[WIP] Universal Storage

[Daishi]

bac9 is working on a new subtype switcher for B9 Aerospace that is going to support node switching.

Wow, that's handy. Thanks for the heads up.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Daishi

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

If you'd like to try some node-switching stuff that's already working and in-use (used by ASET), you might check out JSI Part Utilities.

[Daishi]

If you'd like to try some node-switching stuff that's already working and in-use (used by ASET), you might check out JSI Part Utilities.

Interesting way they do it (spawning nodes 10km away, and moving them closer when required), will give it a whirl before Bac9 releases his plugin

[Daishi]

Just been mucking around with sizes and weights for these new expandable tanks - and realized that radially attached fuel tanks are incapable of transferring fuel through structural parts. Even if you have a fuel crossfeed setting in every applicable config file, it doesn't work without the aid of fuel lines. So, unless we use nodes in some way, the mod won't work properly without resorting to spamming partcount again. Not sure how to go about this :|

I'm thinking of...

* Traditional radii of nodes around single level cores (quad, hex and octo), with the same on single level wedges. No change from US1.

* Double level cores and wedges then have their nodes moved to the lower sockets; so the attached wedges don't overlap the nodes of a single level core (or part) that could be stacked above them.

* Triple level cores keep the nodes in the same place (now the middle sockets)

* Not sure about the quad height cores - do they need two rings of nodes at the top and the bottom?

And with all of this - should the cores still be made receptive to radially attachable parts? It would make the mod nicer to use alongside stock radials...

Edited June 15, 2015 by Daishi

[NoMrBond]

Would NathanKell's Crossfeed Enabler solve this?

[Daishi]

Would NathanKell's Crossfeed Enabler solve this?

Might do - would you say radial attachment is the way to go? Or is a node based attachment system worth keeping?

Thinking of different ways for service hatches to work with this shroud; as it will allow part attachment on its sides i can't let the door mechanisms become too obtrusive.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Daishi

[Paul Kingtiger]

Node would be easier to use. Radial is going to be a pain to line up.

I know you won't have to because it'll be behind a fairing, but people will want it neat anyway.

Could you have the expandable wedges, but standard cores like now. It would mean more parts but would fix the node problem (with the option to work it out and implement it later down the line).

[Capt. Hunt]

Maybe instead of expandable cores, just have different sized core parts, kinda like it is now but with height options as well as width options. That'll mean more parts in the VAB, but still fewer parts per rocket. If they all use common textures they shouldn't expend that much more memory.

You know what just occurred to me, Procedural fairings has an option to tweak how many nodes their base part has. Maybe you can adapt this?

Edited June 15, 2015 by Capt. Hunt

[Daishi]

Node would be easier to use. Radial is going to be a pain to line up.

I know you won't have to because it'll be behind a fairing, but people will want it neat anyway.

Could you have the expandable wedges, but standard cores like now. It would mean more parts but would fix the node problem (with the option to work it out and implement it later down the line).

Radial attachment isn't too bad, the cores have eight sided collision meshes so they clip in pretty cleanly when angle snap attachment is turned on. But its that fuel thing that bugs me. So yeah we'll stick with nodes The expanded wedges are likely to have single nodes anyway so i doubt a four-high core needs nodes on every level, but we'll see with some playtesting before release when everything is done.

Maybe instead of expandable cores, just have different sized core parts, kinda like it is now but with height options as well as width options. That'll mean more parts in the VAB, but still fewer parts per rocket. If they all use common textures they shouldn't expend that much more memory.

You know what just occurred to me, Procedural fairings has an option to tweak how many nodes their base part has. Maybe you can adapt this?

True true, but that's a lot of part bloat, and I consider a clean building experience important (hence half the reason for the ease of customization focus with US2). Half the fun of the game (for me) is construction. But yeah, any way we do this I can cut down on texture use massively. Might roll every core into a single texture map yet.

Will have a look at how Procedural Fairings does it, thanks! I haven't played properly since 0.23.5 tbh so i'm a little out of touch with the developments of other mods.

EDIT: Oh and Paul, i've managed to reduce the collision mesh for the octocore to squeeze a little more size out of the wedges. We should be able to get our resource capacity (especially monoprop, LF and uncompressed cryo stuff) to a competitive level now. A placeholder four-high LF tank holds the same as a FL-T100 based on some rough estimates.

With the weight of the central core taken into account, it's still far heavier than any stock tank (Eight four-high LF tanks is around the amount of a X200, plus 2 tons for a 4x stack of octos) so they'll never be a proper substitute to bulk tanks on a CSM. Should we try balance them and the weight of the cores, or just leave them as smallish contingency parts?

Edited June 16, 2015 by Daishi

[Daishi]

But then again, US was always about lifesupport storage, so I don't think LF and Monoprop needs too much thought.

[ev0]

I love reading dev threads with this many pics:D

[Daishi]

I love reading dev threads with this many pics:D

Had a few days off work, so I got stuck in to resolving the mesh of the interior bay. Rough textures for now, will unwrap things properly when things are all done. It's partially inspired from the surface under the decoupled Apollo CM.

[Daishi]

Revision progress of the US2 alkaline fuel cell, against its current model and the up-to-scratch converters. It will eventually reference its real world counterpart, I just need to add in more greebles on its top \ left hand side, and work a bit more bronzing into the textures.

New form factors for the oxygen tanks, still in early development. Having them as two spheres halves the polycount compared to what the current four-canister model has, and brings them closer to the Apollo CSM tanks.

I'm also tempted to start work on a Metal Hydride Fuel Cell, something that would be significantly larger than the Alkaline (requiring the expandable cores), unlockable at higher ends of the tech tree. This would run off pure hydrogen (or so I gather from the wiki article), run at an idle temp below room temperature, output more power, have a substantial energy capacity, and carry far more resources (to parallel the technology's "extended shelf life"). Though there are a ton of different technologies out there - many would probably best the Apollo-esque fuel cell stats we have now. Proton membrane fuel cells were slated to replace cells on the shuttle, so that's another option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_exchange_membrane_fuel_cell

Edited June 28, 2015 by Daishi

[Daishi]

Bringing in a little copper, and trying to keep the polycount on the tubes and valves conservative. At the moment its 500 tris less complex than the current model, so it shouldn't have any impact on performance. Still using UV maps and textures from the other generators to texture this - so when i'm confident with the color scheme i'll start ripping it apart and unwrapping it properly

[Daishi]

Because the shrouds are essentially going to act as fairings and heatsheilds, they need a bit more surface area on the inside to wick heat away (and integrate with some cool mysterious unseen cooling system). This also gives the appearance of a defined "bay" for each side of the core, helping the wedges themselves stand out a bit.

[damerell]

Because of this, i think the only way for wedges to attach cleanly is with surface attachment. Several dozen nodes on a single expanded part might break things :\

FWIW, Mobile Frame System adds and removes nodes on demand on parts that expand and contract, and its parts are utterly festooned with nodes if you turn them all on. Seems to work.

[Daishi]

FWIW, Mobile Frame System adds and removes nodes on demand on parts that expand and contract, and its parts are utterly festooned with nodes if you turn them all on. Seems to work.

Hmm, good find. Looks like it uses JSI Part Utilities too, even though it's out of date by several versions of KSP. I'll get all the parts made first and see what node generator plugins work when i'm done (here's hoping I won't be too long!). Thanks for keeping an eye out

[Nertea]

Always a pleasure to look at your greebles, Daishi. Masterful work.

[Daishi]

Always a pleasure to look at your greebles, Daishi. Masterful work.

Hah, thanks Nertea! Always means so much coming from such an experienced modder

Oxygen and Hydrogen modelling progress. Thinking of keeping the Kerbal-blue interface panels off anything but the generators - they don't duplicate well. Specular maps will make these parts stand out a lot more than they do now.

[Daishi]

Quick question, on top of the conventional resource storage parts, should I branch into more generalized things to expand the reach of the mod? I'm thinking...

* Battery / capacitor block (expandable)

* Inline radiator / heatsink block (expandable)

* Integrated short\long range antenna module (tweakable for range upgrades?)

Not sure if the firespitter plugin allows each variant to be unlockable at different stages of the tech tree though. I know mechjeb used to unlock features based on research nodes, but that's probably a feature of its own separate plugin.

[ModZero]

I'd love a bit more utility modules  sometimes I'd rather stick utility stuff (now using the "science bay") than heavy resource modules into empty spots. The transmitter doesn't really even have to be long-range, I mean, you're not really going to stick a 5m dish inside one bay (are you?), but it could be nice for e.g. AR mod's lander/orbiter comms.

[Daishi]

I'd love a bit more utility modules  sometimes I'd rather stick utility stuff (now using the "science bay") than heavy resource modules into empty spots. The transmitter doesn't really even have to be long-range, I mean, you're not really going to stick a 5m dish inside one bay (are you?), but it could be nice for e.g. AR mod's lander/orbiter comms.

Well, not a dish per-se, but more of an integrated antenna (although a fold out mechanism would be cool). Apart from the batteries and transmission equipment (and what Dmagic provides), what other utility would be useful to you as a wedge? I can't really do parachutes (and they'd be pretty awkward to use like that, IMHO), nor wheels (especially with their revamp\overhaul a big focus of Squad's). Solar panels would be tricky. The stock ones fit perfectly, so even if I could get them working, i'm not sure what else I could provide that the base game doesn't.

Also, boring dev pic while I work on something secret. Using texture atlasing for all the cores (so far), I can double the texture resolution while reducing the memory footprint by around 40%.

[ModZero]

what other utility would be useful to you as a wedge?

At risk of being painfully over-integrated: probe cores, kOS/Mechjeb cores (kOS > Mechjeb for me, but you could get a staring eye for Mechjeb, you know you want to), NFE stuff you mentioned (capacitor, mainly, perhaps a tiny RTG, though TBH unexposed RTGs are weird). Generally I often use US on landers, and like using them to keep the lander both compact and relatively "squat".

From stuff I use less but want to do more and I think some people would love, if we had "tall" wedges, then I suppose sticking a drill into one could be viable? Animated, like an antenna? I'd personally would probably just coo at the animation, but I'm sure people would actually use that.

[Sandworm]

What other utility would be useful to you as a wedge?

A deployable RTG would be cool. I know they aren't turned on and off so easily in real life, but one that couldn't generate power until it deployed fins would be kosher imho. Or along the same lines: a deployable radiator.

A deployable light. Perhaps a stick with either a forward-facing or self-illumination spotlight on the end. Apollo used one for the EVA work to/from the moon.

A deployable ladder. I often find myself floating around collecting science on orbit and would appreciate a stowable ladder in a wedge.

RCS thrusters would be less useful but seriously cool. They need not deploy. Simply opening the doors to expose/activate some lateral thrusters would be original.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Sandworm

[Daishi]

At risk of being painfully over-integrated: probe cores, kOS/Mechjeb cores (kOS > Mechjeb for me, but you could get a staring eye for Mechjeb, you know you want to), NFE stuff you mentioned (capacitor, mainly, perhaps a tiny RTG, though TBH unexposed RTGs are weird). Generally I often use US on landers, and like using them to keep the lander both compact and relatively "squat".

From stuff I use less but want to do more and I think some people would love, if we had "tall" wedges, then I suppose sticking a drill into one could be viable? Animated, like an antenna? I'd personally would probably just coo at the animation, but I'm sure people would actually use that.

Drills for surface sampling? That's probably more in Dmagic's line of work, he can pull off science parts far better than i ever could. Its totally up to him if he wants to revise his parts to make better use of the longer cores - but it would make sense for expensive equipment to be bigger, and further down the tech tree. We'll have a chat when i have an early build he can work and develop his parts with

A deployable RTG would be cool. I know they aren't turned on and off so easily in real life, but one that couldn't generate power until it deployed fins would be kosher imho. Or along the same lines: a deployable radiator.

A deployable light. Perhaps a stick with either a forward-facing or self-illumination spotlight on the end. Apollo used one for the EVA work to/from the moon.

Not sure about RTGs - not keen on them as power sources (although I've never really gone past Dres in the game to need them) but i could give it a go. I've never thought of them as inline service bay equipment, wouldn't they get too hot IRL? Lights would be cool though.

Could do some kind of a computer block that can stand in as a kOS\MJ part, will add that to the list.