B9 5.0 pre-release (with download)

[Guest]

Is there any way I could help you all with releasing B9? It's been way too long since it was updated, and it's my favorite spaceplane mod. I can test both on 64bit and 32bit (Win8 and Win7, respectively).

[K3-Chris]

Going over the older B9 IVAs and slotting in my new props

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The action group buttons on the right I'm not 100% sure about the arrangement off, but sadly 10 doesn't split into 3/4 even groups, just 2, 2x5 doesn't fit without adjusting the IVA's model, oh and those action group buttons are from ASET, I'll make my own version that looks a bit more B9.

Also going to replace one of those side brake buttons with an abort button.

[TronX33]

Going over the older B9 IVAs and slotting in my new props

Does this mean you are going to add an IVA for the Big cockpit that's designed for use with the HL fuselage section? Because right now it uses the big gray useless can IVS from the stock MK3 cockpit

[K3-Chris]

Does this mean you are going to add an IVA for the Big cockpit that's designed for use with the HL fuselage section? Because right now it uses the big gray useless can IVS from the stock MK3 cockpit

The Mk5? yeah I have plans for it, though not very soon, S3 is higher priority, especially with the HL sized cockpit coming along.

Problem with the mk5 is that it needs quite a lot of tweaking to work well, if left alone those tiny windows have near no visibility.

[falken]

Good to see the progress!

Is there any plans for there to be a B9 capsule? Just curious.

[JorusAton]

Will you be texturing all the parts that are missing textures? Many have just solid black for the heat shields, etc. I've always hoped someone would pretty those up :-)

[AntiMatter001]

The Mk5? yeah I have plans for it, though not very soon, S3 is higher priority, especially with the HL sized cockpit coming along.

Problem with the mk5 is that it needs quite a lot of tweaking to work well, if left alone those tiny windows have near no visibility.

uhm also there still is TouhouTorpedos Mk3 IVA which works well with the stock Mk3 and also the B9 Mk5.

i'm not sure if TT is still doing his mods or if he's still doing the "no curseforge" thing.

EDIT: nevermind. TT still doesn't want to release his mods because of squads decision on deleting spaceport. sorry

[K3-Chris]

Good to see the progress!

Is there any plans for there to be a B9 capsule? Just curious.

I'm always making progress, fast or slow, but I've been focusing on learning how to make my own props and similar small detail/backend stuff for a while now, that when assembled looks nice, but during is kinda impossible to showcase. We might made a pod especially with the HX series parts being focused on rockets/stations/station sized rockets

Will you be texturing all the parts that are missing textures? Many have just solid black for the heat shields, etc. I've always hoped someone would pretty those up :-)

Bac9 drew the heat tiles on the other parts by hand and it took him ages to do, I could copy-paste tiles between parts but the problem is the edges, and non square geometry etc, I can put heat-tiles on a cylinder or rectangle, but when we get to complex geometry it gets tricky, time consuming an well, hard. It's like bricks, can't just draw a line straight through the tiles when you get to an angle, you need special pieces and oblique angles etc:

uhm also there still is TouhouTorpedos Mk3 IVA which works well with the stock Mk3 and also the B9 Mk5.

i'm not sure if TT is still doing his mods or if he's still doing the "no curseforge" thing.

EDIT: nevermind. TT still doesn't want to release his mods because of squads decision on deleting spaceport. sorry

Yeah I know it works technically speaking, but the IVA doesn't line up with the external model, you can see the clipping geometry and all, same result as the stock Mk1 cockpit IVA on the S3 cockpit, you can apply any IVA to any part with kerbals, doesn't mean it fits.

Edited July 30, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Sufficient Anonymity]

...oh and those action group buttons are from ASET, I'll make my own version that looks a bit more B9...

I'd say they actually mesh pretty well, thanks to the blue accents within the existing IVA.

[Joshwoo70]

Why are we not getting a B9 release yet? *looks at watch*

[K3-Chris]

I'd say they actually mesh pretty well, thanks to the blue accents within the existing IVA.

Yeah but ASET is a absolutely massive props pack with props I mostly don't like the look off, or rather I like the look but it mostly doesn't mesh well with B9, B9 is gray and orange/blue and has scraped corners and baked normals and similar texture wizardry like baked ambient occlusion to make it feel like beaten up fairly realistic metal, ASET is whites and flat shiny surfaces with no ambient occlusion or grime/scratches at all making it feel pretty plastic and clean, I don't mind that look but it doesn't mesh with B9, I originally wanted to use a lot of ASET props but when I got those into the B9 IVAs next to stock props (black, clean shiny analog stuff) b9's "fake" props (gray, blue, orange, diagonal silkscreens semi-grime metallic) it was such a visual mess, look at the earlier pictures in the thread, so I decided to turn b9's "fake" props into real props and remove the stock and ASET props.

I'm using JSI aka RPM to make my props and using the ASET ones as reference for the "programming" part

Quick overview of my M27 changes, I finally figured out how to manipulate the original meshes of the existing B9 IVAs, (without murdering the normals and without re-building all the unity assemblies etc) my aim is to clean them up a bit, replace "fake" props with working props, slot in MFDs in ways that makes a bit more sense than the old setup, Mihara author of RPM slotted in MFDs around the B9 geometry basically because he could edit the props but not the models, giving him some hard restrictions, I can edit the models and props.

I've made some of my own props, but I'm going to make more, main ones are digital fuel gauges like ASET ones but more "B9" looking and I want horizontal ones as well as vertical. I need to make an abort button preferably with a cover similar to the ASET one as well. And as said action group buttons. I'm going to need some light buttons as well, adding toggle-able light levels to all the b9 IVAs.

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First and foremost I've moved the front seat, it's a bit hard to explain in words so picture time:

Orange is old head/vision cone, blue is new, reason for moving the seat is that the M27's main feature is it's visibility, the old seat position rendered the side windows pretty oblique up to the side, you can't see sideways and you can't see down through them, I replaced the 4 tiny MFDs in front of you with 2 larger ones and 2 small ones on the "corners" of the cage around you, missing some backing pieces for the buttons etc. Pedals and joystick added (might make an alternate joystick design that's less "airplane" and more "spaceship").

What do you think about the 5 "main function" buttons between the MFDs?

What do you think about the 5x2 action group buttons? Vs "3x3+1" on the rear seat? (Missing backing plate obviously).

What do you think about the MFDs in the corners? I put em there because you might want more than 2, but you can't really fit more than 2 in front of you without obscuring vision badly, though I'm considering putting 2 to the left and right of you, like it's done in elite kinda.

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Rear seat has 3 big MFDs instead of 4 small, at least one brake button to the side will be replaced by an abort button still where it was before. You can see the door handles on the doors that when double clicked makes you EVA (might make my own B9 looking version of those). Adding EVA ladders and doors to those doors on the external model as well, though sadly KSP sends you out the first door when you EVA, can't tell which of multiple doors to pick based on any criteria (as far as I can tell) but you can at least enter the pod through the side doors.

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Some pictures of the double click window angles, there are 3, forward, 45 degrees down, 90 degrees up. Basically you kerbal is mashing his face against the glass.

Why are we not getting a B9 release yet? *looks at watch*

We're working on it, but IRL ruined our "day after .24" release plans, all 3 of us got pretty major IRL:ism for a while, and lets face it, we're doing this on our free time, B9 is complex enough to make retooling it and updating it and making new content for it pretty time consuming, it's deceptively time consuming to make content like this, especially IVAs because it's not just modeling something, you need to make it work in an ergonomic sense, you have to be able to see and use it, the location of the kerbals inside the pod has to work on several levels etc.

And the excel spreadsheet Tav has of the costs and their needed adjustments... man I don't envy him.

Edited July 31, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Sufficient Anonymity]

@K3|Chris

That's very nice; it looks like it should be pretty easy to fly that IVA-only. My one criticism is that we've lost the central monitor in the front seat (dead centre always seemed like the logical place to put a PFD). Any chance of a HUD? Dodgy mockup included below:

[K3-Chris]

Yeah I'm adding toggle-able huds to all the IVAs, I just need to re-tool the HUD, I'm not a fan of the "stock" RPM one, it's overly busy with most of the information not labeled etc. I might start off by including the stock RPM HUD "UI" on my own props that slide/flipup/ flipdown/turn on/off etc. Then when done swamp in my own HUD "UI" on the same prop.

One center MFD is nicer in some ways but it means you either have to have 1, or 3, 3 doesn't really fit without making them smaller, also not sure about the angle, if you look down to frame the MFDs in the center of your vision they're straight-on, but as you can see if you zoom out and keep your vision straight forwards they look a bit angled (it's a fish-eye effect I'm not a fan off).

Edited July 31, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Sufficient Anonymity]

Yeah I'm adding toggle-able huds to all the IVAs, I just need to re-tool the HUD, I'm not a fan of the "stock" RPM one, it's overly busy with most of the information not labeled etc. I might start off by including the stock RPM HUD "UI" on my own props that slide/flipup/ flipdown/turn on/off etc.

One center MFD is nicer in some ways but it means you either have to have 1, or 3, 3 doesn't really fit without making them smaller, also not sure about the angle, if you look down to frame the MFDs in the center of your vision they're straight-on, but as you can see if you zoom out and keep your vision straight forwards they look a bit angled (it's a fish-eye effect I'm not a fan off).

A more user-friendly HUD would be very welcome - Vexcom has made some modifications that might be worth looking at if you're looking for inspiration - it's still pretty busy but the information seems better labelled than stock (at least, it does to me).

[K3-Chris]

Oh and to outline my upcoming plans:

HL EVA + IVA: external needs some refinements, IVA as well, some other tidying up work needed

S3 EVA + IVA: it's a pretty big job, might miss 5.0

Mk5: I need to re-start my work on the modified EVA and added IVA for it, not happy with how far it drifted from the original look, I need to keep the balance closer to the current look, I basically converted it to a generic plane cockpit, not happy with it. (Defiantly missing 5.0).

S2+Mk2 Crew tanks: small polish pass needed

M27 Cockpit: some additional props/prop placement, small tweaks

Mk2 Cockpit: short term: prop tweaks, long term:

Crude overdraw, blue = windows, purple = potentially removed pillars/window frames.

make front visibility better by raising the front seat a bit, adjust the window by add an additional piece of glass front center instead of the current metal behind the hud, make the HUD toggle-able, the goal is to be able to see at least the end of the runway when horizontal at the start of it, needs tweak of the external model to accommodate that additional piece of glass. Props will be moved up/rotated up to make them more visible.

S2 Cockpit: similar to the Mk2, hopefully I don't need to modify it too much but forwards visibility is an issue, some of that can be solved by moving the kerbals up a bit but their huge heads with their vision halfway along their head makes kerbals basically fit in IVAs like a human being with a pope-hat. Or a human with their eyes on their chest.

This area:

Is a problem, extending the windows down there would be pretty ugly on the outside though.

Is a bit of an issue, but extending the windows forwards on the external model would be pretty bad for the look, at times I wish you could "cheat" and disconnect the external model and internal IVA a bit, if you make a kerbal's head just clear the ceiling of something proportioned like a real plane their center of vision is about in-line with the center of the dashboard, there are only 2 solutions really, make their heads (and internal ceiling) actually protrude outside the external model, you can't tell from the IVA that's the case and it doesn't look weird because we expect them to have human proportions, but it's strictly speaking cheating, second solution is extend the windows downwards until the kerbals have proper vision, but then you basically have windows going from the top to the center on a 2m sized cockpit, neither solution is perfect, one makes the IVA extend outside the EVA and the other makes the EVA less nice looking.

Squad are big believers in the first solution btw, most of the stock IVAs can't fit inside the external models at all, and that mod Mk2 IVA basically puts the kerbal's head halfway through the canopy.

Edited July 31, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Alewx]

Heya Chris, I know it might be a bit far too early to ask, but would the new B9 version have compatibility with FAR?

[Sufficient Anonymity]

Heya Chris, I know it might be a bit far too early to ask, but would the new B9 version have compatibility with FAR?

Previous versions have, and I'm pretty sure I recall Bac9 saying that the new structural parts fly like bricks with FAR, so that sounds about right xD

[Alewx]

Previous versions have, and I'm pretty sure I recall Bac9 saying that the new structural parts fly like bricks with FAR, so that sounds about right xD

That is cool

I'm really excited about that.

[K3-Chris]

Yeah old current and future versions of B9 are tested against FAR (which should make it work in NEAR as well as far as I understand it) pretty sure all 3 of us use it, we test against stock as well obviously to ensure it works as well as it can.

Took a brave pill today and spent 3h~ turning this:

(External shell only, no internal geometry)

Into this:

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Internal geometry for the IVA, internal geometry inside the visor.

The subsonic windows (front windows usually behind the visor) don't have heat tiles around them because the visor deflects the heat during supersonic flight and re-entry, just don't lower the visor during re-entry, ok?

Still WIP obviously, needs a fair bit of finessing, later UV mapping and texturing, but that's the easy part. External texture is just a re-map of the current S3's texture, will make my own more detailed version, external windows will be opaque from the outside obviously, just made em transparent in modo to show the interior from the outside.

Edited August 2, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Eskandare]

Looking great, Chris. I look forward to its release.

[ZewelVonLelek]

nice cockpit

[Tidus Klein]

oww man how much longer? your killing me with all this awesomeness!

[Contagano]

Looking awesome, cant wait for release! Keep up the good work guys!

[dreadicon]

I am still hoping for a B9 update... It's gotten to the point where I cant live with or without it... :S I run 30+ mods, which run quickly and flawlessly together, just a couple quick tweaks is all they need. But add B9 in and suddenly I spend 10+ hours before I get it all running (period), and still run into broken parts, random occasional crashes, and numerous issues all over. Yet, without B9, the game just isnt complete. Spaceplanes practically just dont exist without it once you've experienced b9.... Please, I'm not asking for new features; I just want b9 updated for engines, fuselage, and cargo bays... (not that I dont love new features....) It's been so long, and it's finally just in need of a complete overhaul. I'd be willing to help overhaul configs and parts if time is tight... been doing it myself for quite some time

[sumghai]

Yeah old current and future versions of B9 are tested against FAR (which should make it work in NEAR as well as far as I understand it) pretty sure all 3 of us use it, we test against stock as well obviously to ensure it works as well as it can.

Took a brave pill today and spent 3h~ turning this:

http://i.imgur.com/hXHspsy.png

(External shell only, no internal geometry)

Into this:

http://imgur.com/a/3bL30

Internal geometry for the IVA, internal geometry inside the visor.

The subsonic windows (front windows usually behind the visor) don't have heat tiles around them because the visor deflects the heat during supersonic flight and re-entry, just don't lower the visor during re-entry, ok?

Still WIP obviously, needs a fair bit of finessing, later UV mapping and texturing, but that's the easy part. External texture is just a re-map of the current S3's texture, will make my own more detailed version, external windows will be opaque from the outside obviously, just made em transparent in modo to show the interior from the outside.

Way too cool!

Just so you know, you can use JSITransparentPod PartModule from the RPM plugin to make internals viewable from outside through windows.