonic bomber to from an altitude of 20 kilometres; in the Kafrican mountains. It will be used for testing the final supersonic deceleration and full approach.

KA-1500 "Little Miratuz" | A little, orbit-capable "model" of the Miratuz; no bigger than 80 meters; already having a rudimentary version of the DROSPAJST (Droppable Spaceplane Jet Stage) for acceleration to supersonic speeds. First will be used for suborbital tests; then for orbital tests. Then it will be upgraded to the KA-1600 "Old Little Miratuz"; which would be useable for standard missions and equipped with a cargo bay.

KA-2500 "Medium Miratuz" | A scale model approximately one third the size of the final Miratuz; mainly for testing aerodynamic properties of large-scale spaceplanes and recoverability of the jet stage which can be theoretically dropped in a suborbital trajectory which would allow the spaceplane to circularise quickly and then land the jet stage. It also would be used for the development of RATO systems and the picking of the landing gear and deceleration parachute configuration for the final Miratuz. It would be later upgraded to the KA-2600 "Old Medium Miratuz"; a similar vehicle to the KA-1600; which would be used for bringing large space station modules into orbit. The Medium Miratuz will be used to plan the RAPIER configuration for the final Miratuz.

and finally:

KA-5000 "Big Miratuz" (aka Kjølsen Aerospace Miratuz-Class Ultra-Heavy Spaceplane | The final thing - the really big Miratuz. It will have a crew of more than 10 and would have retrorockets in openable sections of the wings for deorbiting without having to use tons of RCS fuel for orientation. It would be able to bring over 100 tons into orbit and would be the first of my REALLY BIG SHIPS. It would burn tons of fuel in a second and would be the ultimate King of all the Spaceplanes; maybe even going into Kuiness World Records. What i want it to be is to be bigger than ANY spaceplane in the KSP Community. It would have many sub-models that would be designed for the Military or just KerbPainted to use with different corporations. Certainly it will be a real monster.

[Pecan]

...at least 500 meters.

To put this in context - the orange tube fuel tank is, I think, the longest single stock part. It's about 4m (rough eyeball guestimate). You're planning to build something that's (at least) the length of 125 orange tubes end-to-end? Not only won't it land on the runway; there won't be much runway length to take-off from in the first place! (No, I'm not thinking or suggesting you'd use those tanks that way, just getting a length comparison).

What was the height of the arking ... arke ... bloody tall thing Whackjob built recently? Whatever it was you're talking about comparable complexity.

[MedwedianPresident]

Okay...not 500 meters; maybe approximately 100-200?

[Gauss H2K]

Good Luck, I was only recently able to put a 90 ton SSTO into orbit, I found that more engines=more problems, so I've been really looking towards the one rapier SSTO's for their part counts and ease of build.

[MedwedianPresident]

I understand; but i like complex things. You understand; having a little aircraft with intake spam is boring while having a giant "thingy" and constantly developing it is in fact very interesting.

ESCAPE SYSTEM IDEA

An idea for an escape system that would work during ascent AND reentry would be quickly separating the cockpit and passenger section using sepatrons (maybe letting some control surfaces go with it for steering) and landing it either horizontally if it has enough lift or using parachutes. Because i know that definitely there WILL be some incidents with parts flying off during ascent or columbia-style disasters caused by the high drag during reentry.

[MedwedianPresident]

Just keepin' it up.

[wasmic]

He means 64 bit KSP

KSP is currently still stuck in 32 bit.

The plane you want would have thousands of parts. You'd be flying a slideshow

64 bit KSP wouldn't help with that. What would help with that would be physics multithreading.

[MedwedianPresident]

What is Physics Multithreading?

[The Destroyer]

Not possible without the welder mod.

Simple enough, too much lag and physics breaking down, and your KSP would probably crash every launch, and possibly corrupt.

Physics multithreading is like using multi-cores, IIRC. Instead of it using a single core.

[MedwedianPresident]

Anyways; any thoughts on my escape system idea?

[AlamoVampire]

hate to say it, its not gonna work. Its just gonna be too big for unity to handle, if it DOES work, its gonna be like a frame per DAY real time, but, best of luck!

[MedwedianPresident]

I am not making it 500 meters; i am making it just slightly bigger than a standard superheavy spaceplane.

Any thoughts on the escape system?

[Nuke]

Not until 64 bit you're not! Might as well start sketching on it though, since Unity is working on it.

Also, why is this under Gameplay Questions? I know you asked for our thoughts/ideas/tips/warnings, but IMHO this belongs better in General KSP Discussion.

you can probibly make do with 32 bit if your running all stock.

[MedwedianPresident]

I will be obviously using as many mods as possible because i like mods; especially part-adding mods.

[zekes]

I heard the word "Kjolsen?"