Science in Sandbox Mode

[chaos_forge]

I play almost exclusively in sandbox mode, and lately I've begun to get frustrated with a certain feature:

When you activate a science part in sandbox mode, all you get is a message saying something along the lines of "With the R&D facility closed, this is useless." This behavior is frustrating, both because it breaks my feeling of immersion, and because it takes away some of the feeling of accomplishment. After getting all the way to Duna/Laythe/whatever, I'm not allowed to do science on it! Now, what I'm asking for isn't the inclusion of the tech tree in career mode. All I want is to be able to see the same science text the career mode sees when you do an experiment, not that annoying "The R&D facility is closed" message.

The way I see it, sandbox shouldn't be a mode with less functionality, but rather one where you have unlimited money/reputation/science. How it should work in sandbox is, the science facility should be open, but every node would cost 0 science/be already unlocked. Currently, this isn't much of a problem because I can just start a career save and give myself 999,999 science, but when the money/reputation mechanics hit, giving us more reasons to not want to play career, this problem should be addressed.

Thoughts?

[CaptainKipard]

I don't see a problem here. Why are you trying to collect science in sandbox anyway?

[Frank_G]

For roleplaying reasons of course. And yes, mr chaos forge... i am totally with you on this point.

I only play career at the moment because those demotivating science messages are far from satisfying. I´d might enjoy playing career mode with those new features, but in general i like to fiddle around with stuff as it comes to my head. I have already posted this in another thread – It would be really nice to gain science and have the possibility to view your science reports in the science center. The tech-tree could remain closed, as it has no need at all in sandbox.

[Dodgey]

Immersion, I would love to be able to do science without having to go through career mode

[chaos_forge]

Because it's fun. I don't know about you, but I put science parts on my vessels (thermometers, etc) long before they actually had a use. Just because I want to have all the parts unlocked at the beginning doesn't mean I don't want to do science.

Edit: wow, double ninja'd

[Helix935]

hmm i always thought that originally Squad didn't have science in sandbox so to get people to do career mode instead of only sandbox because they would want to get science

[Frank_G]

Why take science out of a space game? And those players who like advancing and developing will play career for sure. I will of course play career mode again, when .24 is out.

But non of both sides should be enforced... Play in the sandbox, but this time: NO SHOVEL! Makes no sense to me.

[Sinner2784]

as a quick workaround

start a career then close the game and modify persistent.sfs

set set the value sci = 54.1225 (number may differs) to what you want

start the game and unlock all techs

[chaos_forge]

hmm i always thought that originally Squad didn't have science in sandbox so to get people to do career mode instead of only sandbox because they would want to get science

This is a possibility, but moving forward I would like that behavior to be removed.

as a quick workaround

start a career then close the game and modify persistent.sfs

set set the value sci = 54.1225 (number may differs) to what you want

start the game and unlock all techs

I know that currently I can just start a career save and give myself 999,999 science, but when the money/reputation mechanics hit, giving us more reasons to not want to play career, this problem should be addressed.

[Yarrula]

I agree that science should be available in sandbox mode. I want to use it as a personal scoring mechanism, to see how effective that mission/design etc. was. I'd also want the science log open in the R&D building so I have a record of what I've done and where I've gone. Having 40 flags spread across the system is the only way I can keep track of such things now.

In my opinion, Sandbox should have everything that career mode has, exactly, right down to reputation, budget, or anything else. Just add a toggle so I can choose to play with the options that I feel like playing with that day. I should have access to all the toys.

[BudgetHedgehog]

I don't think people quite understand OP.. he's not asking for the addition of Science to sandbox, but just replacing the demotivational results ("This is useless without opening the R&D Centre" etc) with the actual career Science results.

[helaeon]

I have everything unlocked in the tech tree and like 40k vanity science. Whole reason I do science is to see how big of a number I can get and see the funny stuff that people have come up with in the community science file.

I say sandbox should absolutely pull the science description from the science file even if the science you get is zero.

[Twreed87]

Not only would it be nice to have the text when you perform the experiment, but having the list of accomplishments in the R&D facility would be nice too. A list of where you've been and what you've done, even if you didn't NEED to do it.

[nohelmet]

I totally agree with the original poster and Twreed87. Even though Sandbox mode doesn't have the tech tree, it's still nice to be able to roleplay science and get the messages. I'd also like to see the points accumulate, even though they wouldn't serve any purpose there.

[magico13]

I almost never use Sandbox mode, but I totally agree that the messages on the science equipment are annoying when I do. I also agree that the tracking things should be open as well. I might be tempted to play in sandbox again if they did that, simply because it would be way more fun. Why shouldn't I be allowed to send a totally awesome ship made from 3.75 meter parts to Duna for a year with all of the science equipment and actually roleplay getting science? Why would the R&D center not care, even though the tech tree isn't a thing. Also being able to see my expansion outward. To me, sandbox isn't "you suddenly can do everything" its "you still have to learn the ropes, but we're going to give you all the tools".

[Mitchz95]

I agree with the OP.

[NERVAfan]

I agree with the OP.

Me too. I definitely want to be able to see the messages and keep the record of where I've done science, regardless of the lack of points.

[MKI]

I also think you should have science reports in Sandbox. there also would be no need for the tech tree, in the RD building.

I personally believe Squad didn't give science reports for Career at this stage because career is not finished. So giving it exclusive rights to career gives some incentive in playing it. The rewards, even for plays who can fly without all the parts, are the reports.

Once more of the career base gameplay, such as contracts, reputations, and money are implimented then i would believe they should change the Reports to be in sandbox too. As it does help with roleplaying and exploration, just without the constraints of career tech. Once the other things are implimented, career would be more about the actual goals of contracts, and getting more tech, rather than exploration of the science reports, which IMO are more of a side amusement rather than a goal.

[Amaroq]

Count me one more in full agreement with the O.P.-- tech tree off, science on!

[NeoMorph]

The main reason I play sandbox more is due to some mods not supporting the science unlocks. The list is getting shorter over time so eventually I think I will have all my favourite mods supported by career and then I will probably migrate.

But science in career mode? I'm definitely in three minds about it. On one hand it will increase immersion. Oh the other hand it would be a message saying "Woot, you did science" and that's it. On the gripping hand you can probably simulate the science yourself.

[MKI]

Currently without the funny messages and some simple tech progression there is no difference between playing career and sandbox.

The messages really are the main reason to play career at this point in time. The only reason i believe the Dev's do not give it in sandbox is because its one of the reasons to PLAY career. Especially at this point. Maybe in the future, you might be able to check out some science messages for the lulz in sandbox. But i do not think we should get it any time soon.

[Nemrav]

and yet another one of these threads........

*groan*

edit : the reason for no science me thinks is that having it in sandbox would be a spoiler, you didn't do anything for it...

And if you use the tiny science instruments then they do give you a display of information, and you can transmit stuff with antennas/dishes.....

problem solved

Edited April 8, 2014 by Nemrav

[Tery215]

This is a possibility, but moving forward I would like that behavior to be removed.

[quote name=Frank

I know that currently I can just start a career save and give myself 999,999 science, but when the money/reputation mechanics hit, giving us more reasons to not want to play career, this problem should be addressed.

are the quotes still working?

to say, you could simply change the values for money and reputation so as to solve this

[Doctor Axel]

The way I see it, you should be able to turn off/on both Science and Money/Rep. So 'Sandbox Mode' wouldn't exist anymore per se, but you'd get exactly the same thing by creating a new save with Science and Money/Rep turned off.

Or you could have a 'Career' save with Science and Money/Rep, or with just Science, or with just Money/Rep.

In any event, the total Science you've obtained should still be visible no matter if you're spending it in a tech tree or not, as a means of progress tracking.

[comicbstudeo]

i agree with Axel i hope you have settings and stuff so you can turn on/off science, money etc instead of just default sandbox or career